Khorns and SS gear

[Effster]

Hello everyone.My '78 khorns just arrived on friday.It took all weekend to re-arrange the living room to get 2 good corners about 16 feet apart.I must say,,it was well worth the effort!!!!These monsters are replacing a pair of '95 boston acoustic lynnfield 500l's.While exceptional speakers,,they just dont have any nuts at a mere 86db.I always found myself winding the preamp knob way past where most would listen.Klipsch has saved the day.These are being fed with an aragon,,not some cheesy sony a/v reciever.It is very true,,you get out what goes in.I can kinda understand about going with a tube amp of low watts,,but for us true rock and roll nuts,,you need some power!!!My question is now to tweak this puppies in.I need to seal them to the walls,,that i know.Maybe mod the x-overs?Dynamat the horns?How about plywood under the cabinet themselves.It is on some thick carpet.Anyhow,,its great to be here.Ive learned alot before I purchased these by reading on here.Im now hooked!!!!Klipsch IS Music,,,even if it means my ears will bleed.Thanks for any input......Jeff from NY

[JohnA]

You need to listen to the horns unmodified for a while before you jump off into the pit of tweaks. I'd say 6 months.

That said, you should be looking for K-55-V squawker drivers with solder terminals; they have more and smoother output from 4k to 6k Hz. Next would be flush mounting the tweeters with Klipsch "Z" brackets from the late 90s K-horns and Belles. Besides the brackets you'll have to enlarge the tweeter opening in the upper cabinet. After that I'd be looking at damping the squawker and tweeter horns. I cannot hear any difference due to damping the tweeter, but some can. Finally, you might try replacing the tweeter caps and woofer inductor with premium parts like Solen or Hovland. I replaced the 13 uF squawker cap in my Type AAs with Hovland Musicaps and couldn't hear any difference for my $120. I like the ALK crossovers I have. They're made with all the best stuff and designed for a nearly flat impedance curve. The ALK xover changes the voicing somewhat, but the results are surprising clarity. In my opinion, they're worth every dime.

John

[WMcD]

I think you're going there already. But let me suggest you take a good look at where the bass horn intersects the wall. Get some 1/4 or 1/2 inch weather stripping foam from Home Depot to ensure a good seal.

Gil

[Effster]

Thank you guys.Tomm night on my way home I will stop and get some weather stripping.That will be the first tweak.What about cutting the diodes out of the tweeter? Now that its getting cold out,,,its inside play time....hehehe

[JCturboT]

hmmm...a guy named Jeff with a newly acquired set of Klipschorns-Freaky!!

Seriously though,congratulations on your recent purchase.I'm sure you'll love 'em.

So how'd they sound with your Aragon? I myself am (anxiously)

waiting for the repair of my Yamaha Solid state amplifier to see how they sound with a quality SS piece as I have been running them off of a Scott tube amp as of late.

Comparing the tube to solid state so far its ALL tube-the soild state amps I have tried just have no life although they aren't quality pieces by any means.I will be borrowing my brothers Nakamichi PA-7 amp later in the week and I will post on that experience after an extended listen.

Jeff

[Effster]

Hey jeff.I saw a few of your posts.Your in nassau county.Im in smithtown.Some cold weekend when theres nothing else to do,,come on by and take a listen.Ive spend years upgrading the electronics looking for that slice of heaven.Its just most other speakers just dont have any guts to em.I almost upgraded to some classe` gear,,lookin at 600 watts a channel.The khorn way was WAY cheaper and gave me the rock and roll sound that I never had.It does seem that they like very good gear,,not some "bestbuy" reciever.Now that its cold out,,I will be inside tweaking these bad boyz.Now im also thinking about swapping out my rears for klipschs also.Anyhow,,the door is open,,anytime you want to stop in,,drop me an email.Jeff

[JCturboT]

Jeff,

Thanks for the offer but you must have have me confused with another member.

