Can anyone explain why I cant hear any difference?

[Flevoman]

For a week now, I own a self-made 300B SET amplifier. It's a beautiful piece, and it sounds amazing. I'm absolutely thrilled. During my testing at home, I also experimented with various tubes. It was the first time I could personally witness how much difference a different rectifier tube, for example, can make.

 

The person who made the amp also produces DAC's at a very high level, and I had the chance to try one for a week. My 300B SET has two inputs, so I could connect my streamer in two ways. The usual method where my streamer's built-in DAC was used (a Cambridge CXN V2, to be precise), and another method via the streamer's pre-output to the external DAC, which had its own custom circuit with two tubes, and then through two interlinks (from a different brand) to the 300B SET.

Using the input selector, I could easily switch between the external DAC and the internal Cambridge DAC.

 

Now here's the strange part, and I hope someone can explain this to me. I couldn't hear any difference at all. Absolutely nothing! My girlfriend also sat by the amplifier for a while, switching the input signal back and forth, testing for differences in highs, lows, placement, liveliness, and so on. There was absolutely no discernible difference.

This truly puzzles me. If, as mentioned earlier, changing, for example, the rectifier tube in my amp results in such a clearly audible difference, how is it possible that when the audio signal skips the built-in preamp, goes through a different type of cable into the DAC with a completely different design, components, and materials (including two tubes), and then returns through two different interlinks into my amplifier, there's absolutely no difference to be heard, not even a slight improvement or degradation?

 

I genuinely don't understand this.

 

 

 

[babadono]

It's magic 0101010101010011110010010 = 0101010101010011110010010

[Shakeydeal]

As Henry David Thoreau said "That person is the richest whose pleasures are the cheapest".

 

With that in mind I have a thought myself. A/B comparisons with quick snippets of music is no way to judge an audio component. 

 

I offer this. Put the better DAC in the system and live with it for a night or two. Don't listen to well recorded "showcase" material. Listen to the music that moves  you and you connect with the most. On the third night, put the streamer DAC back in and listen to the same music. This is much less stressful and will tell you which one moves you the most. If the more expensive piece is better, you will feel something is amiss and you long to put it back in. If you truly don't hear any appreciable difference at this point, live with the Cambridge streamer as your source and consider it money in the bank.

 

[Peter P.]

Because it's alchemy.

But your girlfriend assisting in the A/B testing-that's priceless.

[Flevoman]

But the point is not whether the DAC provides an improvement or not; my point is that the audio signal goes through an additional external component, which consists of completely different parts, has a different structure, different cables, and two more tubes. Just the fact that the signal passes through all of this should, in my logic, result in some noticeable difference. That's why I mentioned earlier that even if I just replace the rectifier tube in my amp, I can hear this.

[Shakeydeal]

4 minutes ago, Peter P. said:

Because it's alchemy.

But your girlfriend assisting in the A/B testing-that's priceless.

 

Yes, of course. When it comes to audio, all things = all other things.

 

@Flevoman according to many around here, the front end components supporting your speakers should be comprised of:

 

Cheap 80s five channel A/V receiver (preferably Radio Shack or Montgomery Ward)

Open box DVD player from Best Buy (you can substitute an early Sony Walkman with RCA adaptor here)

The throw away interconnects that came in the box with the DVD player

 Speaker cables made from the cord of that floor lamp your Aunt Sadie gave you for Christmas in 1992

 

 This system will be the equivalent of any high dollar system belonging to all of those pretentious, know-it-all "golden ear audiophiles". Anything more than this is a frivolous waste of your precious $$.

 

Extra bonus points if you just buy one of these and connect it to your Lascalas.

 

 

 

[Senna1]

Because most modern DACs, even relatively pedestrian budget ones, have noise floors so low they're completely transparent in the signal chain. 

The DAC in your CA CXN V2, for example, has a noise level (THD + N) greater than -100 db. Already well below the threshold of the capability of human hearing to detect. You can put an external DAC in that measures better, sure, but no human being will *ever* hear the difference. 

