heresy2guy Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 "For 2-1/2 years, we have successfully executed our Klipsch ProMedia strategy through Best Buyconnecting with an entirely new customer, giving them their first step-up audio experience with a true high-end audio company in the multimedia space, and educating them on the advantages of our high-performance home loudspeakers, only available through our specialty retail partners." - Mr. Jacobs ------------------------------------------------------ In my opinion, this "new" customer has been exposed to Klipsch alright. He's been exposed to the Klipsch ProMedia series which has scored extremely well in audio reviews and puts out tremendous SPLs but has little to no longevity - in essence, they crap out at an appalling rate! And then there's the issue of promised "fixes" that have obviously never come to light as evidenced by the continued posts, speaking of the same problems, in the promedia 5.1 forum. The amps in that series are built off-shore somewhere in the Orient, I'd wager. Then Klipsch places their tag on them and sells them in great numbers and completely fumbles the ball on the obvious issues continuing to plague the series to this day. Why have they done that? In my opinion, it is because there has been no write-up of this issue in any publication - there's only the glowing performance reviews, which, incidentally, wouldn't be all too glowing should the editors have had to live with the system for say, 6 months before submitting a review. If this was the case, I can assure you a great number of reviews would speak of the BASH amps crapping out and leaving only the subwoofer functioning and volume pods with minds of their own. Alas, the only ways for a consumer to be made aware of this is by a) talking to other promedia owners who've owned their systems upwards of 6 mos to a year; coming to this website and reading the 5.1 forum; or c) asking a seasoned salesman (save your jokes) at bestbuy to give him the TRUTH on how many PM 5.1s he's personally seen returned due to the amp problems. So in a nutshell, what we have here is a cheaply made product with a Klipsch name that has an obvious flaw that's still unrectified to this day but since it's not widely written about it matters little to them because it's all about volume and numbers. Is that the kind of "step-up audio experience" you want the "new" Klispch customer to have, Mr. Jacobs? Secondly, you will have some of the synergy line at bestbuy, which is an issue I won't even get into. Then you hear of Klipsch teaming up with Samsung to deliver a HTIB package. SAMSUNG?---a company known for sub-par, cheap equipment?! I've owned various Samsung products from VCRs to a Hard Drive & CD player for my computer and you know what? The VCRs were cheap pieces of crap akin to Funai and Apex and the hard drive and cd player on my computer both eventaully malfunctioned and had to be replaced, although to Samsung's credit, it didn't happen at the same time. Why the hell would a company that prides itself on "HIGH-PERFORMANCE home loudspeakers" (to quote Mr. Jacobs) team up with a company that has spent (at least to my knowledge) the past 18 years or so building the CHEAPEST assortment of electronic devices imaginable that have a deserved reputation for said cheapness and a total lack of longevity? Perhaps so they can market the thing at bestbuy and sell a billion of them????????????? To top it all off, there's little reference to the heritage series because in my opinion, their fate has already been decided by the present management at Klipsch. They're sitting around having pow-wow sessions trying to decide how they can go about axing the "heritage" series gracefully, while chalking it up in a way that would be least-offendable to their traditional customers --- Well boys, the Heritage series haven't been selling too well (nevermind that we didn't want to put any in the stores for prospective customers to listen to), so in order to keep Klipsch profitable and alive, we needed to discontinue the line so that Klipsch may continue to operate and remain a competitive "leader" in our market. Hey, you can laugh it you want, but consider this: I never thought the day would come when Klipsch would continue to: Sell a problem-plagued product along with false promises; wind up in a bestbuy-type store; team up with a low-quality company like "Samsung"; and then intentionally (in my opinion) scheme to let the Heritage series die on the vine by not having them in stores in sufficent numbers so "new" customers can hear, and thus buy them. DID YOU??? This is not meant to be an "attack" on Mr. Jacobs---I'm just offering an opinion based on what I'm seeing with respect to Klipsch and my own personal experiences. I'm just waiting for the eventual announcement that Klipsch is "going public." That'll be the finishing nail in the coffin insofar as I'm concerned but will undoubtedly make Fred Klipsch and his Management Team happier then pigs in sh_t. It's their right to do it, don't get me wrong, but it sure makes me feel sad to see Klipsch go the way of so many other companies. I guess it's the American Way...a sort of corporate Manifest Destiny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BobG Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 I think it appropriate to offer my thoughts in response to this post. 1. When Klipsch brought the ProMedia line to market it represented a level of performance unknown in the category. Whether the 2.1 or 4.1, ProMedia systems established a new high for computer speaker sound quality and created a demand for higher priced, higher performance solutions. We've made thousands of people very happy with ProMedia systems but it is also true that we have had our share of problems with the 5.1. You will see a message from us very soon on that topic. I recall a fellow who posted comments on this bulletin board expressing his disappointment with the PM 4.1 system as it did not exceed the sound quality of his Krell/Martin Logan combination though comments on the board lead him to expect otherwise. Obviously, his expectations were not aligned with the realities of product in the price range of the ProMedia systems. What should owners expect? A reliable, high performance product that is superior in sound quality to anything near the cost. Again, you'll see an announcement addressing quality issues in the very near future. 