Deang Posted May 20, 2003 Share Posted May 20, 2003 ...and buy my custom crossovers using some of the best parts in the industry. I would like to build another set based on the AudioCap Theta film and foils. Basically, this next set is going to be cost no object. However, with money being the way it is these days -- I need to recoup the investment from the first set, as well as wait another three weeks before money starts to free up again. The RF-7 is already a great speaker -- but these crossovers definitely crank things up a notch or two. I am offering these for $375 shipped. Kind of pricey -- buy you get what you pay for. I was going to hand these to Bob Gassel next month for him and the R&D guys at Klipsch to play with for a while -- but the budget doesn't really allow me the luxury of building the new ones from scratch without the additional cash these would bring. If you are using the RF-7 in a HT system, it would be necessary to upgrade the other speakers as well in order to maintain perfect timbre matching. The RC-7, or another RF-7 can be upgraded for about $150. The two rears should probably only need to have the tweeter circuit upgraded. If the person who buys these has a HT system, I would do the work for free -- they would only have to send me the original crossovers and pay for parts. These will come with complete installation instructions, and the internal wiring will be labeled. No soldering, as all of the wires are terminated with Panduit gold plated quick connects. The entire process takes less than an hour for both speakers. I guarantee a jaw dropping improvement. You get them for two weeks, and if you decide you don't want them -- send them back. Below is the parts list with prices rounded to the nearest dollar. As you can see, I'm not exactly making a killing on these. Four 1% 12W non-inductive Mills resistors - $14 Four Audience Auricaps - $94 Four ICW SA Series Clarity Caps - $117 Four Madisound Custom Wound Inductors - $10 2 Solen Perfect Lay Inductors 14 AWG - $20 Northcreek Audio copper/silver/teflon wire - $14 Terminals/screws/gold plated quick connects/boards - $20 Approximate Total UPS Charges - $35 Total - $324 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted May 20, 2003 Author Share Posted May 20, 2003 Hey Dave -- you survived 'The Chair', how about helping me move these things with a good word or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted May 20, 2003 Share Posted May 20, 2003 YOu mentioned timbre matching... How much of a difference do you suppose it would make? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted May 20, 2003 Author Share Posted May 20, 2003 You know m00n (what the hell is your name anyways -- do we really have to keep calling you 'm00n' -- I really don't know. The problem is that I don't really know much about HT. I do venture into HT forums every now and the mostly because I'd like to eventually get into some multi-channel music. My understanding with the timbre matching bit is that it is freaking critical for creating a transparent soundfield. Compared to the stock version, my RF-7's are more authoritative on the low end, a wee bit (and I mean a wee bit) less in the face yet still very transparent in the middle, and a top end that's as smooth as glass. They are still RF-7's -- with better bass and without the hash and grain. I think you would have to do the center, but the rears could be done later if at all. You would know for sure after you had the setup for a while. If it was my system, I would do the center just for the improvement it would bring -- not so much for the timbre matching issue. You might want to confer with Horned or Boa -- I'm out of my realm when it comes to HT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted May 20, 2003 Share Posted May 20, 2003 Ah my name, it's Rick. Hmm, very tempting here. Wife said I could get a new set of RF7s, but I just don't have the money right this minute to buy them and not sure that I want to futz with modifying the sound of my theater right now considering I am trying to get it sounding as best as possible right now. Not sure if I need to cloud that up by putting new crossovers in my L/R right now. I think I will have to pass on them, however, I would be very willing to try to work something out with you if you will allow me peek into what your about to do with your new set and make a copy from what your doing. This way when I do decide to buy a new set of RF7s I can put the new and improved DeanG X-overs in those. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted May 20, 2003 Author Share Posted May 20, 2003 Ha ha -- you're a funny guy. The difference will be going from the best metallized polypropylenes to the best film and foils. This next set will run about $600. Ready to copy that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted May 20, 2003 Share Posted May 20, 2003 MOON - I thought your real name was Cosmo!! Rick? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted May 20, 2003 Share Posted May 20, 2003 ---------------- On 5/20/2003 9:17:38 PM DeanG wrote: Ha ha -- you're a funny guy. The difference will be going from the best metallized polypropylenes to the best film and foils. This next set will run about $600. Ready to copy that? ---------------- Yeah I can handle that but it's like I said, I have nothing to put them in right now. ---------------- On 5/20/2003 9:45:42 PM garymd wrote: MOON - I thought your real name was Cosmo!! Rick? ---------------- Hey, it could be worse. My dad wanted to name me Theron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted May 20, 2003 Share Posted May 20, 2003 Sorry, Dean, I've been a-crate haulin' all day As someone who more or less abandoned the Reference series when building my systems, I must say that Dean's RF-7's aren't your ordinary RF-7s.....these are a much more refined version, to be sure. I demoed the RF's on several occasions, and found them to be unlistenable - especially in the retail environments and gear. Too shrill and sibilant, and unnatural in the mids, which seem to get overshadowed by the ear shredding. Just too fatiguing for my ears. They are Klipsch to be sure, but are in need of a bit of tweaking IMO. I am also admittedly very biased toward horn midrange - I've yet to hear cones that really do it for me. Time and time again my ears desire the heritage midrange, and with exception to vintage Altec and JBL (too rich for my blood), I find difficulty getting away from this preference. Since Dean had that special crate loaded with my '74 Cornwalls, I thought this would be a good time to pay Dean, and his RF-7's, a visit. This was the first RF-7 demo