Wanna get a TT...

[eq_shadimar]

I was in the same position as Justin just a little bit ago. I just got my Fisher 500B working and I was hell bent on getting a turntable. Well I didn't have lots of cash so I ended up picking one up off of eBay for $10 plus $5 shipping. I then spent another $15 on a new needle for the Grado cartridge.

Ok so it is not the best in the world but it got me going for not a ton of cash. I do plan on getting a better TT in the future. Bottom line is that most any TT will get you 90% of the goodness of LP's. Even though my TT is crap by most standards records still sound great. If fact either my memory is jaded or I have simply forgotten but I don't remember records sounding this good.

Laters,

[Colin]

where do you get belts for these things? what is a the best palce to order a Grado cartridge?

[HDBRbuilder]

EQ,

That is exactly MY POINT. I would rather recommend an inexpensively aquired GOOD turntable/cartridge combo to those starting out, than a more expensive GREAT combo.

That way, the purchaser is not out much money, can do the vinyl thing immediately, and has a, shall we say, "quality guidline" to work upwards from.

This gives the purchaser immediate enjoyment at minimal cost, and the opportunity to do comparisons over a period of time, as his bankroll increases, so that he can eventually make the best investment for himself in a top-end model combo...instead of dropping a big wad of money up front that MAY not be easily recovered later on down the line as "upgrade-itis" sets in. That is my philosophy on things....and what my recommendations are based upon.

I know what I like, and can afford(which isn't very much!!)...and I pass this info on in the hopes that if the recommendations are taken, the purchaser will be able to continue onward with upgrades later on, but still have a very good sounding set-up, rivalling many of those out there that cost MUCH more, and he can DEPEND upon this set-up lasting a very long time if need be!...until that point in time arrives where the purchaser has had the opportunity to decide on his upgrades and has the aquired cash to make the investments in them.

One of the main factors in my recommendations is that they are often "overlooked sleepers" that are currently going for ridiculously low prices in the used market...prices that can do nothing but go up in the future...especially due to the fact that sooner or later, somebody is gonna find out just how good they really are!!...driving the prices up.

Therefore, when the purchaser gets around to eventually making his system upgrades, his previous purchases will sell at a higher price than he paid for them, and he can apply that profit-made towards the new upgrades!! There is normally MORE to my recommendations than meets the eye at first glance...keep that in mind!

[mobile homeless]

Perhaps so. These recs just go against most of what I have learned and experienced regarding turntables over the last 25 years or so. I found cheap belt drives to work better than mid-price direct drives. I found quartz lock speed to sound less involving. I would rather have a bone simple belt drive table with a line regulated speed control that is fully manual or, at worst, semi-automatic. I would look for a very solid plinth and more massive platter. I would replace the cheap rubber ribbed mat with something like The Donut (or the standard version of the same). Buy as good a cartridge as you can find - take a leap into the Vinyl Asylum for some info too.

I have had a few heavily built direct drive tables from the 70s that did OK as I said before. But Belt drive sounds more fluid, quieter, and has more or a analog sound compared to direct drive with the motor vibrations coming into the spindle/platter and up into cartridge.

Look for isoloation of the motor from the chassis in some way with these belt drives. Most will just have rubber bushings.

Frankly, if going with Heritage Klipsch, the source makes ALL the difference in the world. To me, I would put as much as possible into the gear upstream.

kh

[itsmyforte]

i too am interested in getting a turntable to listen to. what is a good/descent table to listen to. i was thinking of getting a brand new Denon , but if i can spend that amount ($150) on an equal or better product i would like to know.

[arfz28]

Moble, HDBRbuilder,I just picked up a Scott PS17A belt drive turntable for 15 bucks,Its in nice condition cosmetically, Base on it is mint. Is this a decient turntable, or would you call it lets say, a bottom of the line turntable,or worse, is it a piece a junk?I really no nothing about scott turntables, are have I heard anything good or bad about them.I have a shure V15 TYPE5 MR cartridge that I want to install on it.I just dont have a lot of money to spend on a good turntable right now,and I just couldnt pass the deal up on this nice looking turntable, it will look good with my scott 299a.Someday I would like to get a thorens turntable and mount that shure cartridge on it.

[horn player]

B & O Beogram TX2 TT for sale, probably needs cartridge, as it has static when played. Everything else works OK. One recently sold on Ebay for around 300 in same shape, needing cartridge. Make an offer! Email if interested.

