Whats up with this BB

[Fish]

I have noticed as of late lots of far out remarks about different equipment.I read the rsw 15 won't even go to 20hz,FALSE.I read this "special avr" has high current,ALL half way decent avr's are high current.I read Denon is ok,just not musical,thats absurd and is only an opinion stated as a fact.I read the Denon 2900 has a croma bug,it does NOT.I read the 2900 has a bass management problem,IT does not,I own one and it exceeds all MY expectations with perfect bass on all formats.It would seem some people state things as a fact,that are not.PLEASE state this is only an opinion as some may believe it is fact.If a new guy /gal comes here for info they may actually believe the rsw is just a bose in a big box,it ain't.I really am not trying to offend anyone,everyone has the right to their opinion,as long as they don't state it as a fact,without any scientific proof.Some of the things that are said here go to other forums and are repeated as facts,when they are usually just opinions.There are many here more knowledgeable than me,with great advise on lots of subjects.I found these people usually state facts from a real knowledge of the question.A person can go to many sites and read alot of total crap,this site has been one of the few that has higher standards.PLEASE lets keep it that way.

[Frzninvt]

I'm with you 100% on this one Fish, keep your stupid factless opinions or other's opinion's that you may have picked up in passing to yourself! I am getting sick of it too, Denon not musical - Hah, all receiver's are garbage gimme a break. Most of the times it comes from people that have never owned or even listened to it in a proper setting. Here is some advice, if you have nothing useful to contribute - Don't!

[easylistener]

Hi fishy! Go back and look at my post. There are many exceptions to the rule. Most people don't mean it as fact we just get sick of typing THIS IS MY OPINION. I am glad to see that you are standing behind the klipsch name. But remember there are sometimes better choices and that is what some of are trying to say. This just happens to happen a lot when it comes to subs.

[T2K]

Everything you read here is opinion.

Another thing, since I have a Denon receiver I feel I can state my opinion. As with any other receiver, proper setup and adjustment gives night and day differences in sound. An audition in a store is basically useless insofar as determining how it will sound properly set up in your home. MO.

Keith

[m00n]

When giving advice, I always try to add my disclamer that I don't have the technical knowledge to back this up if it is something I am not positive on. Or I state that I have read this here on these or another board before. I try to be very careful that I don't give misseading info. I think I do a decent job of that.

[jhawk92]

Is that a fact, or just your opinion Moon?

[m00n]

----------------

On 5/16/2003 12:13:50 PM jhawk92 wrote:

Is that a fact, or just your opinion Moon?

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It's that gray area between fact and fiction.

[mopar dave]

always read with an open mind and never assume. fish, what year is your cuda? dave

[BBB]

I think many posters here think of each other as friends and try to help when someone is about to make an expensive purchase that may have more hype than hop attached to it. The Denon 2900 issues at least SOUND to me like it is a player that performs like many other players out there. Come on everybody. Lets admit it. How many times have we read posts from so called experts, after some one said they were looking for a new DVD player, to wait for the Denon 2900 to come out. I dont know if anything is wrong with the player because I dont own one. On the other hand would I tell my best friend, that can only spend 1000 dollars this year for any new equipment for his home theater and wants a new DVD player, to run out and buy the 2900 based on the initial reports of the machine? Is it worth 900 dollars? It depends on the circumstances and ones audio/video setup. Many people have been eager to pick up this machine since it has been talked about like it was going to be the greatest thing since sliced bread. I dont like people putting products down if they dont have experience with them. Then again many of us would like to say Look out! before we let a friend drop money on a product that MAY have a few REPORTED problems even though they may not exist in the unit once it is set up properly by someone who knows what they are doing. There is always going to be the person around every forum who will be crying, Wolf concerning every new product that comes along. I feel confident in the maturity and experience of the majority of the members of this forum to be able to see through the nonsense and arrive at the facts before purchasing or returning a product. Can I say that the 2900 is special. NO. Can I say that the 2900 is over priced? NO. Can I say that everything Ive heard about the 2900 is true? NO. Can I let a friend know about OPINIONS or POSSIBLY POTENTIAL problems with some features that this unit MIGHT have based on my reading about the 2900 on some forums AFTER telling him they may not be factual and BEFORE he makes his OWN decision to buy one? YES. This concerns all products we may be interested in owning not just the Denon player. Everyone wants to feel comfortable with a decision they made on an investment in their system and not be ridiculed for it if it has turned out to be a mistake through no fault of their own. Good friends should guide each other to the top and lend a helping hand while at the bottom. Im tired of the incorrect info thrown out on many of these forums too. I think most of us can tell when weve been served a boloney sandwich without having to lose our bread. Speaking of boloney. JUST KIDDING!!!! but based on the RUMORS I think we should continue this discussion after dougdrakes expulsion from the forum is lifted. AGAIN, JUST KIDDING!!!!!! But you get the picture. Dont you? He he he he he