that I really enjoyed. Granted, the tube gear Dean uses sure helps, but these RF-7's sound much smoother and more natural, without sibilance - detail without fatigue. Dean is certanly onto something here.....I see all the Heritage folk re-doing their crossovers, I think it's time for the Reference owners to consider doing the same. While I won't be dumping my Heritage for the RF's, I find that most of the compliants about the RF's were no longer a problem in Dean's system. The exception is in the midrange - it's still not as good as the horns (to my ears, anyway), but is much improved. It's certainly "in the neighborhood". m00n - If you are considering this, I would do all three across the front. You might start with the mains, then do the center later if you like the results. I would first make damn sure that you are keeping the RF's for the long haul (it does sound that way) - it's a fairly expensive tweak to just end up selling later. But if you are keeping them, it's definitely worthwhile. Crossovers make a difference! BTW Dean, the Cornwalls RULE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 Oh yeah, I have no desire to sell my RF7s. Dean has me very curious as to his plans for his next project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 Hey as long as were on the subject of RF-7's . Do any of you get VTV mag ?? The latest issue has a review of the RF-7 with pretty Favorable comments. The issue also has the 6550/KT88 shootout !! Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted May 21, 2003 Author Share Posted May 21, 2003 Craig, what is it, and how do I get a copy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 Craig, no I have never heard of that magazine. Perhaps they have a website with the review on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted May 21, 2003 Author Share Posted May 21, 2003 ah...found that picture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted May 21, 2003 Share Posted May 21, 2003 guys email me if you want to know what the article said hint hint !! Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLM Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 Hi, I'm new here, but have been lurking on and off for a couple of months. Background: 46 year old male, been interested in audio for 30+ years. Have always had solid state, but my next amp will be tube based. Am very interested in Decware SE84CS (1.8 wpc, EL84 based single ended triode, $700.00, only 7 components, no wiring-just leads between components, made in America's heartland, faster/quieter/more accurate/more detailed/better imaging than 2A3 or 45 based SET's). Still in search of the perfect CD/SACD/DVDa player with remote control and variable 4 volt output. Plan to build a dedicated listening room/office 13 feet x 19 feet x 8.5 feet in the next couple of years. I've come to the conclusion that crossovers are evil, but that there is no such thing as a single truely full range driver, like so many of the SET fans would suggest. The Jordan 92S comes the closest at 40 - 20,000 Hz, but I want to reach at least 30 Hz and do it with a single crossover. Of course with a whopping 1.8 wpc, my ideal speaker would have to be quite efficient (the Jordans are only about 87 dB/w/m). I'm not a headbanger, but the ideal speaker would play jazz, pop, classical, and classic rock at substantial but sane levels (60 - 100 dB). It was another poster here, who also posts to the Decware site, that reported how good his RF-5s and 7s sounded with his SE84CS that got me over here. I've only briefly heard the RF 3s, 5s, and 7s on solid state and rather liked what I heard (detailed, dynamic, good tonality, a more forward presentation than most speakers). Comment: Compared to the Decware site, there doesn't seem to be much detailed information on the Klipsch site regarding the design/construction of their products. Wonder why. Question (finally): Please specify the design of the crossover (frequency and slope). thanks! jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted May 22, 2003 Share Posted May 22, 2003 I love the sound of a single-ended EL-84 amp, but not for seven hundred bucks. Scrounge up a old Magnavox SE EL-84 amp and rebuild it. They are a simple circuit, and you would save a lot of cash. You'll be suprised how ballsy this weeny little 2 watt amp is, especially if you bump up the values of the resistor and cap for cathode bypass. I rebuilt one, it's quiet and sounds great. My cost? Twenty bucks. YMMV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted May 23, 2003 Author Share Posted May 23, 2003 "I've come to the conclusion that crossovers are evil, but that there is no such thing as a single truely full range driver, like so many of the SET fans would suggest." Everything in the signal path is evil, including the drivers. That's why I think it's important to keep things simple and use the best parts possible. There several good quality full range types -- the problem is the high IM distortion inherent in using them that way. A crossover with good parts and a design that integrates the chosen drivers, and plays them to their strengths is definitely the way to go. Why limit your options? The type B crossover in the Cornwall has very few parts and would also be a great speaker for SET -- especially in that room you plan on building. I don't know of any speaker manufacturer that publishes all of the design specifics of their products -- especially the crossover circuit. The whole thing is as much art as science, and if I were a designer of a successful design -- I might keep it all pretty close to the vest myself. Of course, anyone with the proper instruments can take a speaker down and test the specifics and reverse engineer the whole thing. Though I have learned quite a bit about the circuit, I am neither an artist or an engineer, and I don't really understand everything going on in it. Even knowing what I know, I won't discuss it openly on the Klipsch public forum -- as the circuit is being used in current production. However, if you were an RF-7 owner, and were interested in this mod -- I would be more than happy to help through email correspondance. BTW -- you might find that room excessively large to accomodate low wattage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnalOg Posted May 23, 2003 Share Posted May 23, 2003 Dean, What about RF3II crossovers Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted May 23, 2003 Author Share Posted May 23, 2003 What about them? I've never looked inside an RF-3. Why don't you take them out and look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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