Randy Bey Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 M00n, I would agree with the opinions that you leave these Belles stock for a while, months at least, before you think about changing them. If ever. I was a little strong in my opinion on Cutthroats crossovers and actually regret being so close-minded. The trick to these three-way horn loaded speakers is the amp/speaker match. You will be unhappy with them until that is done. Simple as that. Although I have not heard the heritage amps like Scott (recently) that may be a quick way to get close to your goal. Remember that PWK voiced these speakers with tube amps; they will sound closest to his results when similarly powered. Horn damping is a good cheap tweak in that it is reversible; get some rope caulk from your hardware store and go to town. Tear it off if you don't like it. These speakers will really improve most with improvements in the rest of the stereo. Believe this. The better the source, pre, amp, etc. the better they will sound. GIGO. And put them in a proper room. You will be happiest with good solid walls and reasonable sized spaces. I've had good luck with odd-shaped rooms but your mileage may vary. So, get them, DON'T CHANGE THEM, get the rest of the stereo top notch (as you can get it), and listen to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale W Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 MOON : I've amp'd lascalas and k-horns with more than 20 different ss amps and now PP tube amps. I don't think any of them sounded bad !! It's all in the room acoustics and your listening pleasure, what works for one person is not always the cure for all. If you happen to finally get these belles you'll need to listen to them in there new enviroment before getting all crazy about which amp or amps to use. example : I had my k-horns in a 10 x 12 room , amp'd with a small nakamichi. Sounded great !! Same amp in a bigger room and sitting farther back really lacked the bass punch as the smaller room and closer seating position. Change to bigger ss amp and wa-la back came the bass punch and filled the room . Starting to get the point ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted March 10, 2003 Author Share Posted March 10, 2003 Randy, Dale... Yeah, I wont be doinng anything to these speakers for a while. I promise. Well I obviously will dust and clean them. Which brings me up to another question, how do you clean the grill cloth? We have a carpet shampooer with a spray nozel for cleaning couches. BUT, that seems as though it would not be a good idea as soapy water would get all over the wood as well as the horns... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale W Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 Moon : i've cleaned them before with a good vacuum and a can of compressed air. LIGHTLY blow the cloth while vacuuming at the same spot. Also there are stain removers ( foam ) that you can spray on and scrub in. Then you wait for it to dry and the dirt floats up to the surface so you can vacuum it off. Lots of options for cleaning. But always do a small spot to check for colour fastness first . (Same as spot remover for carpet) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
georgie Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 m00n, If you have a vacuum with a soft brush attachment, that works well. Since it was a lady that you are buying them from I would bet that she cleans them up before you get them. It's a "girl thing" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted March 10, 2003 Author Share Posted March 10, 2003 Look at that... A lady who knows her speakers and how to care for them. Your husband must be one happy man! My wife would be happy with a $25.00 realistic radio phone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbflash Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 m00n, Congratulations on the Belles. I think you will like them now that you have the room. I wish my house would get bigger every time I think about getting speakers. If you end up picking them up I live in Bham, Al. Its a 8 hour drive to Charlotte. If you need a place to crash let me know. Enjoy your speakers. Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Garrison Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 m00n, One you will want to spend quite a bit of time doing is experimenting with positioning. I know you haven't a lot of room to manuver, but seemingly small changes can make a big different. When I got my La Scalas, my first inclination was to put them deep into the corners - even Paul said that's where they should be. I was never totally happy with the way they sounded there... music seemd to coalesce around the speakers, and didn't really come alive. For a lark one day, I pulled them *WAY* out of the corners, like four feet from the side walls and five feet from the front walls (the wall behind the speakers). Holy crap. Music wasn't coming from the speakers anymore, it was just in the room, unfettered, and much more alive and dynamic. The bass response was clearly shelved down a bit, but given that La Scalas (and Belles, as you'll find) don't really have any bass to speak of in the first place, I was using a subwoofer anyway, so it didn't really matter. I experimented a lot, and I found that I always preferred the sound of the La Scalas when they were well away from the walls. Ray (yeah, the guy using his real name...