I live in Massachusetts just about an hour west of Boston so it wouldn't be a short trip

Jeff

[Effster]

So sorry

[steve]

Hey Jeff

I have '82 KHorns..bought new..haven't changed a thing about them except snipping the tweeter filter wire like you mentioned earlier..of course I waited 18 years to do that! I have AK crossovers, and have been pleased with them. I ran SS gear until about 3 years ago, when I got an SET tube amp (8 watts per side) and never looked back! And I listen to rock and roll- as I'm sure you do..loud..and I never get the volume control past 4 (on a scale of 10) on the preamp (ok, maybe pushing 5 on low level recordings) and the place is rocking! Bear in mind, ONE WATT will drive these speakers to 104 DB@ 1 meter (approx 3 feet) so you really don't need 600+ watts! Really! Like John said, listen to them awhile..make no changes immediately. Believe me, you'll have plenty of time to drive yourself nuts later!

Congrats on the KHorn purchase!

Steve

[Triode Pete]

Effster,

I agree completely with Steve! 1 watt is a lot of power with K-horns! Probably during most listening sessions, your'e in the milliwatt range (< 1 watt). That's where tubes are vastly superior over solid state. Tubes, especially triodes, are both naturally linear & distortion free, without needing 15 gain stages and negative feedback. Solid state performance greatly improves as power output increases (with good amps).

I'm not bashing solid state amps...they work great with less efficient speaker designs, such as Maggies, Martin Logans, etc.

I used to have SS-Mac amps with my K-horns. I thought they sounded pretty good. Then I got a pair of homebrew 300B SET's. Wow, what a difference. No looking back! My current favorites are my 2A3 SET's...only 3.5 watts per channel...plenty of power. With the windows & doors shut & the pre-amp volume @ 12 o'clock, you can clearly hear the K-horns singing across the street!

I've tried the K-horns with a variety of amps (tubed 2A3 push-pull parallel, tubed 1960's Fisher 500C, Yamaha SS, variety of Mac SS, etc.) and I can honestly say that Tubes Rule with K-horns.

My $0.02.

Enjoy your K-horns,

Pete

BTW - I'm in Nassau County

[Mike82]

Effster:

I'm also in agreement with Steve and Pete. I use the Korneff 45 amp, which has an output of ~1 1/2 - 2 watts and they work just fine. I'm also of the opinion that s-s and Khorns is not a good combo. Even my vintage Fisher 400 (tubed) receiver sounds better than the current s-s gear.

[edster00]

Hi Jeff,

Welcome to the BB! I guess I might as well jump in here and recommend tubes also.

I did try many types of SS gear with my Klipsch speakers, vintage pieces from Mac, Yamaha, and Sansui. My favorite SS amp is now a 25wpc class A zero negative feeback amp from Monarchy audio, the SM-70. I used the SM-70(s) with K-horns (Forte's, Cornwalls and Belles also) running one in stereo mode then got another one and ran them mono-blocked...great little amps for not a lot of money.

Then I started on the tube path beginning with a 60wpc Jolida 801A and gradually moving to lower and lower powered tubes while steadily increaing my enjoyment of the music. I am currently running a pair of 3.5 watt mono-blocks and I couldn't be happier with them.

Ad others have said, listen to them awhile and get used to how they sound before you start modding them up. Do use the weather stripping to seal the bass bin to the wall, and plywood under them won't hurt either.

[Effster]

Hi guys.Im not disputing how great tubes can sound with horns,,its just I've spend alot of time and money in the gear that I currently own.I dont think you can compare the aragon to some cheesy yamaha or nakimachi circuit city reciever.Its night and day on electronics.Right now Im just enjoying the new found sound of these bad boyz.Yes the aragon may be way too overpowered,,but the rest of my front end is first class.I think that keeping the noise floor down is the key,as teh horns will reveal all of it.I have done the foam stripping to the wall,,and snipped both diodes also takin the screw out from the tweeter coil.Seems to have tweaked up the top end abit.A nice winter project will be building al's crossovers.Thanks for all the input,,great to have a nice group here for help and ideas.Jeff

[j-malotky]

Hi All

Are any of you Tubies running tube amps in a multi channel HT setup??? How loud can a 3.5 watt SET really go???