[HDBRbuilder]

Kelly,

You keep using the term "mid-priced direct-drives"...let me enlighten you a bit here: The SL-1300 was NOT a mid-priced D/D model!! It was also NOT the TOTL with Technics, either! Although Technics DID offer mid-priced units, and thrived off the profits from them, pretty much flooding the market with them for over two decades following the introduction of their early high-quality D/D units! 1976 MSRP EXAMPLES:

Empire Troubador II 598 (B/D, 2 sp): $399.95

Dual 601 (B/D, 2 sp): $249.95+(depending on options)

Linn Sondek LP-12 (B/D, 1 sp): $359.00

Thorens TD-125AB Mark II (B/D, 3 sp): $410.00

Technics SL-1100A (D/D, 2 sp): $369.95

Technics SL-110(same as above/no arm): $299.95

Technics SL-1200 (D/D, 2 sp): $279.95

Technics SL-120(same as above/no arm): $229.95

Technics SL-1300 (D/D, 2 sp): $299.95

Yamaha YP800 (D/D, 2 sp) : $500.00 (ridiculous!!)

B&O Beogram 3000(B/D, 2 sp) : $300.00

B&O Beogram 4002(B/D, 2 sp): $700.00!!! (talk about RIDICULOUS, this is adding INSULT to INJURY!!! LOL!)

Rabco ST-7 (B/D, 2 sp): $400.00 (this linear-tracking POS wasn't worth the material cost of its packaging!!)

As for comments about Technics turntables ending up with disfunctional cue controls...HERE IS THE DOPE ON THAT!!: the cue is VISCOUS-damped, and its lift mechanism is JUST BEHIND the tonearm clamp/support, which, when the CLAMP is CLAMPED, and some idiot owner decides to use the cue lever BEFORE unclamping the tone-arm, gives the o-ring seal in the viscous mechanism no choice but to blow under the pressure!! Granted, the design of the cue assembly could be better, but it is OPERATOR ERROR that CAUSES this "expensive to fix" damage to begin with!!! DUH!!

It REALLY GETS OLD reading all these comments about this and that being so damned sub-par to something you have experienced or like, Kelly! I respect your opinions, but I MUCH MORE RESPECT THEM WHEN THEY ARE BASED ON ACTUAL EXPERIENCE!! And I readily admit you have a $hitload of experience!! BUT...

My REAL question to YOU is...have you ever even used or heard an SL-1300???? Just what I thought!!

Same for the H/K 430, right????????

Now, have you ever read anything by ME that doubted YOUR judgement of ANYTHING you have actually EXPERIENCED??????

No???...then lighten up a bit, WILLYA????

I rest MY case!

[Pland]

Hi,

I'm brooming out some equipment,including a perfect Rega Planar 2,with Audio Technica cartridge.You can have the combo for 200.00 if interested.Let me know.

Best,

Pat

[mobile homeless]

This is Rega P2 is a REALLY nice little deal from Pat; anyone in that price range should give this a look. I have known Pat quite awhile online, sharing mails and phone conversation... Pat is a good guy, honest, and keeps care of his gear. In addition, this is less than these go for on ebay by and large, that from an unknown seller. The little Rega is just as I outlined above: Simple - well designed. - belt drive - and one of the best arm's made for the money (the arm is actually better than the table). This arm can be made even BETTER when modified by Origin Live to compete with some heavy hitters (in the $1k range). Incognito also does a wiring upgrade with Cardas (I am currently listening to the Rega RB-300 Incognito wired arm on the PE table). For $200, it's hard to do too much better if in good condition.

Andy, if you read my post, and then yours, I would say you are the one that needs to settle down a tad bit. WE just don't agree. And there is nothing wrong with that. I was just stating my opinion on the matter. But to say I haven't had experience with direct drive tables and draw conclusions within your post without an answer is in quite poor form. Having been a DJ for eight years, I used quite a variety of DD tables and got to know the Technics SL-1200 mkII in my sleep. I trained DJs on them for six years, did three hours shows once and twice a day for almost eight years. Did carts from them and reviewed records on them. Mounted cartridges and aligned them for as long. Repaired them. Had two in my trunk for remote station broadcasts. Had one in my office during the whole time. You could say I got to know this range of table better than most anyone. The Technics 1300 is actually less well built than the SL-1200. The arm on the 1200 is better and provides better VTA adjustment ability. In addition, the 1300 is FULLY AUTOMATIC, hence the greater price, and another negative in my mind. So as for experience, I have just about as much experience with the Technics DD tables as anyone on this forum. I bet I have set them up no less than several hundred times in all and was in charge of putting EVERY cartridge (in addition to buying the cartridges) on the station tables (we had six SL-1200 tables at one time).

