RangerSix Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 ---------------- On 1/26/2003 7:37:53 PM mdeneen wrote: One of the marvelous wonders of total unconscious rationalization is that you get to reject out of hand all questioning of that rationalization. mdeneen ---------------- That works both ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerSix Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 ---------------- On 1/26/2003 7:08:39 PM mdeneen wrote: I used Reagan, Bush because they, in particular made a big deal about raising defensive budgets. Apparently, we got nothing for that money mdeneen ---------------- Is that such a bad thing? It's ironic, the more we prepare for war, the less likelihood that we will experience it. It's only when we let our guard down that trouble strikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 Fish---Of course you realize there's a difference between bashing The United States and bashing the administration that governs The United States. As an American it is my right and my patriotic duty to criticize this administration. And anyone who thinks it's their duty and right to defend it is free to do so too. That's how things are supposed to work, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 Ranger---The internal contradictions of Russian Communism brought about the downfall of the Soviet Union, it was inevitable. Now we struggle with the problems of Global Capitalism, a struggle that may strengthen Capitalism but may well weaken this nation. As Kruschev said, if he were to hang The United States an American businessman would sell him the rope. Capitalists are the least patriotic of Americans and care more for profit and power than for their countrymen or their country. American businessmen are sending more and more jobs overseas in their hunt for profit regardless of the long-term effects this will have on The United States. I don't think you can call Communism a failure until we Americans, with our shrewdness and can-do attitude, give it a try. Hell, the Russians never made anything work well, much less Communism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerSix Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 ---------------- On 1/26/2003 9:26:41 PM TBrennan wrote: I don't think you can call Communism a failure until we Americans, with our shrewdness and can-do attitude, give it a try. Hell, the Russians never made anything work well, much less Communism. ---------------- Shrewdness and can-do attitude are two of the first things to go in a Communist regime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerSix Posted January 26, 2003 Share Posted January 26, 2003 ---------------- On 1/26/2003 9:31:05 PM mdeneen wrote: Less likelihood? Just how many more wars could we have squeezed in over the past 200 years? I'd be hard pressed to name any country involved in the number of wars we have been. I hate to think what we might have done if "less prepared." But, everyone's got their own sense of irony. mdeneen ---------------- You can't be serious? Just pick any country on the European continent, including England. I too, hate to think what might have been done if we were less prepared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted January 27, 2003 Share Posted January 27, 2003 Ranger----I think only Britian has matched us in wars. In the last 200 years we've had the War of 1812, The Creek War, Black Hawk War, 2 or 3 Seminole Wars, Mexican War, War of The Rebellion, Sioux War of 1862, Red Cloud War, Hancock's War, Red River War, Sioux War of 1876-77, Modoc War, a couple more Apache wars, Nez Perce War, Ute War, the Ghost Dance War, Spanish War, Philipine Insurrection, Invasion of Vera Cruz, Pancho Villa Expedition, The Great War, various interventions in Nicarauga and Haiti, WW II, Korea, Vietnam, Somalia and Gulf War. No doubt I missed a few Indian wars. Now see if you can name a European country, including Germany (which has actually fought only a few wars) that has fought more. I can think only of Britian and perhaps France, mainly because of their colonial wars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted January 27, 2003 Share Posted January 27, 2003 Yes I guess it's true,we Americans love war,killing,etc..I can hardly wait to send my 19 and 22 year old son's to kill,or die,NOT!But I would go myself before I will let my grandkids go finish what I know must be stopped now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted January 27, 2003 Author Share Posted January 27, 2003 Yup, we sold Iraq the chemical rope: According to a Senate Committee Report of 1994 <1>: From 1985, if not earlier, through 1989, a veritable witch's brew of biological materials were exported to Iraq by private American suppliers pursuant to application and licensing by the U.S. Department of Commerce. Amongst these materials, which often produce slow, agonizing deaths, were: Bacillus Anthracis, cause of anthrax. Clostridium Botulinum, a source of botulinum toxin. Histoplasma Capsulatam, cause of a disease attacking lungs, brain, spinal cord and heart. Brucella Melitensis, a bacteria that can damage major organs. Clotsridium Perfringens, a highly toxic bacteria causing systemic illness. Clostridium tetani, highly toxigenic. Also, Escherichia Coli (E.Coli); genetic materials; human and bacterial DNA. Dozens of other pathogenic biological agents were shipped to Iraq during the 1980s. http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/1213-02.htm A 1994 report by the Senate Banking Committee concluded that "the United States provided the government of Iraq with 'dual-use' licensed materials which assisted in the development of Iraqi chemical, biological and missile-system programs." The U.S.