Stick with Klipsch or go SVS

[Dombo]

I am trying to decide on a subwoofer and I think I have narrowed it down to Klipsch RSW series or a SV Subwoofer. Each use a BASH amp so I guess that is good, but price can vary quite a bit (Klipsch being more expensive)

For those of you who have SVS subwoofers: Can you give some reasons why I would go with SVS over Klipsch.

and

For those of you who have Klipsch subwoofers: Can you give me reasons to stay with Klipsch.

I am racking my brain and need some pointers, Thanks

[cdsang]

I have heard the RSW-10 and liked it. I haven't heard the SVS models. From what I read, it seems SVS is good for movies and RSW is good for music. Hope this helps some.

[m00n]

I like the RSWs because they have a lot of punch, no slop at all. I can't speak for SVS. Never heard one.

[prodj101]

I love my RSW-15. In my opinion it is one of the best music subs around. good for HT too. plus, the cost of one RSW-15 and one CS-ultra is the same.

[Danartdis]

I have neither but from what I have read here it seems that the RSW-15 may have a slight edge in music and a decided advantage in appearance. The SVS dual Ultra set-up is apparently better at loosening floorboards while in HT use. It seems that the Klipsch covers the musical spectrum quite nicely but falls off a bit in the HT-important 18-30 Hz range. Again these are just my observations from roaming aroung in here. Good luck with whatever you decide, they are both high quality subs.

Dan

[j-malotky]

I auditioned the RSW15's in my room, from a local dealer and went with the dual SVS ultras.

The only time I would recomend the RSW is if you have a small room.

When I got the duals, I was afraid that the bass would be too overpowering, rattling the floorboards, as a previous poster suggests. I did not want my HT to sound like the 18year old kids cars that go boom boom down the street.

So - I contacted many of the SVS owners on this forum and emailed Tom V of SVS and was assured that was not the case. Although it could be if I wanted it too I guess.

To put this debate to bed.... THE SVS IS VERY MUSICAL. It matches the performace of my Khorns beautifully.

If you know how the khorns sound, the highs, mids, and bass are all very tight and don't over power each other, very krisp sounding and detailed... That is exactly how the SVS sounds. It is a VERY acurate and natural sounding extension of the Khorn bass.

If any of you are ever in the South East Wisconsin area and want to hear SVS in an all Heritage setting, send me an email.

JM

[TheEAR]

As JM said the RSW subs work great insmall rooms,do not have the big time output below 30Hz needed to complement large speakers in large rooms.

BTW I have as some here know a few subs and had dual Ultras powered by a 1KW per channel Cerver for two weeks on test.In my larger room the Ultras dominate,not even close.In the smallish Klipsch HT the RSW15 really works wonders and hits hard.Still not much below 25Hz even in a confined space.

As musicality goes,the SVS Ultras will be "musical" as long as you cut them low.Like Sunfire the SVS subs like to be cut low and work best with larger speakers.After all these are subwoofers...not mere woofers.

So,in a small room RSW subs work wonders,in large rooms large subs and SVS work better.Try the RSW at home,you'll know best if its what you are looking for.Me,I enjoy my RSW,Sunfire,Revel,velo and Aerial. Soon SVS

[Orange Peel]

If home theatre is the main focus, SVS hands down, if Music is the main focus, I would still go SVS because they're cheaper than the RSW series. The SVS packs plenty of punch and works great with music, I have no complaints with my 20-39 PC+.

If I had the money I would have dual Ultra's, but money was tight so I got the PC+, which is still one kick *** sub, and rocks my house and me apart. Go with SVS, you have a 45 day money back garauntee, so you can't lose, I'm willing to bet once you hook it up and watch that first movie, you're done

[Kain]

Well, according to what I have read...SVS!

[HornEd]

After buying five Klipsch subs for my HT... I took a flyer and bought a pair of the first dozen SVS Ultras ever constructed. They not only performed... but performed way beyond my expectations... particularly in their seemless integration with my six KLF-30's in the HT... AND with my Klipschorn based all Heritage music system. They have the quickness to match the most up-tempo music in my library... and the clout to bring reality to a kickdrum's punch... and the hell of Normandie as portrayed in "Saving Private Ryan"!

Let me say that I also have reviewed the RSW-15 and generally concur with the ears assessment of that subwoofer... works best in smaller listening areas and performs well above about 25 Hz.

In my experience, better quality subwoofers perform equally well on music or HT... and a failing in either area reflects a less than well constructed subwoofer. Further, I am far more interested in how much realism a subwoofer creates rather than how loud it can thump up your neighbor's ire. Creating the lows found in nature is what my 7' Twin Tower SVS Ultras do best. They are free from the coloration above 80 Hz that gives away the directionality of lesser subwoofers. Thus, the "ear-illusion" is that the deep bass sounds are coming from whatever speaker plays the above 80 Hz sounds associated with any low notes... and that's the way it ought to be!