Is this enough experience with the Technics for you? I was in charge of reviewing the albums in print as well, all done via the SL 1200. Sadly, I have probably cued up this table more than my own Linn LP-12 if you count the hours and job status I had at the Station after graduation.

As for other Direct drive units, I have owned a few here as well. I have a Yamaha YP-D6 table which actually bettered the SL-1200 sonically (but surely not in ruggedness). It was a mid 70s Yamaha back when Yamaha was GOOD. I modified this table over the years and it became my companion's table more often than not.

The Linn LP-12 is on another level entirely, from any of these tables. And I found I preferred simple belt drive units, that were fully manual over most of the DD tables. This over the years of experience. I wont even LIST the countless belt-drive tables I have heard; I recommended a few in this thread and above.

So I would appreciate you not accusing me of no experience here before asking.

kh

[HDBRbuilder]

Kelly,

I know all about your experience with the 1200 SERIES...we have discussed this previously...but it still isn't a 1300. And depending on WHICH version of the 1200 you are talking about (and there have been gobs of them), that makes the experience count even less, since the ORIGINAL 1200(just plain old 1200, mind you!!) was more solidly built than later versions, even though the later versions tended to still have pretty damned good build quality! I have made that a "given" as to your comments on the 1300, but you STILL haven't used a 1300 ANY!!...And I have been using one for over a quarter of a century!! I know every fault it has, or could have, and I have made ALL OF THESE KNOWN too! But it is still a great buy for under a hundred bucks!! That is MY POINT!! There are also alot of other great buys out there, and I am aware of that, but when something is a great buy in my opinion, and based on my experience with the PARTICULAR item, I am still gonna say so!

Matter of fact...I have been discussing LOTS of turntables with our friend Justin...and it isn't an SL-1300 that I am leaning toward right now in these discussions and my recommendations...but NOT because the 1300 isn't as good in MY OPINION!! There are MANY factors to consider when buying used turntables besides just performance and value...especially when the risk factor of bidding on one(that is hopefully REALLY in great shape as the seller purports)is involved, and hoping it will arrive undamaged is considered!

One of the drawbacks in the original 1300 and its VERY early brethren in the above situation, is how it has to be shipped and the possibility of damage to it in shipping. As an assembled unit in use, and not being hauled around all the time, there are no worries, IMHO, but to ship one, you HAVE to use separate packing for the platter, and it HAS to be properly packed, to keep dust etc. from getting into its "motor rotor" and "plain bearing" portion. One of the reasons these tended to aquire "noise" over time is due to not having dust covers protecting them as in use for DJ's and such...and fine dust particles get into that motor section and bearing assembly and create problems for them! This is compounded by the factor that MANY of them have been used by travelling DJ's without the platter being properly secured, or carried separately throughout their lifetime, in addition to their general abuse on the job!!

Technics saw VERY early on that their 1200 was becoming highly favored by DJ's, and they addressed this problem of delicate transport in order to accomodate these purchasers...again, very early on...BUT in the process, they ended up with a tougher turntable for transport and lost something in the sound quality...something you can HEAR!!...and this occurred in the very FIRST change they made in that series...and it has to do with the bearings and such in the turntable itself!! But that is sometimes worth the trade-off when looking at marketing aspects!! Either way, the early ORIGINAL version of these is a better turntable in general than any of the latter ones are for home use, and for listening!! Trust me, I know this!!

It remains a paradox to me that one who will say that the Cornwall of mid-70's vintage, with oil-filled caps, in a "B" network is sonically superior to a later version,based on his EXPERIENCE will, on the other hand, state that the SL-1300 is whatever, based on his experience NOT with it, or even its stablemate of its time(the original 1200!), but instead base his comments on the 1300 on his vast experience with a much later version of its original stablemate, and actually believe his comments are valid!! Think about it!! GEEZ!! I never heard a latter 1200 version that was BETTER SOUNDING than the original one!! Yes, they did improve things here and there in the series run, but those improvements were on things they had already screwed up on the series at an earlier date due to changes they had already made to the original version! I have heard them ALL! Hell, the very first changes they made to the 1200 screwed up its performance!!...they redid the isolation feet on it to accomodate their DJ clients...made it tougher for transport, but added noise...and they also decided to reduce the magnet size/motor assembly and add seals to the bearing assembly in that first change, further screwing up its sound, but making it better for transport and DJ use!! See what I mean? They did the same kinda stuff to other models too, then they got cheap on their build quality and such!...especially with the home models, and concentrated on the needs of DJ's alone with the 1200 series' later versions! But the original 1200 was a kick-butt home model, and so was the 1300!

