Finished My "Cornscala" Project

[Wrench]

6 hours ago, Deang said:

Tap 2 with one 2.5uF = -9dB (101dB)/1000Hz

Tap 2 with two 2.5uF parallel= -9dB (101dB)/500Hz

Tap 1 with one 2.5uF = -12dB (98dB)/500Hz

Tap 1 with two 2.5uF parallel= -12dB (98dB)/250Hz

 

To keep the crossover at "500Hz", you can either use Tap 2 with 5uF (two 2.5uF in parallel), or Tap 1 with a 2.5uF

Thanks for the clarification.  I have mine set to Tap 2 with two 2.5uF parallel which I changed from the original setting from Crites, Tap 1 with one 2.5uF.  I find it sounding balanced now.  The Mid driver sounded too low before.  Everyone has different preferences for sure...  

Edited December 12, 2021 by Wrench

[Deang]

A lot of variables. The room, how you place the speakers (boundary reinforcement/room gain), how close you sit, how loud you normally listen, and our hearing curves. I do rely on the equal loudness curves somewhat, which tell me it's probably smarter to dial the midrange down a bit when balancing a network. 

[Wrench]

5 minutes ago, Deang said:

A lot of variables. The room, how you place the speakers (boundary reinforcement/room gain), how close you sit, how loud you normally listen, and our hearing curves. I do rely on the equal loudness curves somewhat, which tell me it's probably smarter to dial the top down a bit when balancing a network. 

Ultimately it would be great to be able to adjust, attenuate, with a dial, the mid and tweeter to account for the variables.  How possible is it to work this into the crossover?    

[Deang]

Any network with variable L-pads or one that swamps the network can do that, but not without consequence.

 

"Simply put, damping factor is the ratio of speaker impedance to amplifier output impedance. Autoformers do one simple thing and that is turn any excess voltage into the ability to deliver current. Resistive networks simply take that excess voltage and turn it into heat. Along the way they also add appreciable series impedance to the amplifier netting you a single digit damping factor."

 

Should the tone controls really be part of the network? 

[mopardave]

3 hours ago, Deang said:

I don't think I built that network for that speaker, did I? Where did you get it -- from Kevin?

 

Edit: Did I even build that? There is no label and the connections on the terminal strip don't look right.

Yep, you built them for Kevin.  Think he was gonna use them in his Khorns.  

[Deang]

There were in his modded Klipschorns, how did you end up with them.

 

I can’t tell what’s going on with them because it looks like they’ve been modified.

 

What horn are you using. 

[mopardave]

11 minutes ago, Deang said:

There were in his modded Klipschorns, how did you end up with them.

 

I can’t tell what’s going on with them because it looks like they’ve been modified.

 

What horn are you using. 

I don't think they have been modified at all.   It all started out, I was just borrowing them.  It ended up, I bought them.  I don't know they are a good match, but they sound better than the ALK universals.   I'm using the zxpc horn. 11x10 i think.

[TubesGlo]

8 hours ago, Deang said:

 

The first sentence makes sense. This is the common complaint I get from folks who reach out to me. The next sentence doesn't make sense, because moving the midrange to Tap 2 would make the midrange louder. IOWs, I'm pretty sure they ship using Tap 2 (-9, using two 2.5uF caps in parallel), with an option to move to Tap 1 (-12dB, using a single 2.5uF). 

 

When I build them for people, I just use Tap 1. On that horn, the D405 is a 110dB driver. On Tap 2, it's at 101dB, which most will find too forward. I also go 12dB/octave on the de120.

This is how my crossovers were shipped.

[mopardave]

Just now, mopardave said:

I don't think they have been modified at all.   It all started out, I was just borrowing them.  It ended up, I bought them.  I don't know they are a good match, but they sound better than the ALK universals.   I'm using the zxpc horn. 11x10 i think.

 

[TubesGlo]

9 hours ago, Deang said:

Michael Crites needs to develop a logo. Seeing "CornScala" with the Klipsch pie logo is just weird.

