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Why should I have a separate 2 channel amp?


gigantic
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2 minutes ago, gigantic said:

it's my understanding (I may be wrong here) that if I use a line out to a 2nd amp instead of a preamp out, that if I change the volume on the receiver, it won't change the volume on the preamp, but if i go from a pre out to an amp in, the volume will adjust accordingly.
 

Sounds right... Are you thinking about the NAD seperates and keeping your AVR hooked also?

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7 minutes ago, gigantic said:

it's my understanding (I may be wrong here) that if I use a line out to a 2nd amp instead of a preamp out, that if I change the volume on the receiver, it won't change the volume on the preamp, but if i go from a pre out to an amp in, the volume will adjust accordingly.
 

Yes, you are right about the line out jacks on a receiver having a fixed output.

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Just now, billybob said:

Sounds right... Are you thinking about the NAD seperates and keeping your AVR hooked also?


yep. my thought is to use the AVR to power the satellite array, then use a 2 channel integrated amp that is perhaps less neutral and clinical, to power my Heresy speakers. The 80's NAD amps seem to fit that bill, although in full disclosure, I should admit that I also have tube aspirations, if not a vaccum budget...

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10 hours ago, Islander said:

 

Claude, I’m glad you agree, but it appears that some parts I typed may have been ambiguous.  When I typed “superior circuit design”, I didn’t just mean the layout of the wires, I meant all the bits that are part of the design, including the carefully selected better quality parts, the ICs and transistors among others.

 

No matter; it appears that we agree that modern amplifiers and some other components tend to outperform earlier versions of these units, as designers and engineers learn more and have access to better parts.

Indeed. Like the term "the Tide raises all Boats," audio technology advances just as fast as other tech does. We have come a long way from 741 op amps and 555 timer circuits. Yet, those are still available pretty cheap for non audio applications. Not all old stuff is rendered obsolete by newer stuff, but in Audio, it's very rare that we go backwards since we have had 100 years of accumulated improvements available today, much cheaper than before, as well as outrageously more expensive. I heard the $$250,000 Dan D'Agostino Relentless amps on a 1.35 million dollar system (Wilson XvX with Subs) and a $600,000 turntable as part of the system as an extreme example.

 

In the 80's I did circuit boards for a transconductance power amp that used MOSFET transistors. The chief engineer used an Integrated Circuit for the input. It was a really good amplifier that would compete today if the company was still in business. Because of Marketing pressure, he had to come out with a "discrete transistor version" that sold for 50% more. He said it was a very difficult challenge get that "golden ear" version of the amp to measure and sound as good as the IC version. He just shook his head and rolled his when asked about why the expensive version outsold the cheaper one when measurements and extensive listening revealed absolutely ZERO differences. Except, of course,  a "feel good" thing from buyers who believed the Bullshit about discrete transistors being better than the IC's. It depends.

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52 minutes ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

Upper end AVR's are more affordable than separates, with really great perfomance in 2 channels, which was the OP's request to start with!

 

Most upper end AVR's have good sound quality. Many bottom end AVR's may not.

 

Most separate components have good sound quality. There are some cheap separates that don't, but I will not lump all separates together as a category, because that would not be fair.

 

I like my high end AVR's, mainly for the features, but they sound really good too.

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2 minutes ago, gigantic said:


yep. my thought is to use the AVR to power the satellite array, then use a 2 channel integrated amp that is perhaps less neutral and clinical, to power my Heresy speakers. The 80's NAD amps seem to fit that bill, although in full disclosure, I should admit that I also have tube aspirations, if not a vaccum budget...

Will ask others for their connectivity thoughts. As to the NAD seperates, would have thought you wanted 2 systems. One stereo and one HT by the sound of it, instead of both interconnected.

If price reasonable as said, and if will help what you want to do now, great.

Tubes may well come into it, at some point, in future.

Hope haven't confused any issue.

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1 minute ago, Khornukopia said:

 

Most upper end AVR's have good sound quality. Many bottom end AVR's may not.

