Griffinator Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 So I sit here referencing a song I've been mixing (one of my own) on a cheap boombox (to make sure Joe idiot is going to like the way it sounds) and suddenly I stop. Now I'm wondering. Why the hell should I care if Joe idiot who doesn't care enough about music to buy a decent sound system thinks my material sounds good on his crappy boombox? I mean, really. I don't produce what one would call "mainstream" music to begin with - I'm a prog rocker and an abstract techno producer. What in the hell possesses me to try and make my music sound good on some P.O.S. sound system owned by some jackass who doesn't care anything about music except whether or not he can sing along with the chorus?! Someone help me out here, because I think I'm about to erupt into some serious audio snobbery. Maybe I'm just pissed off that I have to invest so much money into my monitoring system to make sure everything sounds so perfect only to have whatever I produce end up being played in some jackass car stereo over the FM dial, or worse yet played forced mono over some jackass office P.A. system. I don't know. I think I'm probably just tired, p-d off, and a little drunk. Respond if you will. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 "I think I'm about to erupt into some serious audio snobbery" Sounds like you're already there. Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted June 19, 2003 Author Share Posted June 19, 2003 ---------------- Sounds like you're already there. ---------------- OK, I asked for that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 ---------------- On 6/19/2003 12:25:49 AM talktoKeith wrote: "I think I'm about to erupt into some serious audio snobbery" Sounds like you're already there. Keith ---------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenratboy Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 Well, most audio is mixed on big, expensive systems, just use your system and be done with it. As long as there are no square waves of bass, you should be OK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Garrison Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 If everyone's final mixdown was designed to sound okay on cheap equipment, and no one cared enough to try and produce music that sounds good on good equipment, then why would anyone buy decent equipment? Nothing would sound good on it anyway. Make the music that makes you happy. Mix it to sound as good as it can possibly sound. By striving to serve the lowest common denominator you become one. Annuit coeptis - novus ordo seclorum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 Griff- I feel your pain. I try to look at it like this. Enjoyment of music is not only based on quality of sound. You know this as well as I. Look at our equipment lists. Most of the very talented musicians that I know have marginal playback equipment. They are listening to MUSIC, not AUDIO! That should not preclude us from striving for the best recording quality possible. And by all means, a relative few of us even strive for great playback systems. I don't see it as a mainstream/underground contrast. I've enjoyed movies that have great content on a marginal TV in the past. Movies with marginal content but that look great are less enjoyable in that context. If you want to skew your mix/master process towards a better playback rig, it's risk and you know it. Sometimes you can get away with some things a bit more than others, and the whole deal is a crap shoot anyway. Like I said, I feel your pain. It's kind of like if a painter had to deal with galleries that made people wear tinted glasses of random colors. I'm rambling, I think you get my drift. Hang in there. You know, it's funny, I almost brought this up in another thread, but I was a little drunk, too, and thought I might not make any sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 Griff, I agree with you whole heartedly! I do some live recording, mixing/mastering & production too. If it sounds good on my main system, it sounds good anywhere. And you are absolutely right. Why mix for some schmuck who doesn't care & doesnt have the gear to show up the difference anyway? Yet that is exactly what the record companies producers do. For instance, whats the point in putting one cymbal far left & another far right when the boombox guy has speakers that are 12 to 18 inches apart? And when most people dont have their stereo speakers more than a few feet apart? All it does is mess up the soundstaging on accurate systems. And the other people with lesser systems dont really care. Kenrat..Well, most audio is mixed on big, expensive systems, just use your system and be done with it. WRONG my friend. I have been in a lot of recording studios over the years. And most have equipment that would make the average audiophile cringe. In fact most audio is mixed on small near-field monitors. Now the mastering process, thats something different. Usually a different studio & engineer where they tweek the balance & tone at the 2 track phase & get the spacing between tracks, cross fades, etc. just right. Here you will probably see larger built-in-wall systems with speakers like Urei Time-Align. Even then, they are often using equipment most high-end audiophiles wouldnt touch like Crown or Carver SS amps. One mastering studio I was at even used cheapo Awia tape cassette decks (excellent deck for the money, but it aint no Nakamichi Dragon). These guys make a living doing this & things like reliability & financial reality are what dictate their choices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 I know everyone here hasn't done recording/producing/engineering, even though it sounds like it. I also mix on nearfields, or something slightly larger (JBL 4311s). For a CD or vinyl release I would certainly send the two track out to a mastering lab. The cost would be well worth it. Most of the time for me it is a hobby. I have friends who are still trying to make it big after 25 years together. I have helped them with demos, played on some of their tracks, ended up not playing on some of their tracks. Jingles, news themes. From two inch analog to my present day ADAT (or HD based recording). Make it sound good on your own higher end gear, and it will usually sound good on the junk. I remember studios that had a line out of their $80k console feeding a boombox, to hear how the cheap speakers would sound. Marvel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tillerman Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 I am a huge fan of new and old prog rock, among other genres. Keep the quality up and the compression down. There is way too much low fi recorded material as it is. Tell us more about the prog rock you record. Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arthurs Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 I have no expertise in this area, but how about this griff? You should cretae to your fullest potential and unleash music you're proud of and love because it's for you anyway. It will probably get played on crappy systems and not be appreciated no matter what you do, but you'll always be able to tap into the pride and joy it gave you to create it. Control what you can control, f the rest of it ...Peace brother... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DLUngurait Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 I've worked at various film and video post-production studios (NOT MUSIC RECORDING STUDIOS). Normally we would have three different pairs of speakers in our audio suites. The main sets would be full sized monitors from the likes of JBL, Tannoy, Genelec etc... (every engineer had their favorite). The mid-fields always seemed to be Yamaha NS-10's, not sure why since I always thought they sounded overly bright, but this did provide a bit of a reference from studio to studio. The nearfields always seemed to be these crappy little cubes from Auratone, I never understood why we paid so much money for something that was designed to sound bad. 99% of all the mixing would be done w/ the larger monitors but then played back on the other various speakers to check if the mix worked for them as well. We had one client that always insisted we make him an audio cassette so he could go and listen to it in his car before he would approve the mix. Amplification was almost always Crown or Hafler. My wife probably listens to music more than I do, but she insists on listening to it on a little her little Sony boombox even when she's not in the same room! Although I know she is intimidated by my system, and possibly she wants to annoy me, she really justs wants to HEAR music...not judge the technical soud quality of the playback system. So the good news is I get to keep my LaScalas in the divorce settlement. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted June 19, 2003 Author Share Posted June 19, 2003 ---------------- On 6/19/2003 4:59:05 PM DLUngurait wrote: I've worked at various film and video post-production studios (NOT MUSIC RECORDING STUDIOS). Normally we would have three different pairs of speakers in our audio suites. The main sets would be full sized monitors from the likes of JBL, Tannoy, Genelec etc... (every engineer had their favorite). The mid-fields always seemed to be Yamaha NS-10's, not sure why since I always thought they sounded overly bright, but this did provide a bit of a reference from studio to studio. The nearfields always seemed to be these crappy little cubes from Auratone, I never understood why we paid so much money for something that was designed to sound bad. 99% of all the mixing would be done w/ the larger monitors but then played back on the other various speakers to check if the mix worked for them as well. We had one client that always insisted we make him an audio cassette so he could go and listen to it in his car before he would approve the mix. Amplification was almost always Crown or Hafler. My wife probably listens to music more than I do, but she insists on listening to it on a little her little Sony boombox even when she's not in the same room! Although I know she is intimidated by my system, and possibly she wants to annoy me, she really justs wants to HEAR music...not judge the technical soud quality of the playback system. So the good news is I get to keep my LaScalas in the divorce settlement. Dave ---------------- The NS-10M's were always in just about every recording studio I've ever been in. There's one simple reason - if it sounds good on a pair of NS-10M's, it will sound good on any speaker system. The little cubes in your video post studios were to simulate the sound of TV speakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horonzak Posted June 19, 2003 Share Posted June 19, 2003 GRIFF....I know what you mean. After 25 years I had enough. I wont go back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted June 20, 2003 Share Posted June 20, 2003 Scott, The problem with most new and old prog rock was that it DID have heavy compression. If it went on vinyl it had to, and if it went over the air on AM it certainly was. Play some old vinyl back through something that has decent metering, and you will see what I mean. Had a Stones album that pointed this out clearly (can't remember which, it was a long time ago), as the playback was within about 6db. All the way through. TV commercials are done the same way. You don't want dynamics over the air, somebody might miss something. Marvel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBB Posted June 20, 2003 Share Posted June 20, 2003 Lay down the highest quality tracks you can regardless of what equipment it may end up being played on. Keep it clean and simple. Make your statement and get out. Less is more. Youll find that out when it becomes time to master. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted June 20, 2003 Share Posted June 20, 2003 "Annuit coeptis - novus ordo seclorum." The lowest common denominator being the $1 bill??? Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cluless Posted June 20, 2003 Share Posted June 20, 2003 BBB- Less is more???? hehehe Clu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cluless Posted June 20, 2003 Share Posted June 20, 2003 Hey BBB, Happy to know that I have at least one fan out there. Less Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted June 20, 2003 Share Posted June 20, 2003 Griff----One's system is no indicator of how much they love music, to think that is silly. Think of all the people who love music and can't, for whatever reason, have a nice hi-fi. And then there are people who connect directly to the music regardless of what it's played on; tranistor radio or big hi-fi, it matters not to them. One of my daughters is like that, love music and listens constantly and is knowledgeable about it and could care less what she hears it over. I think she has an advantage over audiophiles, don't you think? A good reason to mix for music to sound good on modest stereos is so more people can possibly enjoy your music. Motown used to mix like that and lots of Motown stuff actually sounds bad on a good hi-fi. But zillions of people love the music. If you do as well as them you'll be doing well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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