La Scala Woes

[KT88]

7 hours ago, Desert Noises said:

Alright, I’ve been screwing around some more. Not completely satisfied with my modifications (although they helped) I decided to build my own AL-3 crossovers to get back to the original intent of these speakers. Unfortunately, I threw the original AL crossovers in the trash without first listening to them. I was going to just buy a pair of AL-3, but they are over $700 now! I successfully built a pair of AL-3s (omitting tweeter protection) and I’m pleased with how they turned out. After all that wiring and soldering, I have blisters on my fingers! Now I know why they cost what they do.

 

I returned my La Scalas to bone stock; K-33E, K-55M, and K-77M. For the past week I’ve been critically listening to this configuration with the AL-3 crossovers. After all, this is what I’m going to stick with. Something in the AL-3 got rid of that annoying nasal/boxy/stuffy sound in the bass. Is it the 4mH inductor or the two paralleled 68uF capacitors that are responsible? Aside from that, I just prefer the sound of the good ol K-77 over the CT-120. They just have that top end sparkle. I’m feeling satisfied and my itches are being scratched in the right places.
 

So, here I am having gone full circle with upgrades and changes. Back to original, and that’s what is best for me with the La Scala. All of the upgrade parts now live in my Clonewalls (1526C cast frame, A55G, and CT-120). Oddly enough, my Clonewalls sound about the same as they did before, except for the tweeters. I want to put some K-77s back in there. The top end sparkle is now subdued. Anyone have a good pair of K-77s for sale?

I am in your boat regarding the K77. I have made the experience that I like the older Alnico type even more. But all its dependent of taste amplifier, xover etc. I had some replacement tweeter in use but I came back to the original ones. With the more so „hifi“ CT125 I was not really so happy. When listening mono to one speaker, La Scala 1977, it was obvious for me that only the K77 made a seamless melt regarding frequency blend, dispersion and sound pressure. Now again an acoustic guitar or a singing voice was coming from one source and with the authority I missed before. The sometimes criticized „fried bacon hiss“ is almost gone after some efforts to reach originality.

I have really mint condition 1981 K77M which I do not longer use. So taste is different bit in your system…and you know the K77M very well it could get a second life. I bought them from ebay last summer and the source was a Heresy which looked awesome good. The seller has slaughtered a wonderful speaker in best condition because he knew that he gets more profit for the sum of the parts. The solder tap K55V dual phase plug he sold more expensive than some old Heresy will almost reach. If I were not in Cologne, Germany but in the US a deal would be a no brainer. 

 

Here my impression§s about my K77.

 

[Deang]

One of the biggest problems with mods is the tendency to throw out the baby with the bathwater. 

 

 

[Desert Noises]

27 minutes ago, Crankysoldermeister said:

One of the biggest problems with mods is the tendency to throw out the baby with the bathwater. 

 

 

When growing up, my mom always told me that curiosity killed the cat. Aside from me trashing my ALs, which looked like they had been recovered from the Titanic anyway, I don’t try anything that can’t be reversed back to stock.

 

The weird thing about mods is being biased towards believing that whatever changes you made result in an improvement no matter the outcome. Sometimes it’s just different and not necessarily better.

[Deang]

6 minutes ago, Desert Noises said:

Sometimes it’s just different and not necessarily better.

 

"Sometimes".

 

Over the years, I've noticed a strong correlation between listening levels and how far a person goes with this stuff -- and in what direction.

 

 

 

 

 

[Desert Noises]

13 hours ago, KT88 said:

 

 

Very interesting perspective on the two K77 versions. I’ve only had experience with the K77M variant. I have them in my La Scalas and Heresys. From your impressions it sounds like the K77M is a little bit hotter than the alnico version.

Years ago I “upgraded” my Heresys with CT-125s. It sounded like my tweeters were missing. It didn’t take long for me to put the K77s back in. In my La Scalas, the difference between the K77M and CT120 is a little more subtle, but I still prefer the stock tweeter even though on paper the 120 is better. Looks like you and I are in the minority on the subject of tweeters.

[KT88]

23 minutes ago, Desert Noises said:

When growing up, my mom always told me that curiosity killed the cat. Aside from me trashing my ALs, which looked like they had been recovered from the Titanic anyway, I don’t try anything that can’t be reversed back to stock.

 

The weird thing about mods is being biased towards believing that whatever changes you made result in an improvement no matter the outcome. Sometimes it’s just different and not necessarily better.

