Poor sound quality RF7

[AndrewJackson]

Hi everyone,

 

I need your opinion on why my HT system sounds so dull and boring. I have RF7ii, RC64, 4 RP-502S, 4 RP-500SA, R-115SW. Running on Pioneer Elite VSX-LX502 and Outlaw 5 channels. I am confused because these are all expensive, top Klipsch Reference speakers. I ran MCACC auto calibration but it doesn't sound any better. I used to have RF82ii, RC62 and R-112SW on Pioneer SC-89 and it sounds much better. What am I missing here?

[willland]

@AndrewJackson,

 

Well, I don't think a power shortage is the problem.  Maybe the preamp section quality in the Pioneer is lacking.  Maybe not a good match(voltage gain/sensitivity) with the Pioneer and Outlaw.  Maybe Auto EQ is a bit out of whack.

 

Bill

 

[Youthman]

Could be a lot of reasons including room acoustics. Do you have acoustic treatment? Do you have a lot of hard surfaces (walls and flooring)?

 

The speakers you have are fantastic and far from dull or boring. In fact, they are more on the lively side.

 

If I had to guess your Pioneer might be what is holding your system back from performing like you want it.

[wuzzzer]

How new is your setup to you?

Has it always sounded bad to you?

Is it just the RF7s that sound bad?

[AndrewJackson]

Besides having an 18 ft tall ceiling, hugh curtains and open area of family room, I think Youthman has a point on the Pioneer. I suspect ever since I switch from Pioneer SC-89 with MCACC Pro to this Pioneer VSC-LX503, sound quality is holding back from the speakers. There is no way an RF7 and RC64 could sound less lively than RF82ii and RC82ii. I am thinking about getting a Denon or Marantz. Is sound processing that different from one brand to another? 

[willland]

5 hours ago, AndrewJackson said:

I suspect ever since I switch from Pioneer SC-89 with MCACC Pro to this Pioneer VSC-LX503, sound quality is holding back from the speakers.

You pretty much went from a $3000.00 flagship AVR to a $1000.00 upper mid level AVR.  There "better" be an improvement for that price difference.  Though most $1000.00 AVRs perform pretty well.

 

5 hours ago, AndrewJackson said:

Besides having an 18 ft tall ceiling, hugh curtains and open area of family room

Yeah, high ceiling not good.  Curtains good.  Open room not the best.  You probably have a reflection issue as well as a suck out thing going on.

 

5 hours ago, AndrewJackson said:

There is no way an RF7 and RC64 could sound less lively than RF82ii and RC82ii.

Agree.

 

5 hours ago, AndrewJackson said:

 I am thinking about getting a Denon or Marantz. Is sound processing that different from one brand to another? 

Try fixing some of the acoustic issues first before jumping brands.

 

What model Outlaw Audio amp do you have?

 

Bill

[ricktate]

Have you checked to make sure the jumper bars are tight??? I know it sounds crazy but I have seen many that were loose. Its the first thing I check now when going to help friends. With all those models you should be anything but DULL ….maybe set the levels manually.... I had to do that that because auto set up sounded like crap. I have an Integra AVR which allows you to do tone and volume manually which I dont think Denon does. 

[AndrewJackson]

I use Outlaw 5000. Front/Center/Surround Back on Outlaw and the rest on Pioneer LX503. Probably not power issue since Outlaw is cool all the times but Pioneer is really hot while driving only surround side and 4 Atmos. I have a SPL meter but I used MCACC instead.

[wuzzzer]

1 hour ago, AndrewJackson said:

I use Outlaw 5000. Front/Center/Surround Back on Outlaw and the rest on Pioneer LX503. Probably not power issue since Outlaw is cool all the times but Pioneer is really hot while driving only surround side and 4 Atmos. I have a SPL meter but I used MCACC instead.

 

Can you please answer the questions that I and ricktate have asked?  We're trying to help you out.

[AndrewJackson]

2 hours ago, wuzzzer said:

 

Can you please answer the questions that I and ricktate have asked?  We're trying to help you out.

I am sorry. I am new to the forum. I just tried to combine all answers in one reply. 

 

12 hours ago, ricktate said:

Have you checked to make sure the jumper bars are tight??? I know it sounds crazy but I have seen many that were loose. Its the first thing I check now when going to help friends. With all those models you should be anything but DULL ….maybe set the levels manually.... I had to do that that because auto set up sounded like crap. I have an Integra AVR which allows you to do tone and volume manually which I dont think Denon does. 

I used banana jacks. It sounds like that before I used banana jacks.  I don't know to do manual setup. I can try if you could give me a link on how to do it.

 

13 hours ago, willland said:

You pretty much went from a $3000.00 flagship AVR to a $1000.00 upper mid level AVR.  There "better" be an improvement for that price difference.  Though most $1000.00 AVRs perform pretty well.

 

Yeah, high ceiling not good.  Curtains good.  Open room not the best.  You probably have a reflection issue as well as a suck out thing going on.

 

Agree.