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 Ray, nice to see you posting. Hope life is on the upward curve these days. Life in the Boston area is caving in as we know it. m00n, I agree with Ray ... You're going to find the Belles have very "fast" bass like the Klipschorns, but they aren't going to have the volume and mass of the Klipschorn bass. This isn't necessarily a bad thing ... It just depends on what you're looking for. Ray had used a pretty fast sub if I remember correctly and the combo was very nice. I know subs and 2-channel are anathema here, but I say whatever floats your boat is fine by me. I will add here that my Wrights are positively the best thing I've ever heard (with the Klipschorns). I've run McIntosh, Eico, Cary ... and these are WONDERFUL. If there's a forum member nearby with a pair of these (or even better, Welborne), give them a listen. They shine with Heritage stuff. PS: "LIGHTLY blow the cloth while vacuuming at the same spot." Good maintenance tip. I printed it out and will take it up to my wife after the kids are asleep. Let the good times roll Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted March 10, 2003 Author Share Posted March 10, 2003 ---------------- On 3/10/2003 7:23:13 PM Ray Garrison wrote: The bass response was clearly shelved down a bit, but given that La Scalas (and Belles, as you'll find) don't really have any bass to speak of in the first place, I was using a subwoofer anyway, so it didn't really matter. ---------------- Ray thanks for the input. You have me worried. No bass? Please don't tell me these things are all mids and highs. There has to be some degree of bass. Yes? Now, I am not worried that they will or will not have as much as the beloved SVS subs that people adore on this forum, but... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 m00n, you clicked faster than I did ... LaScalas and Belles have bass, but it isn't as pronounced as Cornwalls or Klipschorns. It IS there, but it's just not in your face. It is very tight and fast, which is good ... faster than the Cornwall, but not necessarily better. Personally, I love both but when push comes to shove, I'll go for Cornwalls and Klipschorns. That's just my personal preference. The amps you drive these with will make ALL the difference (other than room placement). Really, give SET a chance or on a budget, the Eicos and the Scotts. The Belles will sound quite wonderful and will leave you wanting for very little. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted March 10, 2003 Author Share Posted March 10, 2003 Chris... What is "SET". Is that am amp or something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 SET is "single ended triode" ... a very simple circuit usually associated with low power ... but GREAT sound. You need very efficient speakers to utilize SET. You've probably seen a lot of talk about Welborne Moondogs, Apollos, or Wright 3.5 WPAs ... These are what we're talking about. Just really lush midranges and very great bass. If you're one who likes Megadeath and 125db listening sessions, these probably aren't for you. They'll do 110 pretty well and sound great doing it. You can pick up a pair of Wrights for about $1000 used, the Moondogs usually run about $1400 and you'll need a pre-amp. Really nice combination. Search on Moondogs and/or SET and you'll have enough to read about for a fortnight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted March 10, 2003 Author Share Posted March 10, 2003 Geeze, I thought tubes were supposed to be relatively inexpensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale W Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 ---------------- On 3/10/2003 8:55:09 PM m00n wrote: Geeze, I thought tubes were supposed to be relatively inexpensive. ---------------- " LOL " Your posting in the wrong forum area if your on a budget . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 The vintage side of tubes can be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted March 10, 2003 Author Share Posted March 10, 2003 Are there good quality ventage tubes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted March 10, 2003 Author Share Posted March 10, 2003 Ok so lets say I have $1000.00 budget... What can I expect to get on that. I want the best sound possible with that. Either tubes, sepparates or solid state... You guys need to know, I know jack crap about tubes and sepparates. At any rate, it sounds like she is having them professionaly created up. She talked to the shipping company and they highly suggested she use this one individual to come to her home, create them up and take them for her to the shipping company. That is a relief knowing they will be created up properly. She won't know how much that is going to cost until tomorrow. He is calling her back in the morning to give her a quote. Then most likely he will be coming over on Wednesday or Thursday to create them and haul them off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkrop Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 M00n,M00n MOON, You have fallen off the edge and arestill falling... upgraditis exemplar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted March 10, 2003 Share Posted March 10, 2003 Scott, Eico, Dynaco, Heathkit, Pilot, Lafayette, Magnavox, Sherwood, Fisher, it goes on and on. Rap with Craig,(NOSvalves). He reworks vintage amps for the folks around here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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