-Iraqi relationship flourished from February 1986, when then-Vice President George Bush met with Iraq's ambassador to Washington, Nizar Hamdoon, and assured him that Baghdad would be permitted to receive more sophisticated U.S. technology, until the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait in 1990. Over that four-year period, the Reagan and Bush administrations approved licenses for the export of more than $600 million worth of advanced American technology to Iraq, according to congressional reports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted January 27, 2003 Share Posted January 27, 2003 WOW,you cat's need help,oh well gotta go,you guy's should e mail Saddam! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RangerSix Posted January 27, 2003 Share Posted January 27, 2003 Okay, good discussion. Unfortunately, I have to bow out. The war drums are beating and I'm needed elsewhere - enough said. It's pretty clear that you guys do not agree with what America is doing. So be it. Nothing I say, is going to change that. For good or bad, I love my country. We, as Americans, don't always make the right calls, but in the end we have an amazing knack to come up on our feet and ultimately do what is right. It's okay to stand on the sideline and disagree. As an American citizen you have that freedom, but when the flag goes up, then all I ask is you stay out of our way until we've completed the mission. God Bless America! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted January 27, 2003 Author Share Posted January 27, 2003 Never mistake criticism of the violence of war and the ambitions of the ruling class for lack of patriotism. Citizens who participate, or even protest, the policies and actions of our elected representatives and the governing administration, do more for democracy than those who sit passively on the curb and wave their flags. There is no democracy without dissent. Martin King and Mohammed Ali did as much for the defense of freedom in this country, and around the globe, as the troops did in Vietnam. With their non-violent approaches as examples, one has to question whether or not there is a more effective, more enduring, less risky way to deal with a dessert region filled with despotic regimens and thousands of years of violence. We should crush Al Qaeda with a steel glove. But we should also tread lightly in a land where we are not welcomed, our troops grow ever-more present and our embassies are regularly attacked. I dont know what the ultimate solution to the Middle East problem is. I suspect that whatever it is, it is too complicated for me to fully comprehend. I do know this. There are plenty of political, economic and military opportunities for the US in areas less fraught with so much downside potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybergeek Posted January 27, 2003 Share Posted January 27, 2003 " I used Reagan, Bush because they, in particular made a big deal about raising defensive budgets. Apparently, we got nothing for that money." What an absolutely moronic statement which could only come from another of what i call the "Kumbya Delusionists". Reagan ended the Cold War by bankrupting the Soviet Union with the arms race. Either this guy is only 10 years old or he's totally biased and ignorant. No wonder that while Reagan drove the Soviets into oblivion the Dems like Al Gore were pushing for appeasment with SALT. The Liberals protested and The Gulf war ended certain disaster for the region and the world. The Liberals made the same doomsday predictions even before Afghanistan. Again, they are reduced to sniffling, mubbling ninnies. I've come to the conclusions that only politics and the Liberal Press can be responsible for such levels of despondency. The Liberals here have covered every irrational Liberal talking point over and over. President Bush stated the use of force against Iraq as a solution for their compliance in his 1999-2000 Presidential campaign platform. He CHANGED US policy so that any country that actively supports terrorism is an enemy and will be dealt with the same as the terrorists themselves. This was voted into law following 9-11-01. This would not have happened with either a Clinton or Gore Admin. Liberal Pacifists EXPECT the US to protect them from another massive terrorist attack, but don't want it to be the slightest bit messy. But the only way to ensure this is to stop the WMD from getting into the hands of terrorists and take them from Terrorist regimes. Anyone who denies that Iraq doesn't have an arsenal of WMD is a liar or a fool. Anyone that thinks that Iraq DOES NOT actively support terrorism is a LIAR or a FOOL. Anyone that thinks its NOT a matter of IF, but WHEN Iraq attacks us, is a LIAR or a FOOL. President Bush is only taking on the policy action which should have been done during the Clinton Administration. It's enough of a tragedy that this country has and will suffer from his lax policy of reactionism and appeasement during his 8 years in office. It's only salt on this wound that his political croanies still continue with his New Socialist Liberal, "politically correct" way of thinking. This is not about specific diversions the Liberal Pacifists love to spout off but cannot defend against logic and reason. Their "Kumbya Delusionist" way of thinking is not logical thinking. It is IDEALOGY as in NeveNever Land. It has been proven the absolute wrong weapon against