erikjohn Posted November 19, 2002 Share Posted November 19, 2002 Well I just picked up my LaScala's from Qman last night. He was sad to see them go, as anyone would be. I told him they were going to a good home and would have plenty of good company. Thanks Q. Anyway I hooked them up on the front B channels and stuck them in fromt of the Khorns for now. I was doing a test between the Khorns and the LaScalas and I noticed a big difference is the sound. The Lascala's have the type AL network and the Khorns have the AK-2 network. The Ak-2 network is a major improvment over the AL network IMO. The highs seem more detailed. The LaScala's seem to be a bit muddy compared to the Khorns. Can I do anything to the networks in the LaScala's to help open up the horns? I do not want to buy a set of ALK's, I am just wondering if changing some of the components in the existing crossover will help improve the sound. My first mod to them will probably be to re-wire the entire speakers, including the crossovers with new wire. I remember a mod about doing something like removing the screw form the inductor core and something else. Can someone please tell me what this exact mod was and tell me if it will help open these things up? Thanks agian Q. BTW I told you I was thinking of putting the black veneer on them. I changed my mind, I am going to refinish them. I will probably do the same as I did to my Heresey's which came in an unfinished birch. I stained them with a light oak stain and applied about three coats of Poly on them. EJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted November 19, 2002 Share Posted November 19, 2002 Erik, When you first heard mine, they also had the AL networks in them. Now that you have a pair, you should come by and hear mine with the ALK's and 511B's. I think you will notice a huge difference between them! As for upgrading the networks, you could build the ALK's yourself (around $220 in parts) or try building the simpler A networks. I believe there is a schematic floating around for those somewhere on the Updated Speakers board. Let me know if you want to swing by and hear mine again... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikjohn Posted November 19, 2002 Author Share Posted November 19, 2002 Mike, Yeh I will have to listen to yours agian regardless. Also I have all of the diagrams to build the crossovers. I even requested catalogs from all of the places that Al gets his parts from so I am go to go all I need to do is start ordering. I am not sure yet if I am going to build any yet though. I like the way the khorns sound so I don't think I need to mess with them. I will make some adjustments to the LaScala's to see if I can get the tweeters to open up. I will just have to expirement alittle to see what I can live with. The highs just don't seem to sparkle at all in the LaScala's. The mids and the tight Bass are great sounding. I have been throwing around the idea in my head of installing squakers from Khorns/LaScala's in my Cornwalls also. This would require a modification to the back of the cabinet and a crossover change. If I did this then I would have perfectly matching speakers all the way around. So many things I would like to do, and so little time. Kinda like that one post said, Doesn't anyone just listen to music anymore? Well last night I did. I had everything hooked up and me and the wife just chilled out and listened to some regae on one of the dish network music channels. It was very relaxing. I'll have to have you over soon to see the system. When are you free next? Maybe the wife and child can go somewhere and you can come over and giver a listen. EJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted November 19, 2002 Share Posted November 19, 2002 Erik, There is a swapmeet for the Florida Antique Wireless Group (FAWG) in Winter Park that I plan on attending on Saturday morning (they open at 8:00 AM). They should have some vintage hi-fi equipment, NOS tubes, caps, resistors, sockets and other miscellaneous parts. If you'd like to join me, let me know. If not, I can probably swing by your place afterwards. Let me know when you want to make another trip to my place... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted November 19, 2002 Share Posted November 19, 2002 Mike, are you going to do some upgrades to the Scott ? Get with me if you want some guidance. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted November 19, 2002 Share Posted November 19, 2002 Craig, I'd like to but not sure where to begin. I would have to think an upgrade in tubes would be the place to start, but I don't want to pay an arm and a leg for them. I probably should replace the 5AR4, and would like to replace the 12AX7's too. The 7189's can probably wait (you put new Russians in there I believe). As for better parts, I wouldn't mind putting in some better caps but not sure there either. Maybe we can talk about it... Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted November 19, 2002 Share Posted November 19, 2002 EJ, I believe you can use some of the parts of you Type ALs to make Type AAs. That's what I'd do. I'd also use better caps and inductors when doing it. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted November 19, 2002 Share Posted November 19, 2002 The network mod you refer to regarding the inductor had to do with the bass driver. The inductor (transformer)connection to the bass driver was removed. The result was a slight measurable improvement in the peak to trough amplitude which removed a slight hump in the frequency response around 180Hz. Its doubtful that this hump is all that audible and seems to be dependent on the program material. It may be more audible when listening to vinyl records because of the nature of the beast (microphonic effects at the phono stylus/record). Later model networks did not have this inductor. This was published in a Klipsch "Dope From Hope" newsletter some years ago. I can't seem to locate the issue in my library. So please understand that I'm doing this from memory. I doubt this modifcation will do anything to open up the highs. I have the inductors disconnected on my Klipschorns & Belle Klipsch. Both use type AA networks. Also, I believe later models had fuses or zeener diode protection. I would remove these if they are present. I can hear them & they deteriorate the sound quality in my opinion. This may have more to do with "opening up the highs" more than removing the inductor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikjohn Posted November 20, 2002 Author Share Posted November 20, 2002 Thnaks for the refresher's and comments guys. It's nice to know you guys are always on call for electronic expertise. EJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Bey Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 I would definitely 'update' your crossovers to type A. The AL network is unknown to me but the A only requires the 13uF, the 2uF, the T2A, and (optionally) the 2.5mH coil. Huge, huge improvement in sound. And I got this by disconnecting the 235mH coil, a second 2uF, and of course the zeners from my AA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikjohn Posted November 20, 2002 Author Share Posted November 20, 2002 Randy, Can you elaborate a little on how I can do the upgrade. Step by step instructions would be appreciated, if you don't mind. Thanks, EJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Bey Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 I can't tell you exactly what to do since I don't know what an AL network looks like. However, I have attached a type A schematic. You can, like Michelangelo, simply chissel away everything that does not look like an A. This all depends on whether your AL has a 13uF cap, a T2A autoformer, and a 2uF cap in it. If so, you are home free. Otherwise you may need to procure some of the components elsewhere. You may want to avail on the locals who have switched to ALK networks to donate (or at least sell at a reasonable cost) their old type AA networks. They can easily be changed to type A. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 Next time your heading my way stop buy and I'll let you borrow the AA. If you like them you can have them for $125.00 or $100.00 plus those CD's you burned and promised me. But, the CD's better be good :-). I havn't had the time to go buy a digital camera yet, so I can put some of my stuff on ebay. So, they go cheap. I start tearing my room apart this weekend to make the changes I told you about. I believe Mike and I prefered the AA over the AL when we did some comparing. I could tell that you have a good ear, after letting you hear a few different speakers and listening to your comments. You just might like the AA's. The AK2 is a better sounding network then I first thought. I realized this after comparing all the different drivers, horns, networks and speakers this last month or two. There is nothing you can do about the LaScala and the Belle's muddy base horn. To me they sound like they have blankets stuffed in the mouth of the horns. On the other hand they sound better then any of Klipsch's other speakers. When I listen to a LaScala alone I think that it sound great and that you can't get any better. It's when you compare them to the Klipschorn or the University Classic that you realize that there are better bass horns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikjohn Posted November 21, 2002 Author Share Posted November 21, 2002 Q, Well I might just have to take you up on that offer for the AA's. Maybe you will let me demo them, if you would rather not that's OK too. And you will get the cd's regardless. I haven't burned em' yet because I don't have any blank disks right now and a few of the disks I want to give to you are still in boxes from my dads move, he has the originals. I personally have burned copies but I don't want to burn from them, they are pretty beat up. When I reburn some of the copies for myself I was going to burn them for you too. Sorry I didn't give them to you when I picked up the speakers. I really wan't planning on picking them up as early as I did so I wasn't really prepared to have the cd's ready. Randy, Thanks for the schem. EJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbflash Posted November 21, 2002 Share Posted November 21, 2002 EJ, What wire are you going to use to rewire your speakers? I just added Alpha Core AG1 speaker wire and new AC outlets which made a big difference to my speakers. Highs sound clean and alive.I now have a large soundstage. I am hoping that when I add my new Interconnects I will have soundstage and that 3D sound. I am waiting on new interconnects to arrive this week. After the Thanksgiving I was going to rewire my Lascala's, but I'm not sure what wire. Another thing I was wondering about was does the high's sound better if you are in another room from where your speakers are and did the speakers sound the same when you were at Q's listening to them? Thanks, Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyKubicki Posted November 22, 2002 Share Posted November 22, 2002 Hey Danny, what have you got those Goertz connected to? Their AG1 sounds like a nice product. I have the M1 in my system for over a year now and have been happy with them. But you know how that goes...you can be happy with a VW until you drive a Mercedes! BTW, what interconnects are you getting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erikjohn Posted November 22, 2002 Author Share Posted November 22, 2002 Danny, I havent really thought about waht wire I was going to use yet. I will probably use some of the wire that I am going to use to wire my system with. Its not a special brand or anything just good ole 12GA Oxy free in wall speaker wire. As far as how they sounded in a different room I really can't say because we never really demoed them. We listenedd to them when they were hooked up as surrounds on his system but never singled them out as a main channel. EJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Q-Man Posted November 22, 2002 Share Posted November 22, 2002 In this case, it's not the room. The AL network isn't as open and detailed sounding as the other LaScala networks. The AK2 network in his Klipschorns is much more revealing. I once thought that the AL and the AK2 were the same. but that is not the case. The Klipschorn networks sound better then the LaScala networks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbflash Posted November 22, 2002 Share Posted November 22, 2002 I have the Alpha Core AG1 hooked up to a pair of Wright Sound WPA 3.5 Amps. My speakers are Lascala's with a pair of ALK Xovers. Right now I have a mess of IC's. Depending on what cd player I have I use the following: When I have my Rega in I use a pair of DYI Belden IC's in. My Rega has been in the shop for 2 months now. I got fed up and bought a Marantz 6000CD player with the Heart upgrade. Between my cd player and my AES-AE3 Preamp I am using a pair of Straight Wire RhapsodyII IC's. Between my preamp and Amp I am using a pair of Belden Design Cables made at Bolder Cable Co. If you can solder get the DYI cables instead of the Bolder. DYI Superlatives $66 vs Bolder $223. Can't tell the difference between the two. I should get two pair of Alpha Core IC today or Saturday. I was talking to Frank on Monday at FSAUDIO and I told him I really couldnt see using the Alpha Core. The difference between the Alpha Core ($600 for 8 feet) and DH Silver T14 ($7 per foot) was not worth it. He is sending me a pair of IC's to replace my all my old IC's. If I don't like the new setup I send him everything back no questions asked. Last night I was listening to my 2 Channel and it is so close. I have great soundstage, but it still lacks something. Sometimes the music just jumps out and sends chills up my spine, but most of the time it sounds clean but flat. It's hard to explain. If you need any Audio stuff check out Frank. He sells Klipsch. He has my same system, except the preamp, at his house. I was talking to him about maybe getting a turntable. The first question he asked me was not how much I wanted to spend, but how many albums did I have? He really wants you be happy with your purchase. Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Bey Posted November 22, 2002 Share Posted November 22, 2002 dbflash, have you tried using either type A or AA crossovers in your LaScala recently? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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