MMurg Posted October 29, 2023 Share Posted October 29, 2023 FedEx delivered my Halloween treat yesterday. I took advantage of a @Paducah Home Theater blowout deal on some KI-102-SMA-II to use as six Atmos speakers in my Jubilee 5.0 system. Unfortunately, I've hit a bit of a snag. The only painted ones in the blowout stock were the black ones with the 70V transformer for use in distributed audio systems. However, it turns out that this model speaker does not have dual speaker wire connections to be able to simply not use the transformer. So, I'm going to have to do some minor surgery on these to disconnect the transformer and connect the crossover directly to the input cup. I'm hoping it will be fairly easy as the solder connections on the input cup are big enough for even my terrible globby soldering. 😁 If I can't do it properly, the boys in Paducah offered to have me send the speakers to them for modification. The other option is to find a 70V amp with at least six discrete channels. However, that's looking like a more expensive and complicated option than the conventional multichannel amp I was considering. One other thing I need for this system change to the system is to replace my 7.1 processor with an Atmos/DTS-X one. Since the funds need to build back up for that, this Atmos upgrade to the system may take a few months to complete. One interesting thing I noticed about these speakers is that the tweeter phase plug looks like a scaled down version of the custom wide dispersion phase plug on the Heritage Jubilee. 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delicious2 Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 I was looking at some used KPT-200s with their bigger woofers but they're more for large cinemas with higher ceilings than my 7' basement. Those KI-102s look like just the ticket for my K402 MEH based HT. Might go well with the UG Jubes in the llving room too but not quite ready for Atmos there yet. Looks like the mounting bracket would allow wall mounting and full aiming on the ceiling. Curious, how did you find out about the blow-out sale? I'm a customer of Cory's too but didn't know. He's looking into some of these for me now. What are you considering for a processor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybob Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMurg Posted November 7, 2023 Author Share Posted November 7, 2023 16 minutes ago, Delicious2 said: Curious, how did you find out about the blow-out sale? I'm a customer of Cory's too but didn't know. He's looking into some of these for me now. What are you considering for a processor? Cory posted about the blowout sales on the Klipsch Owners Facebook group. As far as the processor, I'm considering a few but I'm likely to get the Emotiva RMC-1l because the Emotiva processors have a built-in multichannel parametric EQ compatible with REW. I currently have an XMC-1 and I'm using the parametric EQ for bass room correction and other things. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delicious2 Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 35 minutes ago, billybob said: Have the KPT-100s...like them alot. Would make decent surrounds or rears. Would consider the 200s. This will be my first Atmos setup so maybe I'm confused. With the KPT-100s and 200s isn't their slant design more for high-ceiling commercial theater rooms where they're hung up high? I would think for my surrounds I want them firing straight ahead as part of my bed layer and so very well distinct from the overhead Atmos units. No? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybob Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 On 11/7/2023 at 11:45 AM, Delicious2 said: This will be my first Atmos setup so maybe I'm confused. With the KPT-100s and 200s isn't their slant design more for high-ceiling commercial theater rooms where they're hung up high? I would think for my surrounds I want them firing straight ahead as part of my bed layer and so very well distinct from the overhead Atmos units. No @Delicious2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OO1 Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 an accessory is available, the SB-102 mounting bracket Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delicious2 Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 1 hour ago, OO1 said: an accessory is available, the SB-102 mounting bracket Yes, very useful for the KI series it seems but weren't we talking about the KPT-100 and 200 not being suitable? https://support.klipsch.com/hc/en-us/articles/4402621465876-SB-102-Mounting-Bracket-Architectural-Drawing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billybob Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 On 11/7/2023 at 2:25 PM, Delicious2 said: Yes, very useful for the KI series it seems but weren't we talking about the KPT-100 and 200 not being suitable? https://support.klipsch.com/hc/en-us/articles/4402621465876-SB-102-Mounting-Bracket-Architectural-Drawing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 On 10/29/2023 at 12:33 AM, MMurg said: The other option is to find a 70V amp with at least six discrete channels. You wouldn't want to do that for the type of system you have. It should be fairly easy to bypass the 70v transformer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMurg Posted November 9, 2023 Author Share Posted November 9, 2023 3 minutes ago, Marvel said: You wouldn't want to do that for the type of system you have. It should be fairly easy to bypass the 70v transformer. Yeah, I looked into and quickly ruled out the 70V amp option. I already removed the input cup and horn on one of them so that I can see what I'm dealing with. It seems pretty straightforward. However, I want to ask Roy a few questions about it when I'm at SubFest later this week before proceeding. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 I'm sure he can give you good directions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OO1 Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 2 hours ago, Marvel said: 70V amp with six channels. https://www.crownaudio.com/en-US/product_families/comtech-drivecore-series + https://www.crownaudio.com/en-US/products/xfmr-4#description or https://www.crownaudio.com/en-US/product_families/drivecore-install-analog-series Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 Randy, the 70v amp is not what you want to use for that kind of system. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delicious2 Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 You inspired me! Scored some older KI-102s and KP-102s for surround and atmos duty. I should receive them in 10 days or so. Apparently some of these were in a HardRock cafe. The seller assures me they aren't the 70v transformer variety. What are the differences of the KI-102 vintages I wonder? No mumps or tweeter phase plugs in the older I guess. Wonder what else? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMurg Posted November 9, 2023 Author Share Posted November 9, 2023 31 minutes ago, Delicious2 said: You inspired me! Scored some older KI-102s and KP-102s for surround and atmos duty. I should receive them in 10 days or so. Apparently some of these were in a HardRock cafe. The seller assures me they aren't the 70v transformer variety. What are the differences of the KI-102 vintages I wonder? No mumps or tweeter phase plugs in the older I guess. Wonder what else? Cool. I saw you're Facebook post. Meant to call you a copy cat but forgot. 