Merry Christmas...

[Deang]

In spite of the fact that Messiah was not born on this day --

this day simply being the result of the merging of Pagan worship practices on the Winter Solstice and Christianity --

and has been for the most part set apart for the blowing of bank accounts, and the resulting depression --

Consider...

The Mystery of God. The Mystery foretold by Prophets ages ago, and which angels longed to understand.

God, coming in the likeness of a man, through which He reconciled Himself with the Universe -- bringing all back to Him.

Sin came through Adam, and biologically speaking -- infected all that sprang forth from Him. This necessitated a birth without Man, and so Mary conceived -- bringing forth The Child.

The Child accepts all who come to Him, to be reborn in His likeness. To give the gift of God's Spirit, which is the seal promising what is further to come -- The perfection we yearn for. But not only us, but all that is -- for not even a tree has been seen the way God originally created it. The Cosmos also fell into corruption through sin, and so entropy reigns. All is running down -- resulting in death.

It is shameful what men do with the truth. Distorting and twisting it to their own destruction. "Do not be deceived, God is not mocked, for whatsoever a man sows -- that also will he reap." Do not reject God because of the evil men do in His name -- this is the greatest test.

Look to The Child, draw Him to your bosom, cradle Him -- and feel the Love He has for you.

If you try to understand the mystery the way a child would, you think to yourself -- "It cannot be so simple, for God would not do this." If you try to understand it the way God really understands it, you think -- "It cannot be so complicated, for God would not do this." Do not entangle your mind. You only need to whisper to Him. He will hear.

"When He comes, we shall see Him as he is -- for we shall be like Him."

Merry Christmas everyone!!

[mobile homeless]

Does this mean you didnt get me anything for Christmas?

[Chris Robinson]

Dean, thanks for the thought ...

Although I can't vouch for the Messiah, I can say that Santa brought "The Guide to High End Audio", and "PWK, The Life, The Legend." It was a good start to the day.

The kids are all played out, wrapping is piled in corners, and the turkey is turning on the grill ... and it's snowing to beat the band. 15-18" coming this afternoon and tonight.

It doesn't get much better than this.

Merry Christmas to you all ...

[leok]

To all the 2-Channel enthusiasts: Enjoy the holidays.

And Dean .. For a day, enjoy the systems you have. You've spent substantial effort getting them where they are. I'm sure they're great the way they are.

Leo

[NOSValves]

We received a beautiful 5" of snow lastnight here it sure does make it look like Christmas all clean and fresh !! Merry Christmas to everyone !!!!!

[Pland]

Hi Guys,

It's going to be in the 60's today,so my 20 year old son and I are headed downtown to the Riverwalk for margaritas,mexican food and mariachis.Felis Navidad from San Antonio,Texas.

Best,

Pat Landrum

[HDBRbuilder]

Sitting here listening to Celine Dion do serious justice to such a traditional song of this season as "O Holy Night" through the H/K430 and the Heresys really makes the holiday special to me, and is a beautiful reminder of the original intent of this time. So, as I happily stuff the sweets sent to me by some of the forum members into myself, let me please reiterate the basic theme this season is so wonderfully intended to instill in us all: "To all on earth, Peace and Goodwill towards ALL Mankind!"

And, may the upcoming new year be both peaceful and bountiful for you all!

[dubai2000]

No snow but a lot of rain today in my part of Germany -some wintery climate in other parts though. I hope everybody had some nice days, so all the best from the other side of the 'lake'.

Wolfram

[Clipped and Shorn]

"The Cosmos also fell into corruption through sin, and so entropy reigns. All is running down -- resulting in death."

Mother nature wants you to stand in the corner until you get it.

[Deang]

"I will destroy the wisdom of the wise;

the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate."

"Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. Jews demand miraculous signs and Greeks look for wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God."

"See, I lay a stone in Zion,

a chosen and precious cornerstone,

and the one who trusts in him

will never be put to shame."Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe,

"The stone the builders rejected

has become the capstone,^" and,

"A stone that causes men to stumble

and a rock that makes them fall."

[mobile homeless]

I will probably regret posting this and even changed my original post to humor but after seeing this last reply, I couldn't help it and something just kicked in....