You are not alone! 16 years ago I swapped the lowpass coil of my original AA against a „better“ air coil and same to the tweeter coil. It was completely nonsense which I know now. I still have the original AAxover with the rest of the parts firstly the autoformer but I use a Crites AA with my choice of caps (long story why bought the Crites one at all). So when I quitt my office rooms half a year because I now work from home I found the original mostly forgotten AA coils and I was very happy about this „gift“ because I was about to make my Lascala as original as possible…and somewhere I read that even the coils could differ the sound.

Then I packed bags for the move, some for storage and others for the bulky waste. The original AA coils, you guessed it, ended up in a bag for storage but the bag was sorted into the wrong row (by me)...and thrown away with the bulky waste by some helping hand.
That was a stupid roller coaster of emotions, first the happy retrieval and then the stupidest throw away! What feeling remains forever when I think of it: needless annoyance. But life goes on. I check it off under the heading, things the world does not need.

[KT88]

15 minutes ago, Desert Noises said:

Very interesting perspective on the two K77 versions. I’ve only had experience with the K77M variant. I have them in my La Scalas and Heresys. From your impressions it sounds like the K77M is a little bit hotter than the alnico version.

Years ago I “upgraded” my Heresys with CT-125s. It sounded like my tweeters were missing. It didn’t take long for me to put the K77s back in. In my La Scalas, the difference between the K77M and CT120 is a little more subtle, but I still prefer the stock tweeter even though on paper the 120 is better. Looks like you and I are in the minority on the subject of tweeters.

Yes, we seem to have the same taste of hearing the heritage series vintage tweeters.

As you say the K77M is a bit hotter and the K77 alnico has some more subtlety if that is the right wording. But as I said it also depends on the amp, the source, the room etc. If you are interested in my K77M just write a message, I do not know how much is shipping to the US. But in the motherland of Klipsch there should be more offers than over here.

[OO1]

 the K77 Alnico tweeters sound-wise  are an old school  sound that is Made in Heaven  for  Jazz  as well as Electronics , it's a smooth , very detailed tweeter ,, the k77M can handle more power , that's the only  difference  .

[KT88]

20 minutes ago, 001 said:

 the K77 Alnico tweeters sound-wise  are an old school  sound that is Made in Heaven  for  Jazz  as well as Electronics , it's a smooth , very detailed tweeter ,, the k77M can handle more power , that's the only  difference  .

Randy I'm sorry but in this case I have to disagree. I had for three months the K77M in my Lascala, same amps and source, same room all same. It was in the meantime until I got my K77 Alnico back. The Alnicos definitely sound like you describe for e.g. jazz but the K77M sound different, a bit harder and less emotional. The K77M are not a bad tweeter but it is different. My two cents.

[OO1]

1 hour ago, KT88 said:

Randy I'm sorry but in this case I have to disagree. I had for three months the K77M in my Lascala, same amps and source, same room all same. It was in the meantime until I got my K77 Alnico back. The Alnicos definitely sound like you describe for e.g. jazz but the K77M sound different, a bit harder and less emotional. The K77M are not a bad tweeter but it is different. My two cents.

Herr  Heinz  ,  what kind of diaphragms are you using in the K77M  and Alnico

[KT88]

12 minutes ago, 001 said:

Herr  Heinz  ,  what kind of diaphragms are you using in the K77M  and Alnico

Both tweeter types have the original diaphragms. The K77 M were out of a Heresy which was never opened before and my K77 Alnico had been tested and kept original. Unlike the K55V diaphragms which I changed with great success the magnetize shop recommended me to keep them.

 

But you make a good and valid point, Randy, I only know from believe that the diaphragms of the K77M are original and not cheap Chinese replacements. I never opened any of the my K77 or K77M myself.

Peace😀👍

[OO1]

6 hours ago, KT88 said:

Randy, I only know from believe that the diaphragms of the K77M are original

Heinz , .EV had various types of Diaphragms for the older EV-T35  ,  some were made with Be leads , others were not .  

[Islander]

On 12/19/2021 at 9:21 AM, jason str said:

I had a little propane soldering kit I used for years, just ran across it looking for something else. Sometimes electricity is not available and it's needed for sensitive work.

 

It's Butane, my apologies. Haven't used it in years.😀

 

Is there a pair of burnt-looking dinner knives in the case with it, or is that era long past?