🙂 I can ask Roy about what else is different between the old and new ones, perhaps some crossover changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OO1 Posted November 9, 2023 Share Posted November 9, 2023 ,,,,,,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delicious2 Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 On 11/8/2023 at 8:29 PM, MMurg said: Yeah, I looked into and quickly ruled out the 70V amp option. I already removed the input cup and horn on one of them so that I can see what I'm dealing with. It seems pretty straightforward. However, I want to ask Roy a few questions about it when I'm at SubFest later this week before proceeding. How did you make out with your transformer bypasses? Get the straight skinny from the Chief? Turns out my KI-102s have transformers after all. I paired one with a KP-102 and thought it had a problem until I adjusted the preamp balance and realized that it's just less sensitive than the KP-102. I had opened one up and found this: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMurg Posted January 7 Author Share Posted January 7 1 hour ago, Delicious2 said: How did you make out with your transformer bypasses? Get the straight skinny from the Chief? Turns out my KI-102s have transformers after all. I paired one with a KP-102 and thought it had a problem until I adjusted the preamp balance and realized that it's just less sensitive than the KP-102. I had opened one up and found this: I posted an update to the Klipsch Owners Facebook group but forgot to cross post it here. Here it is: It’s been about two months since I got the KI-102-SMA-II Klipsch Professional “permanent installation” series speakers to uses as Atmos/DTS-X, to upgrade the Jubilee system from 5.0 to 5.0.6. Quite a bit has happened to date. However, there is still a bit more to go. The first hurdle was bypassing the 70V transformer, as the ones I purchased during a blowout sale were the 70V distributed audio model and it turned out that these speakers don’t have another set of connections to use these as regular 8-ohm speakers. This was more involved than I had anticipated. The transformer itself has 20 AWG wire input and output leads. The output leads are directly soldered to the crossover. However, the input leads are spliced to 16 AWG wires that then are soldered to the speaker input panel. I’m not sure why this was done, maybe to make the speaker assembly easier. The original instructions I got were to just cut the transformer leads going to the crossover at the transformer end and solder those to the input cup. However, I didn’t think that using those thin 20 AWG wires would put the speaker back to the 8-ohm 200W power handling spec. I decided to leave the 16 AWG wires on the input cup, cut those off at the splice, and solder those to the crossover. That way all the internal wiring is 16 AWG. Unfortunately, that meant taking the entire speakers apart to get the crossover and transformer out of the cabinet. So, I completely disassembled all of them. I attempted the desoldering of the transformer leads from the crossover and the soldering of the input panel leads in their place on the spare speaker that I bought. I’m not skilled at soldering, but I actually accomplished the task. However, the soldering job, while solid, is ugly. I also stank up the house doing it, even with the windows open and a fan in the window. So, I paid a local electronics repair shop to do the desoldering/resoldering work on the parts for six speakers I will be using in the setup. It was worth the $100 cost. However, removing and replacing 30 screws per speaker during disassembly and assembly was no fun. They are all reassembled now and working fine. They sound great. The next task was painting the optional SB-102 mounting brackets. The speakers are black, but Klipsch only had white brackets in stock. That wasn’t a difficult task, but I had to park outside for a few days as that’s the only place where I can spray paint anything. Luckily, I managed to get that done before the weather turned too cold. The last things I’ve accomplish was getting the brackets on the ceiling and getting the speakers mounted in the brackets. I had to wait for my son to come home for the holidays to help me with getting the speakers mounted in the brackets. I could have done it myself if I had three arms, but I don’t. 😊 I replaced the supplied mounting screws with threaded clamping knobs (aka thumb screws) as this makes loosening/retightening much easier when adjusting the speaker tilt. The positioning of the speakers on the ceiling was constrained by a few factors. The ceiling in this room is the floor of the upper floor, so I can’t do anything inside the drywall (like adding blocking between the joists) without cutting into it, which I did not want to do. I also did not want to put any of the speaker’s weight on the drywall itself (considering that most will hang over the Jubilee or La Scala) or add blocking on top of the drywall. So, I was limited to hanging them along the ceiling joists so that the 1/4" lag screws I used were always screwed into wood. I would have preferred some horizontal toe-in, but I don’t think the current positioning will be a big issue since I can control the vertical pointing completely. I also wanted similar spacing between the front, middle, and back pairs. Finally, I didn’t want the front set of ceiling speakers to be in front of the Jubilee horns so that the ceiling speakers are acting as an early reflection sources. I also didn’t want them not to be so far behind the Jubilee horn frames that the frames to block some of the sound from the front ceiling speakers. I’ll be running the speaker wire to them soon. Since I don’t want to break the drywall, the wires will be visible. It won’t look great, but appearance obviously isn’t the main goal for this room. It’s insane sound quality. 😊 The next things after that are the more expensive ones. I must replace my current 7.1 processor with an Atmos/DTS-X one, purchase six more channels of amplification, and get a taller equipment rack since my current one is full. I’ll be doing the research and making those purchases after the holidays. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMurg Posted January 7 Author Share Posted January 7 1 hour ago, Delicious2 said: How did you make out with your transformer bypasses? Get the straight skinny from the Chief? Turns out my KI-102s have transformers after all. I paired one with a KP-102 and thought it had a problem until I adjusted the preamp balance and realized that it's just less sensitive than the KP-102. I had opened one up and found this: Looking at your pictures, it looks like you could just disconnect the leads going from the crossover board to the transformer at the transformer end, disconnect the wires going from the transformer to the input cup at the input cup, remove the spade connectors from the crossover input leads, and crimp on connectors compatible with the input cup posts. You might not need to do any soldering, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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