2. I am happy to discuss Synergy products at Best Buy. Best Buy sells about 30% of all audio sold in the US market. They are extremely professional and make millions of people happy every year. We feel Synergy is a great match for both Best Buy and their customers and know that many more people will be made aware of Klipsch via our offering at Best Buy. Only time will allow Klipsch to demonstrate our commitment to BOTH the customers who prefer to shop at Best Buy and those who prefer to shop at an independent audio specialty store. Klipsch recognizes that not all companies who have chosen to offer product through what is termed the mass channel have successfully retained their identity as premium brands. Klipsch means to manage the expansion in availability of our brand in a manner that does not compromise our identity and commitment to our customers. 3. Your depiction of Samsung is inaccurate and fails to recognize the changes in that company and their products over the last few years. Samsung is focused on delivering premium products through multiple channels of distribution. I believe that their efforts will be recognized over the coming months and years. We are pleased to provide our Quintet components as part of the forthcoming Samsung HT-SK6 system. 4. We share your obvious frustration over the lack of stores displaying the Klipsch Heritage line. Your indictment of Klipsch management is misplaced in this case as we have made many attempts to broaden the availability of that product group. If not for the commitment of Klipsch management and Mr. Fred S. Klipsch, the Heritage line would have ceased production years ago as it is far from commercially profitable for the company. We welcome you to convince your local dealer that you and many others will purchase Heritage products if they put them on display. Over the last 18 months, we have upgraded the drivers, crossovers, wiring, input connectors and other elements of most Heritage models and this would not have been done if we had acted solely from a profit motive. We recognize the unique position Heritage holds in the market and in peoples' hearts and we will continue to support that line. In summary, I understand your concern and skepticism. If you had no emotional connection to Klipsch you would never have taken time to post your thoughts. We respect and value that connection. I believe you'll be pleased with the direction of this company as we pursue our product and marketing plans. Time will tell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REFSELLER Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 With respect to #1: I think many would disagree with the word "reliable". With respect to #2: "Klipsch recognizes that not all companies who have chosen to offer product through what is termed the mass channel have successfully retained their identity as premium brands."...end quote....Good luck, I think many have not found a way ...hence the phrase "bb where good audio goes to die." With respect to #3: I sell Samsung and recent increases in problems with their "higher-end" products lead me to beleive that they are actually getting worse.... With respect to #4: I would argue that this should be the job of your sales reps......and if you believed in the product (or cared) you would have seen to their sucsess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BobG Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 #1 The issues with the ProMedia 5.1 are an anomaly that will be fixed. As I posted above, we will have more on this very soon. #2 Other audio companies have had problems and lost reputation points, but NO ONE has done what we are doing. Do not assume you fully understand our approach to market or our commitment to the specialty audio business until you see it play out over time. We have learned from the strategies of others. #3 The rest of the industry disagrees with you. The Samsung of today is well respected and thought of as a leader in technology and a shaper of the future of consumer electronics. You are apparantly close to the situation as a salesperson working with Samsung products. It is a great leap to assume that because you've had problems with some of the products you've sold that All of that companies products are of inferior quality. I have had the opportunity to meet with Samsung senior management and I can attest to their current and future direction. I guess you'll have to reassess once you've gotten more data. #4 It's hurtful to me and to Mr. Klipsch and to the whole Klipsch company family when you make generalizations about us NOT CARING about the Heritage Series. The simple fact is that the market has changed from what it was in decades past and many dealers do not want to carry Heritage. No amount of passion can convince a businessman to reserve the great amount of space necessary to demonstrate products that only a handful of people in his market are interested in. Our commitment means we'll have to take a novel approach to sales of this series and we will tackle that