I have been running SS Mac for years and have been very very happy. I am a component guy and have each channel powered with its own mono block. I recently sold my MAC 7200 amps to finance the finishing of my HT.

I use my room for both 2 Ch and HT.

My plan all along has been to replace my main amps with Tubes in the comming year. Probably will run identical monoblock on my center channel as well to match the mains.

Will a 3 to 5 watt SET provide enough power for HT???? Honestly, I probably listen to HT louder than Music. Or should I forget SET and go with a 30-40 watt tube monoblock for an all arround amp? Or if all else fails do the best of both worlds, keep high power SS for HT and SET for listening?

Anybody else here from the Milwaukee WI are who can help me audition a pair of SET's on my Khorns???

Any other ideas, or guidance?

Thanks,

JM

[mobile homeless]

J, Based on the description, I would say ultra low power SET is not for you. Simple and easy. There are a bevy of tube amps out there. I think if anyone is in to home theatre in the same system equally with music should just bypass SET amplification as I dont honestly think it is what you are looking for in sound reproduction. I do know some people with SET amps running their home theater but they are in the minority. I find most people very into HT sounds want HT pyrotechnics with the sort of movies that a typical SET amp is really not useful for. Why have a SET amp produce cannon fire and Pearl Harbor explosions? PErhaps if you did have separate amplification for HT and music, it might work. But for an all in one, I would not say it's optimal.

kh

[j-malotky]

Kelly

Thanks for the feedback. That is the way I am leaning, running separate amps for HT and 2 CH. In my setup I have the rack space and the ambition to make this work.

I do want to try SETs. My room has great acoustics for 2 CH, room disapears even with my noisy flat NADs I am running now in the intrum. If I remember your description was "grainey".

The only tubes I have heard were MC60's, and to be honest, I think they sounded the same as the 7200 SS.

I really want to go to the next levil of 2CH. I can see it now. Replacing my MC 36 with a tube preamp and getting my old Thorens 166 out of the mothballs.

JM

[steve]

Gotta go with Kelly on this one, 100%..HT and 2 channel don't go together..different animals for pure enjoyment of each..each application requires different equipment..would you 4 wheel in your Lambourghini?? Do the quarter mile in your CJ-7??

Steve

[Jim Cornell]

Did you guys miss him saying hes ganna cut the center out of the tweeters!

WOW thats new to me! Or what does he mean by diode?

Im not even sure if it would stay together if that was to be done!

The k-77-ms are fine the way they are, id leave them alone!

Jim

[j-malotky]

Steve

I agree it is difficult to do both 2CH and HT, but not impossible. Since I have resigned the notion fo finding an AMP to do both properly, the ONLY shared components I have, when I am finished, will be my Khorns and my room.

My room was designed for my Khorns. The Khorns and the room perform flawlessly together giving awesome 2 CH imaging, so I have conquered the largest part of my battle.

The rest of my components are completely separate. My listening sources go into my Mac preamp and my HT sources go into my Lexicon.

As you all know Khorns are awesome listening speakers. And an all Heritage HT creates an unbelievable sounding movie environment unlike any other HT I have ever heard. So why not try to combine them?

JM

[mobile homeless]

I am fighting a losing battle in here as each of my hopes throws a TV in the 2 Channel! heh... I still think there is something wrong combining the two although sometimes it cant be avoided. There is something about a big TV staring you in the face that is depressing whether you are listening to Sonny Rollins, Hendrix, Glen Gould, or a yelping Hasil Adkins! It screams Ranch House! Ok, enough blather. I love movies but have never liked HT with my music. And the two types of systems dont seem to blend too well.

Perhaps the only compromise would be to use the same speakers with two separate systems driving them. Still, I would rather have a whole separate HT on the other side of the room so the TV would not be squating like Sasquatch in the middle of the soundfield.

kh