That first passage was bad enough, wallowing yet again in the Man is Sin motif. It was filled with more didactic vision that had a mask of goodwill yet more fully exemplified Man's own distrust and negative view of human nature. Man left up to his own will brings about BAD with only the forgiveness of God to save the day.

I found very little there remotely resembling good Christmas spirit, yet there it concluded with a resounding "MERRY CHRISTMAS" as if that was supposed to somehow pull the sin-yearn-for-God's-salvation grace to a more uplifting light. The only thing I remotely agreed with was the depiction of some of the commercialism of Christmas but this was quickly connected to Man's lack of connection, either figuratively or literally, to thy Lord.

This last response went even deeper into the mire. It actually managed to offend, yet do so with such clarity, it might as well have been a sparkling clean glass window. That last stanza is one more "either follow thy Lord, or you will be doomed to trials and tribulations" send-up, just another in the line of Man's attempt to come up with something that will encapsulate his choices and existence in a safe, small, tidy nutshell, that all at once gives everlasting life and happiness if you "do the right thing," like a child's wish to be filled for no bedtime in a perpetual Disney World with Mickey Mouse replaced with beautiful angels clad in pure white.

While I find some of the positives in Christianity to be very worthwhile such as the notion of love and forgiveness, along with veiled hint at Peace, much of it strikes me the same as watching a bad Hanna-Barbara cartoon with thinly drawn characters that exemplify good and evil and explain the complex with the simple, thus pacifying Man's need to have "meaning" or explanation of existence handed in a simple nutshell to show what should or shouldn't be done to get the carrot...or to seek approval from thy "ultimate" parent. On the other hand, I do believe the community spirit of an openminded church provides a great outlet and postive experience when done with care.

Yes, this could be taken a bit cynical to some. Ironically enough, I find fundamental Christianity extremely painful, especially when it pops up in all the wrong places. It is presumptuous and overlooks the much wider picture of beliefs and theories, replacing them with the righteous answer to Life's complexity with black and white blocking out the multiple shades of gray.

Irony of all irony, the LOVE of guns seems to go hand in hand with thy love of rote Bible worship.

kh

[Allan Songer]

I once had a Biblical Reference as a license plate for my 1966 Lotus Cortina:

2KI 9:20

Look it up!!

Even the bible-thumpers loved this one!!

[mobile homeless]

I re-read my post and sagged imagining others reading it and what would follow... I see it bringing nothing but horror. Lo and behold, my fine friend Allan arrives to save the day!

Heh.... Indeed.

9:20 And the watchman told, saying, He came even unto them, and cometh not again:

and the driving like the driving of Jehu the son of Nimshi; for he driveth furiously.

While normally not a fan of vanity plates, this one was beautiful.

kh

ps- I seem to be going to hell in a handbasket...

[mike stehr]

Lordy!

Gee Holsten, that was your best post yet!

[Chris Robinson]

Well, I'll chime in here since I've been having my period all week as I emerge from the depths of hell and depression called Christmas. I love it for children, but it is, annually, a very dark place for me (I lost my mother to ALS on Christmas Eve and my father to a cancer diagnosis on the day after Christmas ... and oh yeah, my father left my mother on Christmas afternoon in 1976 ... and my ex-wife birthday is 12/27, the same day she officially pulled the plug on our marriage). Needless to say, this week usually involves large quantities of Scotch for me as I try to pile-drive all these feelings into retreat. My apologies for anything idiotic I've posted this week.

I don't say this to draw pity, but add it for context to my feelings on this. Life isn't always easy but it does shape your view of the world. The occasional adversity has shaped mine. It's been said that you'll never find an agnostic in the trenches of the battlefield ... well, I'll bet it's true.

My sister is a minister and heads pastoral care at a children's hospital in Boston. We've debated the institutional vs. practical approach to religion for years. She in the trenches everyday, but still goes to church every Sunday -- yes, religiously, you might say -- yet I only go for marriages, baptisms and funerals. Her view of religion is structural and normative, mine is lacking in both descriptors and is more ad hoc.