challenge in time. #5 Your closing statement tells me you do not fully understand the new Klipsch Reference line. "Do you guys carry the synergy too? best buy has them and there a lot cheaper, I really wish I could hear them side-buy-side...I'd rather not spend the extra money and the kid at bb says that there isn't much differance... " The new Reference models do not place Reference dealers at a price disadvantage. There are MANY differences between the two speaker lines and a good sales person will have no difficulty demonsrating those differences to the customer in his or her store. There is no basis for fear of the competitive marketplace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 Bob. Are you in a position to address in detail why Klipsch pulled out of Magnolia HiFi a respectable audio store and decided to stick with The Good Guys? The reasoning for this move by Klipsch escapes me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REFSELLER Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 Certainly these issues will play out over time, so I will allow that you may be able to pull off a strategy that others could not...good luck, sincerely... As for samsung, I can look up the info on MANY repair facilities and have seen MANY postings on MANY forums ABOUT SOME OF THEIR RECENT EQUIPMENT, but again maybe this will be sorted out, contrary to what they have done in the past..... and as for this quote: "a good sales person will have no difficulty demonsrating those differences to the customer in his or her store." I ask how we can demonstrate the differance if we are no longer allowed to carry synergy. This has ALWAYS been the way to step a customer up! Good audio gear needs to be properly demo'd in an A/B situation or else it is merely price, not quality, that sells ..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruinsrme Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 BobG, Thanks for taking the time to answer some of our concerns. As you have seen Mr. Refseller is very passionate about this subject as was I several weeks ago. The decision is disheartening escpecially living in the North East region. With Tweeter no longer a reseller a great amount of the reference line will receive little to no exposure. When I first started lookingat HT gear my first choice was bose. The salesman demostrated the Klipsch and I fell in love. With the RF7s I have sacrificed a large amount of real estate in my relatively small 15x 18 room. We are looking to install a small HT upstairs in a 10x11 room. Klipsch wasn't a consideration until one of the moderators stated Klipsch will be releasing an HTIB. Great idea as so many other companies have discovered. I, for one, am looking forward to the new structure and if it will be successful. I have my doubt but I do not have all the facts and figures either. One good thing came of this. Today I received a $550 refund off my Klipsch speakers from tweeter, price matching for the clearance pricing. thank you Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heresy2guy Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 Say....did SAMSUNG make those wonderful bash amps and erratic control pods for the promedia 5.1 series?! LOL Sorry there, Bob, that was a bit of joke intended to lighten things up a bit....lol. I do love Klipsch and if I didn't, I'd take a "So what? Who the hell cares what they do?" attitude, which as you can probably tell, I do not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor2 Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 1. The Synergy line becomes a Best Buy house brand 2. The Reference line leaves Tweeter and reappears at some obscure mom pop a/v store 3. The Heritage line is allowed to die 4. The mom & pops cannot support the Reference line and it too is allowed to die. 5. Klipsch becomes Bose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruinsrme Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 Klipsch does not have the flexibility Bose has. 1. Bose far more prominant in the Automobile 2. Bose has consumer radios that do sound great and have at least a 200% profit margin 3. Bose has a high Wife acceptance factor 4. Bose is great for the office environment 5. Bose has a strong niche in the military and industrial sectors 6. Bose has an unbelievable marketing team 7. Bose is every where you shop for audio video 8. Bose does not depend on any one sector of there busines model as primary income 9. Bose can be hung on a wall, try that with a RF7 10. Bose has the average consumer thinking they are number 1 Now how can Klipsch comepete with that? Just some thought and these points came from a Bose engineer, if that means anything. scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igor2 Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 Bose has a good head start but maybe Klipsch thinks that they can catch them. The race is on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swampdonkey Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 bruinsrme, It's kinda funny that you got a 550$ refund from Tweeter today. Because I gave a 629$ refund to a customer who purchased a pair of RF7's from me 2 weeks ago. Yup, lost 100 clams in commission. This makes me a little nervous about selling any more before they're all gone. Every time they go down in price to clear out inventory, I'm gonna loose money. The upside is that I've still got plenty of great speakers to show. And a Bruins fan got some scratch to use on some tickets to a game and a couple of beers at the "Penalty Box". Enjoy brutha' as for the loss in commission, I'll get over it....... (deep breath)............ o.k, I'm over it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RB5M Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 Besides the h....something outdoor speakers, and maybe a pair of older synergy bookshelves(?) does anyone know of any current products built outside the U.S.?.....Will there be more of this in the future?...Will real wood veneers continue, if so, on which products? Will bb's synergy's be the same ones out now and will they be made in the same place without any design/parts changes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruinsrme Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 Swamp, To show my appreciation to my salesman I will drop him a benjie. he's been good to me and feel its the least I can do for him! Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RB5M Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 Yet no response to my post? bump.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