[Flevoman]

Thank you for your explanation. However, the subject of "audible differences in a DAC" can actually be omitted when providing the answer. Because whether there is or isn't an audible difference in a DAC is actually secondary in my question. As I mentioned earlier, the audio signal processed by the external DAC goes through a series of other components and is also passed through a completely differently designed product that is equipped with tubes. So, if converting the audio signal from digital to analog yields 100% the same result as the same process in my streamer, I would still logically expect the sound to be slightly different because it has now traversed a path through cables, different electronics, tubes... one would expect that this would introduce some coloring or alteration to the audio signal. And since I can't hear any difference at all, I am actually quite surprised by this.

[Shakeydeal]

13 hours ago, Senna1 said:

Because most modern DACs, even relatively pedestrian budget ones, have noise floors so low they're completely transparent in the signal chain. 

The DAC in your CA CXN V2, for example, has a noise level (THD + N) greater than -100 db. Already well below the threshold of the capability of human hearing to detect. You can put an external DAC in that measures better, sure, but no human being will *ever* hear the difference. 

 

You might not hear the difference between 0.001 and 0.005% distortion. But you will hear the difference in the sound between two DACs. If you really think that all you are hearing in an audio component is the level of distortion it contains, you should probably look at something else to do with your free time.

 

I just realized this is your first post. You came right out swinging for the fences with that one...

[JohnA]

On 10/19/2023 at 7:03 AM, Shakeydeal said:

 

Yes, of course. When it comes to audio, all things = all other things.

 

@Flevoman according to many around here, the front end components supporting your speakers should be comprised of:

 

Cheap 80s five channel A/V receiver (preferably Radio Shack or Montgomery Ward)

Open box DVD player from Best Buy (you can substitute an early Sony Walkman with RCA adaptor here)

The throw away interconnects that came in the box with the DVD player

 Speaker cables made from the cord of that floor lamp your Aunt Sadie gave you for Christmas in 1992

 

 This system will be the equivalent of any high dollar system belonging to all of those pretentious, know-it-all "golden ear audiophiles". Anything more than this is a frivolous waste of your precious $$.

 

Extra bonus points if you just buy one of these and connect it to your Lascalas.

 

 

 

 

 

 

You should see what Roy uses to demo Jubilees! 

[JohnA]

On 10/18/2023 at 11:57 PM, Flevoman said:

For a week now, I own a self-made 300B SET amplifier. It's a beautiful piece, and it sounds amazing. I'm absolutely thrilled. During my testing at home, I also experimented with various tubes. It was the first time I could personally witness how much difference a different rectifier tube, for example, can make.

 

The person who made the amp also produces DAC's at a very high level, and I had the chance to try one for a week. My 300B SET has two inputs, so I could connect my streamer in two ways. The usual method where my streamer's built-in DAC was used (a Cambridge CXN V2, to be precise), and another method via the streamer's pre-output to the external DAC, which had its own custom circuit with two tubes, and then through two interlinks (from a different brand) to the 300B SET.

Using the input selector, I could easily switch between the external DAC and the internal Cambridge DAC.

 

Now here's the strange part, and I hope someone can explain this to me. I couldn't hear any difference at all. Absolutely nothing! My girlfriend also sat by the amplifier for a while, switching the input signal back and forth, testing for differences in highs, lows, placement, liveliness, and so on. There was absolutely no discernible difference.

This truly puzzles me. If, as mentioned earlier, changing, for example, the rectifier tube in my amp results in such a clearly audible difference, how is it possible that when the audio signal skips the built-in preamp, goes through a different type of cable into the DAC with a completely different design, components, and materials (including two tubes), and then returns through two different interlinks into my amplifier, there's absolutely no difference to be heard, not even a slight improvement or degradation?

 

I genuinely don't understand this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

There are a number of possibilities.  Beginning with Cambridge is good kit.  The D-to-A conversion and filtering out of errors is done with pretty inexpensive chips and both DACs could well have the same, or equally performing chips (my guess).  There is no correlation between cost and performance in High-end Audio.  Some brands set price so you'll think they are more worthy.  See Wilson Audio WAMM at $685,000.

[the real Duke Spinner]

DAC ??

Why do I wish to futz with my Music further?

 

Jolida CD \ Crown K2

DONE. 😀😀😀