Once again, I readily admit that I don't have the vast experience you seem to have, but what I really DO have experience with, I would hope would be taken freely. I will NOT bull$hit folks about items I have no experience with...although I sometimes do get a bit carried away with sweeping generalizations...LOL!

If I see somebody wanting to get into our hobby on the cheap, and I see a way for them to do so, and still end up with a damned good set-up, often rivalling one FAR MORE expensive, then I will give the person some advice, if I have any to give...if not, then I remain silent!

I have read every one of your posts, no matter WHAT the subject matter, and I highly value your opinions on equipment you have had experience with...but I also would hope to be treated the same, under the same circumstances. That's all.

Matter of fact, when I first got on this BB, I kept hearing about "where's M/H?" and such, so I did searches of your old posts to read them!! And was extremely happy when you returned here!!

I also hope you eventually DO get one of those little H/K 430's for your wife! It is one helluva value! Not only that, but I am very interested in what your comments will be on it! I don't expect you to jump up and down with joy over your listening experience with it, but I really do believe you will be quite surprised!!

Sorry if it seemed I was on a "flame Kelly" rampage, that wasn't my intent at all!

[whell]

This is not what I had hoped to see on this forum as a replacement for the tube amp subject. Started out strong and I was encouraged, but then got a bit wacky.

Anyone want to continue the subject of decent turntables, and which would be OK for a vinyl newbie?

OK, I'll jump in.

Based on some comments on this an other forums, decided to shop around for a TT. didn;t want to spend much, but in the middle of my search, found a Dual 502 at a garage sale. Pretty much manual, save the arm lift mechanism at the end of the record. A little strange that that the platter has strobe markings, but no built in strobe (overhead flourescents work fine as a substitute).

I bought it for $3, brought it home, replaced the belt, fitted it with a Grado Blue, and dropped an Earl Klugh album on it. You guys are right about vinyl, it does offer somthing extra that CD's seem to lack. Musicality in spades.

Record cleaning? Still have my old Discwasher D3, but I don't think that it really gets the job done. I think I might try something I saw elsewhere in another forum about using a vaccuum cleaner with a home made attachment (felt covered attachment) and see if that works better.

In the meantime, its fun wandering around record shops in the area looking for deals on old vinyl!

[HDBRbuilder]

Arftz28:

I am not familiar with your Scott model, but hey...if it sounds good to you, and works, then who cares?...right? The key to buying equipment shouldn't ride on the name, or the price, or anybody's opinions about it nearly so much as how much listening enjoyment it actually brings to its owner. If that Scott sounds good, and works fine, then you have a winner! If you decide later on to get something different just be sure of one thing...that the sound you get from the new item is better than the one you already have! That is what upgrades are SUPPOSED to be all about, anyway...right? Oh, yeah...an upgrade needs to be as or more dependable, too!

Whell,

Glad you found such a nice bargain in that Dual...gotta be one of the best deals I have read of lately!! As for the strobe markings...there were a number of turntables that had no light built in...but those companies normally offered one you could just sit on the edge to check for speed accuracy on occassion, too! Dual was real big on having an option list for their turntables, at least at one time. You could get different bases, dust covers, etc...all kinds of little upgrades on most models. Dual was also really big on promoting the fact that they provided a quality turntable that was still automatic, many of which could be used as changers if wanted by just changing out a few parts on them...it seems strange to us nowadays, but that was a major selling point for them at one time...lots of folks preferred the console stereo set-ups with a record changer, and filled a console cabinet with high quality items, and this was a market Dual kept catering to for many years!

[jhawk92]

Pat-

I am also interested in getting a good, entry-level turntable. How will the Rega compare to some of the others? That sounds like a very reasonable price, so I would be interested in talking with you more. Shoot me an email!

Rob

[mobile homeless]

Just go ahead and email Pat through the forum. He doesnt alway read all the threads here and might miss this, even though he posted within this thread. At $200 with cartridge, the little Rega Planar 2 is a pretty nice deal. I dont believe you will be disappointed for this amount. It is a very simple deck with hardly anything to go wrong. The arm is worth the price alone and better than many of the arms that come with decks in this price range (actually nothing in this range has as good an arm).

The above is the Planar 3, which is a marginally better deck and arm (difference platter), but will cost much more, not worth the price in my opinion (other options start to creep in at that price range). The little 2 is a neat, quality deck and if you ever decide to upgrade, you can get the full amount back via ebay or Audiogon. They basically sell themselves.

kh

[jhawk92]

Sounds good. I'll drop him a line. From what it sounds like this could be a good unit. Check your mail, as I have a few questions for you.

Rob