dbflash Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 Thanks, I know a couple other BB members who have used Northcreek and they liked it. I have so much DH wire laying around the house I thought about using it. I also have Kimber Kable 4TC and Audioquest. It came to me that I really have a problem buying all this stuff. My HT just sits there. I watched the Simpson's Sunday night. I listen in 5 channel stereo. After the Simpson's were over I turned the TV off and listened to music. I usually watch about 2 hours of TV a week. If my 2 Channel works in the HT room I'm getting rid of HT. I'm running out of room. Last night I stacked a pair of KLF20' and 3 KLFC7's in a corner, next to my Lascala's. Tonight I will pull out a Denon Rec and set that next to my speaker pile. At least I can roll my HT stand (Salamandar). I am going to put my flexy stand and tubes in and play around with speaker (Cornwalls) placement. The room is about 16x20. If this works I will pull another dedicated AC feed for this setup. I am going to try and sell all this stuff soon. Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 Interesting posts. To the Zen owner, I dont think those amps are giving you 7w in monoblock mode. The really come in at barely 2w in stereo so I dont think the monoblocking will bring them to 7w. Also, I really am not sure if the ultimate best sonics are with these stereo amps run in monoblock fashion. Besides the power increase, I am not sure if all is an improvement. Besides this, I am starting to wonder if people have problems elsewhere. I review a LOT of equipment and listen to music on my main system close to 8-10 hours a day not counting the morning with the EICO HF-81 and HFT-90 FM tuner running NPR and classical on my alternate system. But I have had quite a few amps with different topologies pushing the Cornwalls. I will say that of tubes and solid state, I find that tubes do the most sublime duty with the horns. Although all my current amps are under 15w at the moment, I have had higher watt samples on the CW. I have only had amps that are highly biased into Class A as well. The Cornwalls and 2A3 amps are a VERY nice match. Vinyl, 2A3 SET, and the CW brings a match made in heaven to me. They also do VERY well with jazz. I will say that poor rock recordings or recordings that are highly compressed like many popular rock will bring mediocre sound. Frankly, I dont listen to this type stuff as my collection leans towards 50s-60s jazz and independent label material. But material like Hendrix on vinyl sounds VERY good. The EICO HF-81 is also EXCELLENT with Cornwalls, especially with the Linn LP-12 and the Rega Planet, another synergistic match (phono stage is the modified Cary). I just am not getting the falling apart of the bass and soundstage at high decibels. These comments lead me to believe several things. Either these is poor source or system matching, cable that is bright, or compressed, hyper pressence recordings. I am not getting bad brightness at higher levels unless the source ie recording is poor. And I am surely not getting any collapse or problem with the bass via my 2A3 Moondogs which will shake the cabinets and dishes before having any problems in reproduction. Something has to be amiss here. A quick question. What is the material/recording when you experience this breakup? Bad digital cna REALLY sound mediocre via the Cornwalls, I have noticed that. My Rega Planet is a VERY good match. But even so, mediore pop digital sounds as bad as it is. And a lot of this stuff is BAD. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted February 19, 2003 Author Share Posted February 19, 2003 I was using Stone Temple Pilots 'Core' -- which is a great recording. When I play this CD on the RF-7's -- they pull a vanishing act. If the problem is related to system matching or cables, then it seems it should manifest itself at any and all volume levels -- but that is not the case. Must be that damn Scott. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 What on earth is a "stone temple pilot?" As far a "great recordings" go--unless it's straight to 2-track live in the studio, then it's by definition a "compromised" recording as far as I'm concerned. The freaking Beatles ruined it for EVERYONE!! How can any performance be worth a DAMN if vocals and lead guitar tracks are laid down weeks apart? I don't get it. Long live Roy DuNann and Rudy Van Gelder! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 Hurry up and ditch the oil cans in your Cornwalls so you can sell them to me, Dean. STP is a early '90's rock/alternative/grunge whatever the hell it is band. They did a vanishing act before his RF-7's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 Dean it is the Scott send it to me I'll give you $50 for it. Oh that right you owe me $50 so send it for free LOL !!!! I bet its those goofy a$$ speaker cables and interconnects Scotts are High quality amps that don't require the sound to be colored by audiophile snake and mirror cables. What you descibe is exactly the results I got when trying Silver Sonic wire it lasted in my system about 15 minutes !! Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted February 19, 2003 Author Share Posted February 19, 2003 C'mon Allan, they like horns so they can't be that bad. They did a vanishing act before his RF-7's." You gotta be kidding me. This is one hell of a busy band. Hell, they just finished a nationwide tour in November. Since they're typically considered a "live" band, it shouldn't be surprising they haven't put out anything from the studio in almost two years. They spend a lot of time on the road. Scott Weilland is currently working on his 2nd solo effort, and believe it or not, will probably end up recording some stuff with the reunited Doors. STP didn't vanish -- you did. The reunited Doors plan to record new material for a future album release, featuring vocal and lyric contributions from the lead singers of Stone Temple Pilots, Creed, and the Cult. Doors keyboardist Ray Manzarek told LAUNCH. "We're going to be sending out the instrumental version of the songs to a couple of different singers and poets and see what they can put to it," he said. "Like, Scott Weiland's interested in doing some stuff, and maybe Scott Stapp and certainly Ian Astbury. And Jim Carroll will be writing some poetry for us, too, so it'll be spread around." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted February 19, 2003 Author Share Posted February 19, 2003 Hey man, I'm using the cheap wire. I didn't think the Scott and Cornwalls could handle anything decent. Do I really owe you $50. That would suck. Where the hell is that 7 pin? What oil "cans"? Hell, I thought those were batteries or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 Scott Weiland quit doing drugs and got boring. To each is own, I just don't like the Stone Temple Pilots. Some of us are "real" Headbangers. No offense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry N. Cruse Posted February 19, 2003 Share Posted February 19, 2003 Fini, My wife consoles me by saying that the size of your calk is not as important as how long it clings to the horn. I don't believe her. Dale, When two CWs are lacking in db...Try four... I.B. Slammin TNC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 Kelly said it all, and I tend to agree: "I just am not getting the falling apart of the bass and soundstage at high decibels. These comments lead me to believe several things. Either there is poor source or system matching, cable that is bright or compressed, or hyper pressence recordings. I am not getting bad brightness at higher levels unless the source (ie recording) is poor." And I'm not using a pair of SET monoblocks or grand old H.H. Scott, EICO, Dynaco, or Marantz tube amps. My SS MC250 seems to blend well with my Cornwalls (ALK-crossover guru loves his Mac MC250); my Carver amps weren't nearly as smooth. The Cardas ICs were an improvement, and the Orbeck Stratti cables are a perfect match to my ears (replaced Kimber Kable 8TC that was fabulous for my Maggies, but exceedingly stringent for the horns). The AMC CD player blows away my ol' single-bit Carver SD/A-450, and now the bass seems even more tighter (with less boom) than before! All this improvement in a tiny room, no less. I have absolutely nothing against mods, and was at the time considering them myself for my all-original Cornwalls. I may still try using a single Tekna Sonic C-12 vibration absorbers on each CW to see if they really do improve bass clarity by eliminating cabinet vibrations (each plate attaches magnetically to the backs of the cabinets, and can easily be removed with no scarring of the veneer). If I hear no improvement, or it worsens the sound (is "worsen" a word?), I can return them for a full refund (Audio Advisor.com). I don't discredit anyone else's claims that their Cornwalls need improvement when played over 90 dB, and I hope whatever mods they choose helps clear up any problems they may have. I guess maybe I'm one of the lucky few who just so happens to love their CWs just the way they are; all their components match up perfectly with their Cornwalls to give them a satisfactory sound that is totally pleasing to their (and my) ears! I assume the only improvements I could apply to my system is to first, move my entire system to a bigger, better room, add tube amplification, a tube preamp (for my other sources), a CD player with a tubed output, or for a pair of Klipschorns! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale W Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 TERRY: Back in the day's i was talking about , volume seemed to be my olny concern. I felt the corns fell apart after supplying them with way to much current. So i switched to a pair of k's and a pair of lascalas. Then i got the ear bleeding heart pounding bass that i craved in those days. Not to say any of them sounded good just loud. Hell i was olny 19 years old what did i know ? ( not much) Now i'm 39 and have went through more components than i can even remember as well as a few sets of speakers. So through the last 20 years i've realized a few mistakes along the way and like i said before " I wish i never sold the corn's " . Great hobby this audio stuff is !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry N. Cruse Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 ---------------- On 2/20/2003 1:23:50 PM DALE WALKER wrote: TERRY: Back in the day's i was talking about , volume seemed to be my olny concern. I felt the corns fell apart after supplying them with way to much current. So i switched to a pair of k's and a pair of lascalas. Then i got the ear bleeding heart pounding bass that i craved in those days. Not to say any of them sounded good just loud. Hell i was olny 19 years old what did i know ? ( not much) Now i'm 39 and have went through more components than i can even remember as well as a few sets of speakers. So through the last 20 years i've realized a few mistakes along the way and like i said before " I wish i never sold the corn's " . Great hobby this audio stuff is !! ---------------- Dale,I understand. In collage, my roommate and I had big bell bottoms, platform shoes, 2 Khorns, 2 Las center, 2 Las rear (Quad Man)and 2 harsh,cold,snappy old DC-300s. Even then most of the realy HARD music that I wanted to listen too sounded bad on a horn system. Many ears bled. But in 1969 the system just scared hell out of most people. Men ran, girls cried. And yes, many mistakes were made along the way. The biggest mistake was loosing the shoes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 I knew a guy who lived in a loft in my building in San Francisco circa 1978 who had a quad system with FOUR Altec VOT speakers in the four corners of a 25' x 25' room fed by some Japanese quad receiver. It could really make your ears bleed and all he played was crappy rock and fusion BS. I'll bet he was pushing 110db at times. What a waste of four REALLY cool speakers . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry N. Cruse Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 We used a Dyna Quad Adaptor. I think I paid a big $40 for it, but it didn't Buz. I finally learned to listen to good recordings regardless of music type. (well not country..too hard to get the cow piles off of the TT) And in those days, the old Empire/Rabco was kept in another room in an attempt to keep the arm on the vinyl. I.B. Slammin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mace Posted February 20, 2003 Share Posted February 20, 2003 Dean, What size room do you have the Cornwalls in? What size room for the RF-7s? Maybe you've already done so but it'd be interesting to compare the two sets in the same room, with the same source and amp. As you know, rooms acoustics and shape etc. make a huge difference. I've found this to be true especially at high dB (>90). mace Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobLikesTubes Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 I want to give a little update here...... I am VERY pleased with the sound of the Cornwalls. After a bit more extended listening, some experimentation with placement, etc. I have discovered that at the point in which the sound was "breaking up" , the volume was WAY too loud for normal listening levels. My previous speakers were only 90db, and I had gotten used to listening at much lower levels. I noticed immediately that the normal gain setting on my Zen amps was much louder than I EVER listen to music. I discoved that with the amps running at 1/2 the normal gain setting, they were loud, and due to the increased efficientcy, it too very little adjustment to crank them up. I also noticed just how sensative these speakers are to differences in output levels on CDs. Whereas prior, a really "hot" recording would force me to reduce the gain a bit to prevent clipping - now with a really hot recording, a MAJOR reduction in gain was required to listen at normal levels. I've never owned a pair of speakers that were THIS effecient. So, I'm learning, and getting used to just how the rest of the system interfaces with them. I am amazed by the detail they are cabable of providing, and sense that as I adjust to having this much effecientcy, I will have a better feel for where I need to set levels on various recordings. I'm going to run them with just (1) Zen tonight to see what difference that makes. I also invision adding a sub at some point. I was used to bass extension on the VRs down to 22Hz. I notice a vast difference in that area, particulrly on recordings where a 5 or 6 string bass is being played. ALSO - DO you other Cornwallers have the risers ?? or are you using another type of stand/spike arrangement. Previous experience has told me that getting a little lift, and better coupling to the floor (medium thick carpet /padding over concrete) will yield a bit more mid/low bass punch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted February 21, 2003 Author Share Posted February 21, 2003 Yes, I have the risers -- I have a pillow in hollow area between the floor and the bottom of the speaker. This is temporary, as I'm eventually going to insert a bottom panel, some thick plastic against the bottom to protect the finish -- and then fill with sand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted February 21, 2003 Share Posted February 21, 2003 SET amplifiers do not really open up until unleashed on VERY efficient speakers. And if the speaker does not take a dramatic dip in the impedance, offering a more benign load, it's all the better. I used to sing praises of SET amps with my ProAc Mini Towers, a great speaker with tube gear. But it took hearing the sub 8w SET on a more efficient speaker to really open up the dynamics and let the beasts breathe and sing. You will get nice sound with less efficient brethren, but nothing like when linked to high efficiency and benign impedance. I think the risers are a good call and appear quite easy to make. On the other hand, I have found that most five and six string basses sure dont get into even the 30hz range. And even though a few in here disagree, adding a sub to the typical horn just wont even come near to matching the speed. I know that it can bring some good results with quality offerings, yet I still think it is nore harmful than positive and I just rarely see good come from a sub pairing. Perhaps if you use your system for HT it's needed. But most music does pretty poorly with subs. Of course, some crave this type of bass. I find it VERY hard to get right, and even when you do, the room starts to present serious problems more often than not. Give me good, quality, fast, bass with excellent tone and pitch down to the upper 30s and I am happy. I have found that simpler is so much better here, although others disagree. My friends that have attempted tri-amping, subs, and other more complex solutions often end up back where they started at the end of the day. Once you enter these complications you are dealing with variables that bring about more problems than solutions. Not to say they cant be overcome, but I have found that a simple full range solution that is optimized brings you closer to the answer. Surely nothing wrong with experimenting, however, though many have never taken the full range challenge to its highest place before moving on to other paths. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted February 21, 2003 Author Share Posted February 21, 2003 A sub should have no problem matching speed -- as the speed of sound is a constant. Lame attempt at humor -- sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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