 

Most separate components have good sound quality. There are some cheap separates that don't, but I will not lump all separates together as a category, because that would not be fair.

 

I like my high end AVR's, mainly for the features, but they sound really good too.

A year or so ago, I bought an older Sony AVR (pro-logic) AVR at an antique shop for $10. I figured it was worth that to hook-up in my barn (garage). I hooked up my Heresy's to it and it rocked! I could not believe it. 

 

Typically, those Sony's always sounded "thin" to me compared to an Onkyo, Pioneer, Denon, etc. but it is the best sounding Sony I have come across. 

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3 minutes ago, gigantic said:

it looks like I've found an upgrade for my AVR, A mid level Marantz 1605 that will have adequate power for my surround system and with a separate amp, more than enough power for my Heresies (even as it is, I suspect)

 

Just make sure has the remote control. A bargaining chip if not.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, billybob said:

Just make sure has the remote control. A bargaining chip if not.

 

 

seller wants $100 and is including 3 speakers and a subwoofer of an unknown brand that I can't quite make out in the photos. I can afford spend an additional $35 on a remote if i have to. selling the speakers should cover it.

 

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54 minutes ago, Curious_George said:

Sony's always sounded "thin" to me compared to an Onkyo, Pioneer, Denon, etc. but it is the best sounding Sony I have come across. 

Never had Sony AVR, only Denon and mostly Onkyo. Kept moving up until I could afford Yamaha, stuff. Pre-Pro and Power Amps. Nothing bad to say about Yamaha anything, including Pianos, guitars, drums, and PA gear! So yes, they know music from inside out. Oh yeah, motocycles too, but don't have one.

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25 minutes ago, gigantic said:

seller wants $100 and is including 3 speakers and a subwoofer of an unknown brand that I can't quite make out in the photos. I can afford spend an additional $35 on a remote if i have to. selling the speakers should cover it.

 

Your progressive and practical frugality is admirable! Bang for buck be a good theme song.

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55 minutes ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

Never had Sony AVR, only Denon and mostly Onkyo. Kept moving up until I could afford Yamaha, stuff. Pre-Pro and Power Amps. Nothing bad to say about Yamaha anything, including Pianos, guitars, drums, and PA gear! So yes, they know music from inside out. Oh yeah, motocycles too, but don't have one.

I have (technically, it is my wifes) a Yamaha V-Star 650. It is a mid-size cruiser. It is a blast to drive. she doesn't ride much anymore, so I mainly ride it around the campground. My workamper has an Indian 2015 Roadmaster and he thinks he is "The King" on it. It's a very nice bike, but he can't afford to pay attention...

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2 hours ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

Your progressive and practical frugality is admirable! Bang for buck be a good theme song.

My ex wife would have said that I’m parsimonious to a fault, but in this case, I won a round trip to Score City: the receiver is in new condition and will meet my AV needs and then some; likewise, the speakers, well reviewed, Canadian-made Energy Connoisseur center channel and surround speakers and a Velodyne 10B sub, all for a crisp C note. He even has the remote! I also got some high quality cables for the sub and a quartet of banana plugs for the speakers. I know I should wait to plug it in to pass judgement, but I’m justifiably pleased. 

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Now it gets interesting: what to drive  the Heresies? I could do a solid state integrated amp, which is sensible enough, I’m seeing a few options available locally on fb marketplace and Craigslist , notably a not quite vintage Yamaha VX 770 at a very reasonable price and an almost new Yamaha VX-701 for quite a bit more. Tubes really have my interest, but I’ll concede they’re not necessarily better, just different. On the semi diy front, I’m seeing a number of Dynaco amps in various states of repair from $500-900 that would be fun projects to recap and tighten up and at the other end of the scale, the Willsenton R8 and R300 are at the limit of my budget and would only need some tube rolling, although they could be pressed into service immediately. What to do? The Yamaha vx770 is only $85, so I think I’ll get that for the time being, until I get a chunk of cash for something perhaps nicer or at least more expensive. 

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