[RRR]

12 hours ago, Islander said:

 

Is there a pair of burnt-looking dinner knives in the case with it, or is that era long past?

I did have a scraper used to aid in melting the rubber soundproof coating over GM air conditioning evaporator housings that were all too commonly replaced.

[Islander]

2 minutes ago, jason str said:

I did have a scraper used to aid in melting the rubber soundproof coating over GM air conditioning evaporator housings that were all too commonly replaced.

 

Heat is a useful tool.  I bought a heat gun (similar in size and shape to a hair dryer, but with much hotter settings) years ago, and was surprised to see how often I used it.  For example, for heat shrink tubing, it’s miles ahead of using a lighter.

[RRR]

1 hour ago, Islander said:

 

Heat is a useful tool.  I bought a heat gun (similar in size and shape to a hair dryer, but with much hotter settings) years ago, and was surprised to see how often I used it.  For example, for heat shrink tubing, it’s miles ahead of using a lighter.

For sure, still have Grandpas Milwaukee. Just used it to shrink the plastic over my crappy windows.

[tigerwoodKhorns]

13 minutes ago, jason str said:

 

Oh man, that is one sweet dryer!  You have the more desirable model with the top load lint trap.  The door mounted one takes a 90 degree bend and can build up lint.  Yours makes a little mess when cleaning, but is much safer. 

 

I have had a Lady Kenmore Series 90 washer and Whirlpool dryer for over 30 years. 

 

Just replaced and cleaned each over the last few years.  These things are really well thought out and easy to work on.

 

I needed a transmission shaft and found a local repair person on Craigslist.   He said that people get rid of these, get new ones and then come to him to buy the older models again as they last forever. 

 

If you have to service, but genuine Whirlpool parts.  I put some plastic pads in from Amazon and my washer still vibrated, bought the Whirlpool parts for much more but everything spins nicely now. 

 

No more 60s muscle cars for me, these are my hot rods now. 

 

 

[RRR]

7 minutes ago, tigerwoodKhorns said:

 

Oh man, that is one sweet dryer!  You have the more desirable model with the top load lint trap.  The door mounted one takes a 90 degree bend and can build up lint.  Yours makes a little mess when cleaning, but is much safer. 

 

I have had a Lady Kenmore Series 90 washer and Whirlpool dryer for over 30 years. 

 

Just replaced and cleaned each over the last few years.  These things are really well thought out and easy to work on.

 

I needed a transmission shaft and found a local repair person on Craigslist.   He said that people get rid of these, get new ones and then come to him to buy the older models again as they last forever. 

 

If you have to service, but genuine Whirlpool parts.  I put some plastic pads in from Amazon and my washer still vibrated, bought the Whirlpool parts for much more but everything spins nicely now. 

 

No more 60s muscle cars for me, these are my hot rods now. 

 

 

One of my lifelong friends gave me his old set when I moved here, the washer just went out and replaced it. I can no longer throw large appliances around to repair, I call for service like everyone else these days.

[tigerwoodKhorns]

1 hour ago, jason str said:

One of my lifelong friends gave me his old set when I moved here, the washer just went out and replaced it. I can no longer throw large appliances around to repair, I call for service like everyone else these days.

Sorry to hear this but you have to do only what you can do.  You missed a treat.  They are built like a tank and very easy to take apart and service.  I admired the engineering when I did this.  

[captainbeefheart]

26 minutes ago, tigerwoodKhorns said:

Sorry to hear this but you have to do only what you can do.  You missed a treat.  They are built like a tank and very easy to take apart and service.  I admired the engineering when I did this.  

 

We have one and I agree they are very easy to repair. Usually the big main function/timer switch goes bad, I have two spares I pulled from units because new ones are like $150 each. I actually have a whole box labeled "dryer parts" that is filled with every single part needed for the unit. Most people don't know the schematic is hidden inside the top panel where the switches are, it's dead simple. Our daughter is at least on her third set of washer and dryer because they keep purchasing the more modern types, their latest is only a year or two old and they already have had to call for service on it. They purchase name brands, I believe they have a GE one now and it's total junk.

 

The Armana brand is the same as Whirlpool, all the same parts and same design. I found a working one on the side of the road this summer and gutted all the good parts from it and scrapped the sheet metal at our towns recycling center. More parts to keep my dryer running forever.