Psychopathic Idealistic Maniacs throughout history. The only way the Liberals and other misguided will see their "smoking guns" will be when the WMD are uncovered by our military. The only way that might be avoided is to back the threat of force. Unfortunately, as with the Cold War, the Gulf War, and Afghanistan, they will only see the light after the fact. And then quickly forget. Always a new political front for the Liberals and misguided. Time for the next lesson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynnm Posted January 27, 2003 Share Posted January 27, 2003 cybergeek I find it interesting that while you rant on and on about so called liberals never thinking..... I have yet to see a single comment from you that is anything other than a flat out regurgitation of the official party line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael hurd Posted January 27, 2003 Share Posted January 27, 2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cybergeek Posted January 27, 2003 Share Posted January 27, 2003 Lynn, if the GOP happens to fall into the category of common sense, that's not my fault. LOL You and your merry band of Liberals here obviously have the herd mentality thing going. Again, is it any coincidence that those who start the political threads on an Audio bulletin board just happen to fall on the Liberal side? Obvious by the last US elections that 75% of Americans aren't New Liberal Socialists. Why do you think this result is so apparent on this KLIPSCH board? Seems the pathetic Liberals are the only desperate enough to start and continuously partake. One or two opposing posts send you all into disarray. Your reply only reinforces that. It only took you seconds to reply. Get a Life. LOL Somebody has to step into your sick little liberal game and state some facts. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forresthump2 Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 So right Cyber. These Canadian Liberal Clowns are are all Giddy and Honored to be grouped in the Same category as The American Left Coast clowns and Political Union Hacks. HAHAHA They think they have more intelligence than the American Gov does. LOL They cry and whine about Every necessary military Confrontation. How terrible of a mistake it is and only to be proved wrong every time except for Nam which they the Dems started. Hypocrites. LOL They operate on the Principle that if they oppose Everything the Bush admin does then like a Broken Clock they still bound to be right twice a day. A bunch of broken Clocks. he-he-heee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted January 28, 2003 Author Share Posted January 28, 2003 I would rather be right only twice a day than wrong all day long. I would rather pay three dollars per gallon for gasoline than waste a single young soldiers life in a region where people having been killing each other in the name of a merciful God for thousands of years. Although Clinton intervened in Bosnia on behalf of the Muslims and that turned out successfully, I preferred that we just stay away. I guess I follow Clauswitz. If war is nothing but a wrestling match on a larger scale, then I choose to wrestle some place else. National security is not strengthened by fighting wars. National security is strengthen by preparing for them. Gad, I am getting sucked into this by children! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted January 28, 2003 Author Share Posted January 28, 2003 Those who dont study history are doomed to repeat it, but those who cant laugh at our past mistakes take the current ones too seriously. Therefore, to continue this prolonged rant in a lighter vein for which it was intended, here is another song apropos for the current situation: We met as soulmates On Parris Inland we left as inmates from an asylum and we were sharp as sharp as knives and we were so gung ho to lay down our lives. We came in spastic like tameless horses we left in plastic as numbered corpses and we learned fast to travel light our arms were heavy but our bellies were tight we had no homefront we had no soft soap they sent us playboy they gave us bob hope we dug in deep and shot on sight and prayed to Jesus Christ with all of our might. We had no cameras to shoot the landscape we passed the hash pipe and played our Doors tapes and it was dark.. so dark at night and we held onto each other like brother to bother we promised our mothers we'd write (chorus) and we would all go down together we said we'd all go down together yes we would all go down together. Remember Charlie? remember Baker? they left their childhood on every acre and who was wrong, and who was right? It didn't matter in the thick of the fight,... We, held the day,.. in the palm of our hands They, ruled the night And the night, seemed to last as long as six weeks On Parris Island We held the coastline they held the highland and they were sharp as sharp as knives they heard the hum of the mortars they counted the rotors and waited for us to arrive Billy Joel - Goodnight Saigon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted January 28, 2003 Share Posted January 28, 2003 Cybergeek---I'm a Liberal but I ain't no pacifist. I think you're just tough talk, lots of gas and chest-thumping and no balls. You are servile and are probably overbearing to your underlings and obsequious to your superiors, I know the type. I reckon you're just programmed to follow the lead of your "betters", a useful quality in dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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