Many people are confused by the Dolby Minimum Standard for Professional Theaters being set at 121.5 dB at 20 Hz. That's what it takes on the low end to play all the sounds in a Dolby DVD movie... and that strikes most people as being far too loud. Actually, most loud sounds of that magnitude recorded under the Dolby aegis would probably last for less than a second... so no ear damage is likely. But, what is likely is that that brief peak will add a degree of realism to the program material that makes great music or special effects seem startingly real.

As JM says, there is no short of musical or muscular talent in a pair of SVS Ultras driven by 1,000 watt pro-style amp... and you would need to buy multiple RSW-15's to match the power... and still would not be able to go as low. Of course, while one RSW-15 is more compact that two Ultras... I have yet to make a subwoofer buying decision on visual aesthetics... my subwoofer choice marches to the tune of a different "eardrummer"... -HornED

PS: While internal "BASH" amps have their muscle points, my preference is to buy passive subwoofers and hook them to pro-style amps (like Crown) that can be more closely matched to a given listening environment.

[Colin]

I think that this is a tough question. It is no surprise to me that the SVS tubes match up really well with the Khorns. The SVS tubes go really deep, picking up just where the Khorns leave off. I have the precursor to the RSW series, the LF10 and the KSW200; in addition, I have heard the SVS tubes. The SVS tubes are better for movies because they go deep, but the RSW has the punch in the mid-bass region, which adds much to both movies and music, but especially movies. If you search this forum and the Secrets of Home Theater web site, you will find charts, describing them both. (The author bought both the RSW and the SVS!)

Take a close look at the charts. The peak of their frequency response defines how and what the sub can do. In my case, dialing up volume on my KSW adjust how much 60-Hz sound I get, since that is where its peak is. While more of the LF10 dial adjusts how much 40-hz sound I get. Both of the frequency response peaks on the SVS and the RSW are lower than mine. While the SVS is bigger, its response curve is lower than the RSW sub. Look also at the height of the response curve. The RSW is a champ at output. It will give you plenty of punch. The SVS is a champ at depth. It will give you plenty of low notes. Tough choice.

Since our profiles do not list the equipment you have, it is hard to accurately match which sub you should get and for what reason. The better your loudspeakers though, the more powerful your sub should be. I have heard them both and I prefer the punch of the RSW to the depth of the SVS. On the other hand, I hope to get a SVS tube in for review. I recommended them to my friends and they love them. The KSW series, BTW, is a bargain amongst subs: lots of value for the money, though not all in the same league as the RSW or the SVS.

[Big Ben]

IMO, In my setup, my twin RSW15's (stacked) are superb for music/HT and are awesome performers. The Dual SVS Ultras that I have extend the range with lots of power for HT environments.

Considering adding a second set of RSW15's to elevate by sub bass fixation...vis'a 'vis the Ears insatiable appetite for sub bass.

I like the RSW15's a lot.

Ben

[prodj101]

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_8_4/subwoofers-12-2001.html theres the website with the comparison between the RSW-15 and SVS

[Doug C]

I've used twin SVS Ultra's and a single 18" Velodyne sub in my Music/HT set-up and prefer the twin Ultra's over the one 18" Velodyne on music and HT. I actually have one of the Ultra's in each front corner rather than colocated in the same corner. I find locating them separately results in a smoother low frequency room responce (magnitude of room induced peaks & nulls is smaller which provides smoother sounding bass).

Some people don't like the looks of the SVS (personal taste). I actually prefer the appearance of the SVS over the big box sub. The foot print of the SVS is much smaller than big subs (especially if you are placing them in a corner). The SVS are also much easier to move (simply tilt and roll).

The question of powered or passive sub depends somewhat on your set-up. If you don't have room in your equipment rack for another amp then the powered subs are nice. The passive sub has the advantage of using an amp that you may already have. The amp on my Velodyne has developed a problem so I will have to remove the amp and send it in for repair which means this sub will be completely out of service for a while.

Doug C.

[HornEd]

Doug C, thanks for reminding us to take another look at that old review... I say old because the SVS Ultras have been given a new and better driver since that review!

It was also good to revisit the servo aspect... for eliminating harmonics is one of the premier benefits of having a venerable old Velo 18 as Boa12 or TheEar(s) would likely echo. I would like to see a similar article updated with Sunfire, PW 2200, a pair of SVS Ultra+ with a Crown amp, etc. Of particular interest would be an article that reflected what it would take to reach reference levels with different subs. If anyone knows of one, how about letting the rest of us know about it?

