Klipsch Employees Trey Cannon Posted April 18, 2003 Author Klipsch Employees Share Posted April 18, 2003 I am sorry Al. That statement was not meant to be a slam. I will be more specific when we are finished, but at first glance it does look like your networks will work with the k-55-x, as should the AA network. This is all just a first look at the system. I want to confirm this all before we start telling people it will work. The ALK network looks very much like the AA in the curves. The impedance is more consistent in the ALK. (Good job!) I guess what I should have said is folks may want to consider the AK-4 as a complete upgrade. It does come with new HF drivers. At some time we will let the AK-4 schematic out, but not right now. BTW: The Khorns we are using to upgrade started with your networks in them, we changed them back to AA for the manual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cornell Posted April 18, 2003 Share Posted April 18, 2003 TREY I guess a set of new tops is out LOL OK! What do the transformers, and Zener diodes do on the AA, i see they are no longer in use on the new line!Do the new tweeters have any protection now? Regards Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted April 18, 2003 Share Posted April 18, 2003 Trey, Yes, I think your wording did imply a direct attack on my design. No harm done I suppose. I'm curious about the difference between the photograph of the network you just posted and the photo sent to me taken of the network in a production Khorn. The one you just posted looks well made and the other was a mess! It looked like a prototype or "breadboard". Why would a production speaker have a breadboard network in it? Does Klipsch plan to upgrade earlier versions of the AK-4? There is a major similarity between my network and the AA. Both are first order (6 dB / octave) networks crossing the woofer to the tweeter. That would make the response similar. The load presented to the amp will be quite different though. My design is constant impedance due to the addition of an additional part not found in the AA (the 39 uFd + 1 uFd bypass caps). Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch Employees Trey Cannon Posted April 18, 2003 Author Klipsch Employees Share Posted April 18, 2003 Al, I do apologize for my wording. I sometimes talk like Trey and not Klipsch, as I should. Steve and I were having so much fun learning about the Khorn, I kind of go carried away. I will email you the info I find about your networks. The first ak-4 was built point to point. We now have the network built on a PCB. Yes, it did look a mess and looks a ton better now. Some of the first production ak-4 Khorns have the point-to-point network. They sound the same. Therefore, we do not see the need to upgrade the early units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch Employees Trey Cannon Posted April 18, 2003 Author Klipsch Employees Share Posted April 18, 2003 Sorry, but they just will not sell cabinets. The transformers lowered the power to the mid horn. With the new driver there was no real need for the transformer. The zener diodes were for over power protection. The new units have a polyswitch for protection. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubelion Posted April 19, 2003 Share Posted April 19, 2003 Hey guys, I learn that the new drivers does not need a transformer, it is an upgrade to me. Trey, If I use Type A and new drivers, does it mean I can use no transformer, and keep the 13 and 2 mf. Hoe to order from your parts dept? website or email please. Thanks Tubelion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted April 19, 2003 Share Posted April 19, 2003 Trey, I think you should be more specific when you say that the new driver doesn't need a transformer. If the level has been replaced by a resistor pad, that statement is going to confuse a bunch of people just as it did "tubelion". I suspect that you could not reduce the sensitivity of the K55 driver to a point that would no require attenuation of some sort without messing up it's performace! I suggest that it DOES need either a transformer or a resistor pad. Using a resistor pad over a transformer is simply the judgment of the engineer who designed the network. Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch Employees Trey Cannon Posted April 19, 2003 Author Klipsch Employees Share Posted April 19, 2003 The k-55-x when used in with the ak-4 network does not need a autoformer. As AL stated, there are other ways to reduce the voltage to the mid. I can answer the question of what networks will the 55x work with after we finish our testing. We are only looking at the last 20 or so years. (AA,AK,AK-1,AK-2,AK-3) Therefore, it the driver will work with the A network would only be a guess. When we finish, I will post again and let you all know what we find. I can tell you this, after installing the AK-4 upgrade to one of Steve's 1977 Khorns, we could not tell the difference between the 2003 model and the 1977. Using the old woofer was not a issue. We have taken over 120 pic's so far. Most of them will end up in the manual. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted April 19, 2003 Share Posted April 19, 2003 Trey, I think that you will find that if the k55X will work with the AA and later networks, it will also work with the A network. This shows that its sensitivity is the same as the K55V and K55M drivers. This also says that the AK-4 MUST use a resistive attenuator pad to cut down the sensitivity to match the woofer and tweeter since there is no transformer. The photograph clearly shows "cement" type wire-wound power resistors that are normally used for "L" pads. By the way, wire-would resistors are ok. The tiny amount if inductance they have is totally insignificant and are even fine for the 10 Ohm swamping resistor in my network design. I have used them in a few places in the extreme-slope networks I am using in my modified Belles. Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cornell Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 Do not remove any transformers from the earlier networks, if you do your asking for squawker damage, leave them in, i also left in the Zener diodes! Trey Did you and Steve expierement with the woofers, directly hooked up, by passing the crossovers totally? Regards Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 Jim is right! The transformer makes the squawker filter act like a second order filter (12 dB / octave) at the extreme low end. This is becasue it's inductance is very high. Without it, extreme lows would get into the squawker driver and may fry it. The zeners are a bad idea though. They do protect the tweeter at high levels but do so by SHORTING OUT the amp! That's not so good! Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Phillips Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 Jim, We have not yet had a chance to do that, but we will next week. I haven't forgotten Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cornell Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 Steve I have a post in general called question, this is not agaisnt you Nor Trey, I hope you understand, there has to be a cheaper way for us than the upgrade! Regards Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
condorflyer Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 Trey, This may sound like a premature & dumb question.....the most recent posts focus on compatibility of older crossovers with the current squaker, but what about compatibility with the new tweeter? When I spoke with Klipsch technical support recently I was told the new tweeter would not work with my older crossover either (I have the type A network). Would appreciation any help. Thank you. Austin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch Employees Trey Cannon Posted April 21, 2003 Author Klipsch Employees Share Posted April 21, 2003 We are set up to test that tonight. We are to pull the ak-4 network out and place the AA in, leaving the drivers. One thing that all the testing does not tell us the whole story on is how it sounds. We have been listing to the new and upgrade khorn today. Trying to get as many ears" as we can. So far everyone agrees they are the same. We have to test for a bit, then listen for a bit. Speakers can test good and sound bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Cornell Posted April 21, 2003 Share Posted April 21, 2003 Its starting to sound like they might be compatable to our older k-horns if so i applogize on the Question thread in general! Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted May 1, 2003 Share Posted May 1, 2003 s=jw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted May 1, 2003 Share Posted May 1, 2003 Well John, PWK didn't like the L-pads, but the autoformers have 3 dB steps and a 1.5 dB step is now needed. The -X lost a little efficiency. I'll bet that 1.5 dB step was deemed too small to justify the $25 cost + development of a new autoformer. I won't mention its fashionability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubelion Posted May 1, 2003 Share Posted May 1, 2003 very well made type AA! Expensive as well! Why would the efficiency decrease by using tap x? Thanks Tubelion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Warren Posted May 2, 2003 Share Posted May 2, 2003 ~ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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