They weren't from Crites. Bought them on ebay.

[mopardave]

14 minutes ago, mopardave said:

 

Might be 7x11 from the looks of it.

[Deang]

58 minutes ago, mopardave said:

I don't know they are a good match, but they sound better than the ALK universals.

That is funny, because those ARE ALK Universals. I built them as a favor for Kevin.
 

Anyways, there are three input taps on the autoformer - 0, -1, and -2. This would be the short red wire. The longer wire goes to the output taps. You subtract the input number from the output number to get your attenuation level. I’m guessing you should be -2 and 9, or -7dB. A good starting point. 

 

Since those were built for Klipschorns, the tweeter is being run full out. So, you have a problem there unless you added an L-pad. The crossover point is also 400Hz, which is too low for that horn. I usually go a half octave above the Fc of the horn at a minimum.

 

The wiring is fine. I forgot Al and me decided to make the new design biamp capable (I was against it). 
 

Gently lift and straighten those resistors. They get hot and will burn through the capacitor below them. 

[Deang]

30 minutes ago, TubesGlo said:

They weren't from Crites. Bought them on ebay.

I know. My point is that “CornScala” is a designation that Bob came up with, and now you have a guy making labels with that name and a Klipsch logo. 

[Deang]

Pictures are helpful. Not the horn I thought it was. You’re probably fine on the crossover point. 

[Deang]

1 hour ago, TubesGlo said:

This is how my crossovers were shipped.

I’m sorry friend, but my eyes just aren’t good enough to figure out what’s going on there. 

[mopardave]

52 minutes ago, Deang said:

That is funny, because those ARE ALK Universals. I built them as a favor for Kevin.
 

Anyways, there are three input taps on the autoformer - 0, -1, and -2. This would be the short red wire. The longer wire goes to the output taps. You subtract the input number from the output number to get your attenuation level. I’m guessing you should be -2 and 9, or -7dB. A good starting point. 

 

Since those were built for Klipschorns, the tweeter is being run full out. So, you have a problem there unless you added an L-pad. The crossover point is also 400Hz, which is too low for that horn. I usually go a half octave above the Fc of the horn at a minimum.

 

The wiring is fine. I forgot Al and me decided to make the new design biamp capable (I was against it). 
 

Gently lift and straighten those resistors. They get hot and will burn through the capacitor below them. 

Yes, universal and -2 and 9 are where they are set running the mid 4db above the woofer.  I had L pads but found running the tweet at 0 was best to my ear and removed them.  Where should my cross over point be and how can I change that?

[ClaudeJ1]

1 hour ago, Deang said:

I know. My point is that “CornScala” is a designation that Bob came up with, and now you have a guy making labels with that name and a Klipsch logo. 

I built the Original "CornScala" with a LaScala Mid, and EV T-35 Tweeter and Eminence woofer.............in 1976! But I did not call it anything. Just a Mono Center. A year later, or so, all 3 were replaced by Khorns and a LaScala in the center, which lasted for 30 more years!

 

 

[TubesGlo]

32 minutes ago, Deang said:

I’m sorry friend, but my eyes just aren’t good enough to figure out what’s going on there. 

Pics are the same, uploaded twice. They were shipped with the squawker at tap 1 as the pic shows.

[Deang]

22 minutes ago, mopardave said:

Yes, universal and -2 and 9 are where they are set running the mid 4db above the woofer.  I had L pads but found running the tweet at 0 was best to my ear and removed them.  Where should my cross over point be and how can I change that?

You said these sound better than the CSW 450, but they are the same network except  for the parts I use. Anyways, the big cap is 47uF, and should probably be 33uF - but if you’re not listening at insane levels, you’re probably fine. 

[Deang]

23 minutes ago, TubesGlo said:

Pics are the same, uploaded twice. They were shipped with the squawker at tap 1 as the pic shows.

A lot going on with the wiring and paralleling of the caps, I just couldn’t tell for sure what was going on.