Of course, subwoofers thump up a controversial area... like what is "natural" and what is "pleasing" to every day folks or every day audiophiles. In the Heritage Era, Klipsch built its reputation on a "live" "natural" sound where orchestral horns came out of a Klipschorn, LaScala, Belle, etc. sounding like a horn! Most of the audiophile pleasing speakers these days seem to be pointed toward a manufactured sound that is not particularly like the sound of a live orchestra in a supurb concert hall. No where is this sort of dichotomy more apparent than in the range and performance specs of moderate and upscale subwoofers.

I mean, when I go to a concert hall, I do not have "dual-ear- servos" that filter out concert hall harmonics. When I go to my favorite watering hole on a Saturday night, I don't have a battery operated "Dyspepsia 8 Gut Thump Enhancer" to beef up the kick-drum. And I know that the "Big Bertha" drums of high end collegiate marching bands can hit 6 Hz with authority... but I'll gladly settle for 16 Hz and beyond now that advanced age has given the edge to feeling what used to be heard... or so I would like to think.

What it boils down to is once you get past the "thump the block" kiddy car subs... it's all a matter of "taste"... good or bad... first and performance later... at least for those of us who buy subs in the $1-3k range. Basically, any sub that can give me reference level and are transparent with K-horn "live/naturalness" are the subs for me... especially for doing the HT FX that PWK didn't include in his design considerations. -HornED

[kjohnsonhp]

For an SVS option in a 15'x20' room with Cornwalls, do you think

an Ultra is preferred or a 20-39 PC-Plus? After speaking with SVS they thought the PC-Plus would be plenty which I would tend to agree but I also seem to wish I had spent the extra money on got the higher model after making a purchase.

I've also heard good things about the REL Storm III which is twice the price of a 20-39 PC-Plus. Would it be a good option vs Ultras?

[HornEd]

As a former REL Storm owner and a current dual SVS Ultra owner let me say that the REL is a great box with audiophile plaudits... but one REL doesn't begin to compare with a pair of Ultras driven by a Crown Amp IMHO.

Frankly, I also sympathise with your misgivings about not springing for the Ultras... the difference in money is much easier to get over than the difference in not enjoying reference level potential. Not to worry, you won't be the first to sell his first SVS to join the Ultra crowd.

But, then again, you can be sure that you will get a lot of bass enjoyment with your purchase. It's kind of like buying a sports car that can't go over 100 mph. At 100 mph, real sports cars get up on their tippy toes and bring real adventure to cross-country driving... or at least it did for me B.R.* -HornED

* Before Radar

[Doug C]

In response to Kjohnsonhp's question.

I've experimented extensively in my listening room comparing my two SVS Ultra's to a single 18" Velodyne. I would say the two Ultra's have approximately the same output capability of the one 18" Velodyne. I find the flexability of having two subs to be an advantage however. You can experiment with locating them separately in different parts of the room or colocating them.

The best sub location will depend on the room. Im my case locating two subs separately helps to excite all low frequencies more evently (much less room induced boom). My experience indicates that a good quality sub by itself does not have any boomy qualities. It's the room you place the sub in that has the boomy qualities produced by room induced peaks and nulls across the low frequency range.

I find two smaller subs that together have approximately the same output capability of one large sub to be better simply because you have more placement possibilities or placement combinations to experiment with. You may be lucky and have great room dimensions that allow a single big sub to produce a very even frequency response across the entire low end. On the other hand this may not be the case?

It was not clear to me if you currently have the SVS PC-Plus, two of these or none? If you have none, I would suggest trying one of them. If you like what you hear and would like more of the same order a second. Although I own twin ultras, I can't imagine there is a huge difference between twin PC-Plus and twin Ultra?

I see the PC-Plus has a variable phase knob as opposed to a simple 0-180 degree switch which is a big plus if you are thinking ultimately of two subs. Two subs located in different parts of a room may have to be phased differently and the variable phase knob gives added set-up flexability to do this.

Doug C

[TheEAR]

My fave sub is the Aerial SW12,no doubt.Think of this sub as a Ultra in a gorgeous cabinet powered by a high end,plate amp with balanced inputs and quality of a Krell plate amp!A real joy,goes both deep and is as musical as it gets.

For those with lesser budgets the SVS Ultra is the ideal choice,it has all the performance minus the looks.Well if you want someting closer to the Aerial in looks the SVS SS may get you closer.

Ah the joys of subwoofing.

I am waiting for SVS to come out with their new super sub,then bribe TV and the SVS team with the funds to build me one using the SS drivers.

I think I will get sick because of all this magnetic field

[HornEd]

When it comes to evaluating above-the-sea subs, I like to take advice by TheEAR(s) and shake it for all it's worth... the fallout is generally an improvement over what I had been thinking! And now that he has his green elf riding his "answering machine" credentials we can all expect more "practical bass advice and beyond" in 2003. Happy New Year, EAR(s)! -HornED

PS: Did your elf turn green looking at http://www.royaldevice.com/custom3.htm and not being able to figure out how to put one under the TheEAR(s) main mini-listening room?