REFSELLER Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 There have only been a couple of products that I've ever seen from Klipsch that were made outside the US., I too am curious if this will change.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VegasShawn Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 The biggest problem of Best Buy starting to sell Klipsch speakers is the "ego-factor". Some people take a great deal of pride in NOT buying things from places like Best Buy. It gives the purchaser a certain sense of "pride" when someone comes over to your house and you have a set of speakers you had to go to a "high-end" store to purchase. It makes some people feel that they have indeed bought a quality item that's not "available to the masses". It implies that the owner actually spent time to shop around for speakers instead of just picking whatever sounded the best from Best Buy. Now, when someone comes to you house, "Hey, are those the same speakers they sell at Best Buy??! Those sound AWESOME!" "No, these are the ones you can't get at Best Buy. Best Buy sells an inferior version of the Klipsch line." Now, you're the a-hole that's too good to buy Klipsch at Best Buy and you had to spend the extra money for who-knows-what. Also, you have made the person who asked you about the speakers feel like and idiot "How DARE you imply that *I* bought speakers from BEST BUY" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soon2bbuyer Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 Well JR, reading through all the posts I'd say you've stirred up a hornets nest with your decision to move the Synergy line into BB. There's certainly pros & cons to your decision and I'm sure growth is a driving factor. I am not here to debate the decision or provide judgement on it. And I am by no means an audio specialist and there are far many here more expert than me. I am here as a potential customer considering Klipsch speakers for my new home entertainment center I'm equipping. It's been over a decade (probably closer to 2) since I've purchased speakers and I remember Klipsch from my college days. So far my evaluations have only included internet based technical reviews and listening to a few brands at the local BB and CC, however I've not heard the quality I'm seeking. My problem is that the new plasma arrives Tuesday, the Onkyo receiver on Thursday, and I need to get speakers rather soon. I would like to hear the Synergy's (I believe the Reference are beyond my budget) but the dealers are redirecting me to BB who says not available until Memeorial Day. What transition was allowed for until BB goes on-line? If dealers have existing inventory of Synergy product, are they allowed to sell it? I'm afraid family pressure to get the system on line will preclude Klipsch from consideration. Good luck with your new strategy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
htxpert Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 KLH was a well respected line years ago now look what they are like at your local Best Buy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RB5M Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 A friend in the industry (a mnfgr's rep) offered an interesting observation regaurding the demise of quality in products and their marketing decisions...he noted that volume and market share will make you richer, quicker in the short term and the way thaT HAPPENS IS TO REDUCE PRICE and churn out loads of quantity (which ussually involves a subsequent drop in quality of components used and easing of qc controls)...he went on to say that companies that are trying to caSH IN ON THEIR NAME AND SUBSEQUENT "PERCEIVED" VALUE will often at first turn a blind eye to wide-spread grey-market sales, because that is getting their production numbers up and they can dissavow any repair considerations that may arise from cheaper parts and poorer qc....this may make the companies bottom line appear more attractive to potential buyers (or stock more attractive to initial investors)...the company knows that a drop in quality is less likely to be noticed by people who buy without hearing a properly done A/B comparison, which e-tailers and even best buy cannot provide. Therefor the decision is based on monetary concerns...this seems to have been the case with many mnfgrs over the last 10 years, more since the internet has come into play. Many mnfgrs now employ e-marketers or e-marketing companies to pose as posters offering "unbiased" opinions to those people who let others ears decide ....;..Denon is a recent example of this ,in so far as their tangible feature set has improved,while the amp quality and reliability has declined....I hope that Klipsch can avoid this trap if ,indeed, they are trying to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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