[dblue]

Fish,

Most of the time when I state my opinion on this site, it is when someone is asking for a recommendation, which inherently calls for an opinion. I try to only give opinions on things that I have experience with. And I think that one of your complaints above is a reference to my stating that my new 525 blows my 2802 away in terms of stereo music. Well, it does. Since there is no way to judge how something sounds without listening to it, it is inherent that that statement is my opinion. I paid special attention never to speak of any other Denon model, as I have only owned the 2802. In fact, I have heard many complaints about the 2802's 'musicality'.

I'm not in any way trying to start a debate here, just trying to point out that things probably aren't as bad as they seem.

[dblue]

OK Fish,

I see that you were refering to another post, not my own. So I retract the above arguement.

[dodger]

Greetings:

As a perfect example of "critic license," I have been told that the Cornwall is a poor speaker, that all Klipsch sound tinny because of horn use. Also been told tube Marantz far surpasses tube McIntosh, and so on.

Moon sums it with "it's an opinion."

It also has relevance to your particular hearing curve - how well you hear what, if anything at all.

Different cables, Interconnects, even recordings sound different to different people. Or if you listen to some of the Beatles cd's they sound fast, yet G. Martin assisted on the re-manufacture - did he forget or did he just take the money?

If it sounds good to you, you don't have to have it repaired numerous times, you're happy - that's what counts. Yes adding a disclaimer is all well and good, but we have to take the chance ourselves and we live with it. We may think we're experts, but sometimes even a poorly rated unit performs well and sounds good so where does that leave us?

If you buy it for me, no strings attached, pay for upkeep and electricity, clean it then I'll allow someone to dictate what to own to me.

Otherwise, we're human, have our own preferences and tastes which equal an opinion, not a definite. Yes, check the facts and have fun reading and learning different things on this Board.

Thank You for teaching me and I'm off my long soapbox.

[kenratboy]

The real question is are 'audiophiles' listening to music anymore, or are they spending money at audio shops and posting on forums to praise the gear that they just bought and is still in the box in the entryway

[Fish]

Frz,thanks. Easy,you stated that no Klipsch sub goes to 20hz,incorrectly. Kieth,correct. m00n,we all know you just want to help. Jhawk,good one. BBB,its always best to buy and try,if you don't like it,return it(buy where you can).I understand your points. dblue,correct,and you have the right to prefer any brand,others may be happy with the 2802.The point is thats your opinion as you hear it.At least you are not making blanket statements about ALL products. dodger,some good points. MOPAR DAVE,VERY NICE CUDA! Mine is a 74 E body 360,but it is all original,except wheels,which I have and 10 year old paint)Even the air cond. 39,000 miles,no rust, no dash cracks,never rain or snow.I love MOPARS!

