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Why should I have a separate 2 channel amp?


gigantic
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1 hour ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

And the bullshit keeps on rolling along.......................you have to equalize variable in order to have a valid comparison, which, clearly, the naysayers here do not do.


It’s my opinion. You don’t get to call bullshit on my opinion. You can take that shit somewhere else…..

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1 hour ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

Your opinion has no basis. Another cheap shot while hiding behind a keyboard, like all the internet people with opinions stated without proof............................something PWK didn't approve of.


WT actual F? His opinion has no basis? It’s a GD opinion. 

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1 hour ago, gigantic said:

I messaged the seller of the NAD 3020 and it turned into an epic snipe hunt. I went to the address I was given and the young man who answered the door, looked at me like I was crazy. I messaged the seller and they ghosted me, although I could see that they'd read my missives. $90 for an NAD 3020 was too good to be true, anyway.

Find anything and you want to, run it by the guys here. Sounds like jokers having fun at cheapthrills...

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9 minutes ago, Shakeydeal said:


It’s my opinion. You don’t get to call bullshit on my opinion. You can take that shit somewhere else…..

Fwiw, I see it as one persons "comical" opinion being countered with "bullshit." Lol.😁

On 9/21/2022 at 2:59 AM, Shakeydeal said:

OP, see above post for example of amp=amp thinking. I know, I know, it’s comical, but I say let ‘em have their fun…..

 

On 9/21/2022 at 8:53 AM, Shakeydeal said:

 

Touche'

 

1 hour ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

I was, and still am, learning to follow the expression: "Never argue with a fool, people might not know the difference." I just don't argue too much, and I DO know the difference!

Thanks, btw. 👍

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6 minutes ago, Shakeydeal said:

So let me get this straight. If I don’t believe an audio/video receiver sounds as good as a well designed two channel amplifier, I am a fool? 
 

Ok, I just wanted to make sure I understand the rules……..

We'll, I wouldn't say that, but otoh I wouldn't try and talk someone who has a contrary opinion out of what they are hearing....I also appreciate those with a scientific background bringing their experience to the table.

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1 hour ago, ClaudeJ1 said:

Yes and "fun" is what people call out other people when they themselves have never designed an amplifier.

 

 You been taking notes from the Captain? Jeesh another thread off the rails because the "smart" guys can't accept that people hear things differently, this is a hobby meant to be fun not a pissing match. Obviously different amps sound different otherwise as stated before why wouldn't there only be a single best design? Some of these threads look like they belong over at ASR..

 

 When I switch amps things that stand out to me which are easy to recognize are bass impact slam clarity, very easy to perceive a difference in bass. Also soundstage size width and depth can sometimes vary by a lot. Going from my Sunfire amp to my Carver tube amp there is a large and very noticeable difference. Treble or upper midrange my speakers tend to be bright, some amps really bring that out while others seem to be smoother. Scale-- voices can sound "bigger" or smaller with different amps even tone can be different. These are just some of the most obvious things I can hear when swapping amps and in some cases the differences are really quite large and immediately noticeable. 

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One of the things about this hobby is how diverse people's needs and interests are. Me personally, I am a multichannel music, concert, and movie aficionado and work backwards from there on a best-bang-for-your-buck and diminishing returns philosophy. 😊

{Note: I really benefited from Scientific discussions at AVSFORUM: https://www.avsforum.com/threads/would-i-benefit-from-an-external-amp.1532635/#post-24742433

Otoh, I gather there are those who like to continually buy and test components especially 2-channel/stereo guys. As others have mentioned, most of this source material is being consumed with headphones and ear buds and those who still like to listen with speakers are in the category mentioned above. That's my take.

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On 9/19/2022 at 2:12 PM, gigantic said:

What's the benefit? also, is there an advantage to vintage 70's gear, which is all the rage these days, vs amps and receivers from the 80's and even now? 

Back to our regularly scheduled program based on the OP.......................

 

All other things being equal? No benefit. There are very benefits in going backwards in technology. The exception would be: only if you love desoldering tired old Electrolytic Capacitors and replacing them with Gold Nichicon caps and also spraying de-Ox-It on the pots and switches, there are very few benefits, other than pretty, shiny aluminum knobs the Japanese were champs at creating. Sound benefits? None that can be proven otherwise.

 

In case you missed it when your read the naysayers Opinions with missing or incomplete data.

 

On the "even now," part of the question? Are you asking about now buying 70's and 80's stuff?

 

If so, Dr. Matti Otala's TIM distortion discovery in Solid State POWER amps in the 70's was not fully implemented in most consumer products until the 80's. After that, Low TIM implementation marched forward in all amp technologies as part of the goal and taken pretty much taken for granted. RIP to the man who found the slew rate issues that allowed Tube Amps to sound better than SS for too long. You can't ignore history if you want to give opinions based on progress and facts.

 

If "even now" means buying new stuff, it's hard to go wrong with modern class D performance if you want real performance without raising the ambient temperature of your room in the process.

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2 hours ago, Shakeydeal said:

So let me get this straight. If I don’t believe an audio/video receiver sounds as good as a well designed two channel amplifier, I am a fool? 

You didn't get anything straight about what I said, obviously. You called yourself a fool, not me. But I do consider those who take internet opinions as absolute, as foolish. Especially those opinions assumed to be facts not immediately backed up by experiences, scientific findings, history, facts, etc. as part of HOW and WHY the opinions are even so STRONGLY stated to being with.

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So to skip all the bullshit (even my own)................I have owned Denon, Yamaha, and various Onkyon AVR's in the past 15 years. I now use separate Pre Pro and discrete power amps, with Gain Controls to allow the full operational benefits of AV technology as part of a BETTER 2 channel experience.

 

Starting with the modern remote controls. Add to that having 1 or 2 SUBwoofer outputs, which all main speakers need, but you still have the option Not to use it when living in an apartment (I lived in both apartment and houses so I know about pissing off neighbors with to much bass). Now throw in the ability of having Room Correction for 2 channel as well as 5, 6, 7, 9 or 11 total channels if you wish, but we are talking about using only TWO. So the issue of not meeting the power specs written by marketing department does not apply for 2 channel usage, as stated by the OP.

 

Everyone who ever heard my "Indy System" in 2 channels with subs, that used an Onkyo AVR as it's main control unit, driving a Klipsch K-402 mid with K-1133, and B&C DE-250/QSC horn lens with signal level output to power amp/gain unit on my Quarter Pie horns said it was the best they ever heard with subs off, and the best they ever FELT with my subs ON.

 

So going forward is a better choice than going Backwards as other opinions have suggested here.

 

But hey, it's your ears and your money so you can choose all the bullshit you want here. Mine or anyone else's. But I do claim to have lots of experience that says "it depends."  Either way it's your choice after all. 

 

 

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