I got to this place by realizing (FOR ME) "God is in the details" of life, not in the Bible per se or Sunday morning church services. For me, the essence of religion lay in the advocation of benevolence between people, doing good things, practicing random acts of kindness. Charity is the giving of time and interest -- and resources when not scarce -- but asking for nothing in return. Just by letting it happen when it needs to should cast more positive energy than 100 church sessions, IMHO. I also have long-believed that good deeds beget good deeds, kind of "pay it forward" ...

I also believe that most people are kind by nature but distrustful by early adversity or negative societal conditioning. Everybody seems to look for the quid pro quo ... i.e., "why are you being nice to me?" or "what's the catch?" It takes a little time for people to understand that maybe there ISN'T a scam going on ... It's selfish for me to do this because it makes me feel good when I do it. I may be crazy but I'm happier for it.

This approach differs quite a bit from Dean's thesis where chaos and entropy is the default state. Judging by world affairs currently, one could draw that conclusion ... but I think it would be wrong. I travel quite a bit for work and have seen a bit of the world -- and one of the most interesting things I've noticed is that the VAST MAJORITY of people are kind with noble intentions. It takes a lot of work everyday to be a good parent, a good and loyal spouse, a good provider ... but there are hundreds of millions of people who are doing just that everyday, all around the world. Yes, there are creeps who blow up restaurants, knock down tall buildings, and just plain murder people in large quantities. But I believe that they are in the infinite minority and it is the love and kindness of people en masse that bind the world together. Man, if people were inherently like bin Laden, the world would have self-destructed milleniums ago.

Dean, I certainly respect your right to hold a view and even put it on this forum, but I hope that you'll find a way to keep up some hope and realize that there is a lot of good work being done by very positive and optimistic people.

Of course, I may have read your post wrongly ... It was a little serpentine in places ...

As my Japanese buddies say, "Jorry Horridays"

[Deang]

Thoughtful posts, but I think maybe you guys missed my intent.

I really put some thought into that first post, and it's a shame that folks have such a difficult time with Biblical concepts and words. Words are vehicles of thoughts, and you can't really understand the thoughts unless you know the meaning of the words. I often make the mistake of assuming people understand the terms.

The word "sin" means "missing the mark" or "falling short". It is not a word used to issue condemnation, but to merely point out a fact regarding our "condition". Most humans ARE basically good, but they are not perfect. The first humans were perfect, but something entered in that "corrupted" or "adulterated" the original design. We are therefore seen as being in a "fallen" state.

I use entropy as evidence of this. In spite of how "good" we strive to be, there is disease, suffering, and death -- and these things were not part of the original natural order. Metal rusts, wood rots, asteroids break apart, etc -- all "unnatural" events from the Christian, Biblical perspective.

I would like to point out that if everything is so peachy-keen, and everyone is A-O.K. as is -- then why this "need" to be good. What is with all the "striving"? One of Chris' points should point to the obvious: Random acts of kindness are not the norm. Why not? And why does someone look for the "catch" when a kind act is performed? You see, something is amiss with us.

Kelly, the part of the post you found agonizing was actually intended to create the complete opposite reaction. You remind of how my dad used to respond if I brought something up. I knew the reason he reacted the way he did was because he had images of televanglists dancing in his head. If you read the post again, I was basically asking to focus on the true intent God had through Christ, and not to focus on those who use Christianity as a means to further their own ends, or who use it to hurt others.

I am a person very much in the spirit of what Chris believes. However, I also believe the Bible is important, and I enjoy reading it. The Gospel has some "bite" in it, and retaining the fullness of the message makes it honest.

The second post was in response to Clipped who indicated "I didn't get it". I was trying to tell him what he "wasn't getting". Missed by you guys was the great passage where God says He was was pleased to save, by the foolishness of what was preached. Seems God full well understands how this whole thing is viewed by most.

Kelly, your Hanna Babara comment was funny -- especially since I made mention in my first post about how those respond when the whole thing is explained to them as a child understands it. Again, pick up a copy of Lewis' Mere Christianity.