[easylistener]

They can't fish. They will hit 20hz but so will a sony or bose, which does say much. For there great. Fish have you ever done a test tone at 20hz? Or lets say 19hz. Fish have you ever owned any other sub? How much did you pay for yours? Guess what you can get better performance for half the price. And agian he wasn't talking about the 15. I am thinking you are very harsh. If you guys don't like my comments then start a thread and if you get a bunch of people that agree then I will leave. Leave for good. I hope I am helping people, and that is what I try and do.

[middlecreekguy]

<<<<<

Pronunciation: 'fOr-&m, 'for-

Function: noun

Inflected Form(s): plural forums also fo·ra /-&/

Etymology: Latin; akin to Latin foris outside, fores door -- more at DOOR

Date: 15th century

1 a : the marketplace or public place of an ancient Roman city forming the center of judicial and public business b : a public meeting place for OPEN discussion c : a medium (as a newspaper) of open discussion or expression of ideas

2 : a judicial body or assembly : COURT

3 a : a public meeting or lecture involving audience discussion b : a program (as on radio or television) involving discussion of a problem usually by several authorities>>>>>>

This is how websters defines it. Of course different authorities have different opinions. This is what makes a web-site forum so entertaining. You can read what someone has pronounced "the truth", and think to yourself, that`s BS, have a chuckle, and go on to the next thread. By stating that one is tired of reading what people think is "the truth", is really a statement that one is tired of reading other people`s opinions that one does not agree with. Most all advise is a personal opinion. Just like what you just read.

[Earle Decker]

My opinion is, If you are happy with your HT/Music system that is all that really counts. I will ask for advice, but I buy what makes me happy.

Earle

[Fish]

Hey EAsy,here's a fact,in the lab "the rsw15,one of the best measuring subs weve ever seen had prodigious low frequency output,it went all the way down to 16 hz in a 7500 cu ft room,in smaller rooms expect 2to 3 hz deeper extension and 3db more output."Tom Nousaine,Sound and Vision MAY 2002.NOW we all know that it is not 115db at 16hz,but thats not what you said.Yes there are subs that do 20hz better,I owned about 20,some of the forum favorites.The rsw15 filled the bill for MY needs,I could have had any I want.I could have spent half,I tried,maybe the performance for you would do,not me.As to you leaving this forum I would much rather you stay,state all the opnions you want.I like opinions,just don't dog the Klipsch without hard facts.Also which BOSE,SONY compares to the rsw,or the ksw for that matter? To the Latin aspect, an opinion is GREAT,two heads can be better than one.BUT what if I say Khorns only go from 40hz to 13k hz,is that an opinion?

[easylistener]

Fishy fishy fishy

Go back to the orginal thread in ht. There are some people that agree with me. Check out http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_8_4/subwoofers-12-2001.html It shows that the rsw15 rolls of at 25hz like a crazy roller coaster. Like i said any sub can hit 20hz, it just depends on how much distortion there is and how loud it realy is. So yes the rsw subs are good but non of them will hit 20hz clean with authorty. I am sorry if this makes you upset. I do understand that you have to stand behind your expensive purchase. I also under stand your false statements make you feel better.

For everyone else I am sorry I am getting so hasty, I normally don't. But I have done a lot of research and listening and this is how it is. A lot of people agree and alot of them don't. If you look back at the sub post you will see that a lot of people have been stating what I am. So agian I am sorry.

[Fish]

EAsy Writer,please refer me to the article that said BOSE(AS YOU STATED) goes to 20hz.I think you really convinced me with the BOSE,SONY 20 OR 40?I only need PROOF these perform as you say.Forget the stand by my purchase routine,I buy based on what sounds best to me.My quote is in print by a guy I think may have more credibility than you.Again I'm not saying the rsw15 is the best HT sub,it is a great sub for music 5.1 concerts.It is a very good sub that I would not sell for the 1200.00 I paid for it.The rsw15 does 20hz at 97 db in the lab,like it or lump it,your statement is still incorrect.