 

Try fixing some of the acoustic issues first before jumping brands.

 

What model Outlaw Audio amp do you have?

 

Bill

I regret having sold SC-91 for only $250 to upgrade to this AVR to have 4 Atmos. I used Outlaw 5000. 5 channels.

[ricktate]

The banana jacks are not the  connecting bars. The bars are under the jacks and they are held tight by them but they come loose.     

[ricktate]

Could also be wires come loose on inside of the speaker. Out of phase speakers.....could be a lot of stuff need more info to help you.

 

[AndrewJackson]

4 hours ago, ricktate said:

The banana jacks are not the  connecting bars. The bars are under the jacks and they are held tight by them but they come loose.     

I used banana jacks for receiver. On speaker end, it is direct wiring. 

 

4 hours ago, ricktate said:

Could also be wires come loose on inside of the speaker. Out of phase speakers.....could be a lot of stuff need more info to help you.

 

Could be out of phase. I remember MCACC Pro was quite long and in detail while MCACC on LX503 is very brief.

[KlipschFish]

It's fairly important to understand what ricktate is trying to convey. The jumpers are usually flat pieces of metal (or a short pair of wire) that 'connect' the posts in back where you connect your speaker wire. You may have 4 posts. An 'upper' and 'lower' set. These sets are connected to each other by jumpers. So you can connect your (1) speaker wire to the posts, on the speaker, whether it is a banana plug or a bare wire etc., and both the upper end driver and lower end drivers will all be connected.

This is a simple look see and tighten. The red and black knobs that you put your banana plug or bare ended wire into is what you tighten. I have had to do it when I experienced symptoms that you describe. The jumpers seemed tightly connected but were not.

It may have nothing to do with your problem, however, IF those jumpers, or even one of them is loose, you will not hear any upper end from that speaker. Or I suppose no lower end depending on which set of posts you have plugged your speaker wire into. That alone in many cases can lead to a very 'muffled' sound.

Again, it may not apply as you have a very large system overall... but it is a good point to know.

[AndrewJackson]

On 5/6/2020 at 1:42 PM, KlipschFish said:

It's fairly important to understand what ricktate is trying to convey. The jumpers are usually flat pieces of metal (or a short pair of wire) that 'connect' the posts in back where you connect your speaker wire. You may have 4 posts. An 'upper' and 'lower' set. These sets are connected to each other by jumpers. So you can connect your (1) speaker wire to the posts, on the speaker, whether it is a banana plug or a bare wire etc., and both the upper end driver and lower end drivers will all be connected.

This is a simple look see and tighten. The red and black knobs that you put your banana plug or bare ended wire into is what you tighten. I have had to do it when I experienced symptoms that you describe. The jumpers seemed tightly connected but were not.

It may have nothing to do with your problem, however, IF those jumpers, or even one of them is loose, you will not hear any upper end from that speaker. Or I suppose no lower end depending on which set of posts you have plugged your speaker wire into. That alone in many cases can lead to a very 'muffled' sound.

Again, it may not apply as you have a very large system overall... but it is a good point to know.

I've checked. Metal plate was tightly secured between 2 binding posts. Thank you for all advice. I'm looking for a Denon receiver or a seperate AV processor. I hope it will sound different then.

[K5SS]

I know this isn’t a popular opinion around here but might it be that you were expecting a night and day difference, for the upgrade?

 

I just think people under estimate the RC-62 and the RF-82. I’ve gone from a RC-62 ii to a RC-64 and there definitely wasn’t a night and day difference.

 

Like has already mentioned, I would focus on room treatments like rugs, acoustic panels first.

 

I would then invest in a pair of kick a*s subwoofers before I swapped out receivers. I’ve had good experience with Pioneer Elite receivers. I do agree that Audyssey beats out MCACC on the auto calibration settings but you have plenty of tweaking options in that Pioneer.

 

People tend to parrot what others say on forums and sometimes that’s not always the best advice for YOU.

 

With that said, RF-7’s are a step up from the RF-82’s, no arguments here, I just think it’s hard for audio gear to live up to what people have read online, in real world rooms, especially rooms with 18’ ceilings.

 

Awesome system, BTW and welcome to the forum!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Wojtek]

I'll chime in here for a bit.

I recently upgraded my old Harman AVR340 to a Denon X4100W, and experiencing a similar issue. Despite my new receiver being a decade+ newer and having more power, I seem to prefer the sound of the old one; it sounds much more crisp and detailed. That's the only thing that changed in my setup, so yes, it appears just the internal EQ processing of different brands can make a difference.

 

If you wanted to rule out room issues, take your 2 fronts and the receiver into a smaller bedroom and set it up there. That would tell you if your open-space and high ceilings are making the sound worse, and confirm if your new receiver is fine.

[VikingKlipschman]

i have Rf 7 mk1, Rc 64 , spl120w, r-41m, r41sa, with at the moment denon avr-x1400h

I know the amp is too small but in my small apartment I have great sound, clear tweeter, tight mid range and superb bass

I love my RF7 mk1