[HornEd]

DeanG, sorry I missed your fact laden "commercial" (a word used only as a reflection of gaudy Christmas Tithes that further Christian endeavors)... yes, of one thing biblical scholars generally agree upon... Christ was not born on December 25th. As I recall (actually I am not quite THAT old!), the Holy Roman Empire had trouble stamping out pagan festivals that entailed chopping down a tree and bringing it inside for a winter solistace ritual... or worshipping the fertility goddess Ishtar (Oester or Easter if you prefer) with eggs and bunnies. So they arbitrarily made the days that recall the birth and death of Christ to coinside with pagan holidays as a way to further subdue the rebelious folks when Christianity was spread faster by Roman swords than by Christian witness. Strange, most of what we have been taught in this country's schools that Islam was spread by "the Koran or the sword" approach... that does not seem to hold up to more careful historic scrutiny.

Whatever the truth of these matters be... it is not history (particularly since it is often at best naught but a concensus opinion... and one often shaded for less than historic reasons) that is important... but the choices we make and the footsteps we take as an actual rather (than wishfully thought) follow through. Clearly, DeanG takes his path seriously... and that requires him to give us an opportunity. Thanks DeanG for being a person of your conviction. Of course, we know that by your faith in RF-7's as sonic translators to our ears of Handel's Messiah.

And then there is the too often Silent Knight... Chris on the rocks with Scotch... as he bytes hs way through a world of sushi lines and silicon chips. Ah, yes, good Chris, hath not your sister told you that good works will not get you into the Kingdom! But, that should not matter, sir knight, for good works are their own reward, instantly right here on earth, especially if you are the only one that knows you did it! Devout Jews have been practising such good works for thousands of years... although few outside their religion know of the practice. In fact, some say the highest form of this practice is when a serious amount of value is given and the donor never iknows what good works were done with it. I am not of the Hebrew faith but I have performed the task of applying the good works for wealthy Jews who placed their resources at my disposal so that good works could be done.

I have witnessed people of the Islamic faith do similar good works in response to their understanding of the Koran. I have seen supposedly "faithless" Chinese born to godless Communism do similar acts that reflected the good within the human spirit. Indeed, Christianity does not have a lock on good works... no wonder they don't recognize them as a Key to Heaven. Frankly, I would be a little suspect of a God who could be bribed with frequent praise and occasional good works... or who allowed entry on the less than whole-hearted mumbling of a phrase or three.

Yes, indeed, Chris... a few good works here and there is good for what ails you... why, done right, it's better than a bottle of Scotch on December 27th... whatever your personal history may have been. Then again, I remember using the Scotch remedy on Saint Patrick's Day... you see, March 17th was the day the Superior Court Judge admonished me for not wearing green in front of an Irish judge... I sure wasn't expecting that on the day that was the official end to my first marriage. By the way... the late Hon. Frank Blum could not have been more Jewish... or a greater help to a young man of 21 years who was struggling with the right thing to do for a mentally ill wife. Ending the marriage was the prescription of her psychiatrists... and led to my miltary career in psychology.

Good works are more catching than a cold... and we need an epidemic of them to sweep across every border... especially our own! And not just one day a year... whatever the reason for the season. Now there's a phrase that sticks in my craw... "Christ is the reason for the Season" falls a little short when the season was forced as a ploy to subdue people who, by and large, did not believe in Christ. And, that's okay too. There is nothing so personal as one's own mortality and the prospect of being granted an extention. So, both Dean and Chris were getting up close and personal with us in their respective ways... and I, for one, am glad that they did... even if they were on different wave lengths... it all works on the Klipsch Forum... people who think it doesn't ought to stay off the "General" Forum. I find that I get to know Forum folks better when they reveal more of their personalities in life value related aspects of this Forum.

And now for an audio related commercial. You will find that the 5.1 DVD update of "Ben Hur" is one of the most superb audio re-mastering jobs of an old Christian movie classic that I have yet encountered. The chariot race is even more interesting once you find out on the DVD extras the particulars of how it was filmed. So for all you who complain about posts that don't include some audio aspect... here was your carrot. -HornEd

[Chris Robinson]

Dean, that was a good wrap ... I just need to read through the thread a bit more to make sure I've got the loose ends in the right places ...

There are many ways to achieve the end-result, just as long as they come from a good place.

[Chris Robinson]

Ed, you are an amazing person.

[Deang]

Dammit Ed, you almost made me cry.