Another Woman Posted August 3, 2003 Share Posted August 3, 2003 It makes me sad that Listener is all history now and I missed it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reel 2 reel Posted August 3, 2003 Share Posted August 3, 2003 I miss the old Rodrigues... cartoons in stereo review...now in S and V all you get are video stuff reviews and the same ads in every issue.....don't think I'm going to resubscribe........gc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Garrison Posted August 4, 2003 Share Posted August 4, 2003 You probably know this, but just in case a Listener fan isn't aware, Art was hired by Stereophile and is now writing monthly columns for them. Good ones, two. Only Art would have boldly proclaimed that his cat didn't like pot smoke on the outside of the jacket's binder (spine???) on each issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted August 4, 2003 Share Posted August 4, 2003 It isn't the same old Art. He has to toe the $tereophile line. No longer will you hear him extol the virtue of an ST-70 and a couple of 'horns. Price of entry for that sound is now about 10 times that. I understand, but Art's politics without bunnies and common sense just isn't much fun for me. I loved Listener because it explored the experience as well as the trappings of audiophilia. The letters were the best anywhere. Tamara: Welcome to very to our world. My experience is that women have better hearing than men, but I don't know why so few are interested in our hobby. My wife is, but you won't find her hanging out here as long as I take care of it. OTOH, you will find her hanging out around the LP bins at any recycle shop. As to mags, I rec'd the Audiophile Voice for the remainder of my Listener subscription. I didn't like it well enough to resubsribe, but you might. I take $tereophile, though struggle with renewel every time. I like the letters and occasionally find a useful equipment review or music review, but I only continue because there just isn't much out there anymore. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBryan Posted August 4, 2003 Share Posted August 4, 2003 I too enjoyed most every issue of Listener and was heart-broken when it folded. I was in the process of re-subscribing when the magazine went under so I guess I was lucky enough not to end up with a full year's supply of AV. I also get Stereophile but there's only a handful articles and reviews each year that appeal to me but I still feel its worth $12/year for Michael, Sam and now Art's take on their slice of audio - at least until Listener is resurrected (don't hold your breathe). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Bey Posted August 4, 2003 Share Posted August 4, 2003 Scr*w the hoitie toitie audio press and the holier-than-thou audio BBs. Pick up a pair of full-range horn loaded Klipshorns and tell them to blow smoke out their ****. Rethink the tubes thing. The best thing I did was ditch the mid-fi SS amp for a tube amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Another Woman Posted August 4, 2003 Share Posted August 4, 2003 Dave, thanks for the warm welcome and I'll look at a copy of Audiophile Voice when I get to Barnes and Noble and see what I think. Tamara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaos5 Posted August 4, 2003 Share Posted August 4, 2003 Just remeber to listen to what you like. My girlfriend heard my setup and was happy. She likes industrial and techno, as well as having season tickets to the symphony, and she noted that my living room sounds better than the club she prefers. She was happy, and so was I, especially after we discovered that we both had season seats to the opera, so I set her up with a an old receiver and CD player, plus a 5.1 setup (KG2.5/KV2/KG1.5/SW-8). Now she raves about the sound in her living room, and everyone is happy. She doesn't know that I have some Hersey's and a new amp on the way, and though we are just casually house hunting, everything is being sized up for a Cornwall/Chorus/Heritage (whatever I can afford - and Klipsch is affordable) HT setup, and all of my voice matched smaller KG stuff that she enjoys now will be distributed through the rest of the dwelling for sound in the other rooms...(and since I wire houses for data & such as a side biz, we'll get there quickly.) I have friends who have spent more on a pair of Theil's than I have ever spent on audio. They like my Klipsch. My sister and brother-in-law have dropped thousands on a very nice Energy/NAD setup, and they like the used Klipsch I have put in for quite a bit less. The guy who turned me onto Klipsch sold me his KG5.5's when life in the army forced him to downsize did well and now he listens to RB's, and we both enjoy the sound. Now I do my best to pass on what I was given, having turned at least four other folks onto the joy of Klipsch. Klipsch = bang for the buck. Find what you love, and enjoy them. Move up to Heritage as soon as you can. And if you don't mind big boxes, all the better. My girlfriend said as long as it sounds good, she won't mind three Cornwalls across the front of the room, and I couldn't be happier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 Wow, what a gal...I need to find me one! I didn't know women like that even existed! Every single woman I've either dated or gone out with have never cared for audio, could never understand my fascination with gear and realistic sound reproduction, and always complained when I played my music loud! One ex would even cover her ears at every loud scene of any film at the movie theatres we'd attend! Women like cluless, Georgie, and Tamara are rare indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shock-Late Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 " And reading these 'reviewers' describe how they hear monstrous differences between interconnects, power cords, even accessories like mana stands! I tell you these people need therapy" Lemonman, I admit those accessories are often overpriced. But IMHO they CAN produce a great audible difference. It's ridiculous to say that because you own Klipsch speakers you can't make your system sound 5 or 10% better by choosing the right accessories. If your amplifier uses expensive components inside for better signal purity, it's silly to use bell-wire as speaker cable. If your CD player gives you the most detailed sound around it's silly to compromise that by using cheapy tandy interconnects. Same goes for vibrations: a good stand can really improve the sound. (in fact it doesn't improve the sound, it isolates it from spurious vibrations that shouldn't come in the way, OK...) It seems to me that just because klipsch speakers are easy to drive and sound quite good with most gear make some people think that you can't get more of them by taking every detail into account... just my thoughts of course. But IMHO if I can hear the differences between interconnects using Scalas, everyone can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 Well, I think the truth lies in between. I'm certain many audiophiles hear these differences, but my personal belief is they are just that, differences. I have no pricey interconnects in my system, and I hear nothing that would make me want to get them. Few, if any, professionals in the recording industry spend anything on mic cables except to insure they are flexible, very strong, and reliable. I do this, but it is for those reasons, not because they sound better. This hobby has a lot of room for various permutations of interest. Interconnects are a valid one that many find great pleasure and improvement from. Others do not. I hear significant differences in amps, say, SS vs. tube, but even that is only qualitative if you have a preference for one over the other. Even our preference for K'horns is based on a desire for a very clinical, no compromise sound. Others like other approaches better. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arj Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 Before buying My RF-3II's i did go to all those "review" sites..found an interesting one by Wes Marshall here. perhaps you folks might find it interesting..in case you have not seen it already !! http://www.hometheatersound.com/equipment/klipsch_reference.htm Another one ..a face off with polk & RBH http://www.hometheatermag.com/fullarchives.cgi?41 An Italian review of RF-3 http://www.tnt-audio.com/casse/klipsch-rf3_e.html Another one in new-zealand http://www.audioenz.co.nz/2003/klipsch_rf3_ht-system.shtml Pretty nice ! Cheers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBryan Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 I have tried various types of ICs and speaker wires and IMO, the differences are pretty obvious but as Shock-Late and Dave said, their based on preference more so than performance. Zip cord does exactly the same thing as a $5000 pair of speaker cables - it just does it differently. If someone tells you that the sound is the same, first check out their room and equipment for shortcomings and then hand them a Q-Tip and explain the finer points of ear wax removal. In my experience, silver transfers a more detailed signal while copper tends toward a smoother one. All components should match with each other and the room. In that sense, its easier to look at wires and cables as a way to equalize and mix the sound. For instance, if you feel that your Khorns sound too bright and forward, you may want to try a set of copper speaker cables known for their "laid back" image. If that's not enough, then you might try similar ICs. Conversely, if you're looking for more detail and a crisper image, try silver. The wires will also help with impedance-matching which also effects the sound and is especially important when using SET amps and horns. While wires do make a difference, often bass response is better addessed by room treatments. My point is that there's a price for everything but the most expensive wires and cables may not be the best sounding in your system. You can always improve your system and no matter how much time and money you spend, you'll never achieve perfect reproduction. Just my opinion of course and to each his/her own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 I subscribe to Stereophile magazine. But then I feel as if I have NO other choice. First, they have these wonderful buck an issue price offers. Whether I agree with the author or can afford the equipment (rarely), I always enjoy the articles and end up reading the latest issue from cover to cover. It is an evenings delightful entertainment for only a dollar. (Little Miss Sensitive Ears, with whom I permanently share my humble abode, is aware of this behavior and absconds with the issue until her plans for the evening are finished.) Second, Stereophile is the preeminent authority for objective sonic measurements. They have been around forever, with the same reliable and informative, though many times obtuse, evaluations of high-end audio. They may NOT always hold a practical penny up to their candle, but they are the primary scientific reviewers in the audio industry examining the golden eggs in the candlelight. Third, just like Sound and Vision magazine, which I do NOT read, I am aware that my enjoyment as a subscriber is a paltry secondary concern of theirs, compared to the primary one of soliciting and keeping corporate advertising sponsors. They dont write for just me and I know it. My pleasure is subsidized by the advertisers. It is a world of compromises. The advertisers hope that I receive and respond to their messages; while actually I choose to ignore them. Besides, I cant afford 9/10 of the stuff that either magazine writes about. Same thing can be said for Car and Driver or Road and Track magazines too. Hell, I am surprised at what the typical person is supposed to pay for the average automobile. Guys, get real! These are depreciating assets. They go down in value. NOT hardly the kind of thing we should be investing billions inevery year. (17.4 million US vehicle sales in 2001!) I still marvel that all of us dont drive continually recycled VWs and Volvos from the 60s. So as my pick-up truck faithfully rolls past 113K miles, I read the car mags NOT for the practical necessity of which vehicle gives me the very best repair record, comfort and safety for the money, but for the thrill of the ride. For the merely rational numbers, I have Consumer Reports used car surveys. I dont need to know how the new Mercedes limo looks and feels like, or how a $300K Bentley rides. I want to know. I want to see some lucky dog slip into buttery bucket seats and punch the accelerator down to 110 mph in 9 seconds, while hanging onto the leather steering wheel with two hands for his dear departed life, as the exotic, money-is-NO-object, and cheap Iraqi oil is headed our way; custom made, red or yellow, Italian-designed, 400+ HP rocket sled slings around black roads, with green shoulders that spell certain death, in places that troopers rarely visit. I want that thrill ride. If only vicariously. I know that I will never see an article that says that a used Japanese pick-up truck will last longer, cost less to purchase and to maintain and give a better, more thrilling ride (NOT!) than a new mediocre American sedan for four times the money. There is NO huge industry for used pick-up trucks to support the magazines; anymore than there is one to support big old horn loudspeakers. Fourth, I know from experience that publishers want articles about new pieces of equipment. Tweaking audiophiles may be seeking the economical dream system, assembled from favorite pieces here and there, but publishers want reviews. The more the better. The more hooks in the water, the more fish they can catch. NO wonder the latest successful incarnation of an audio mag is now called both Sound AND Vision. Look for them to include media PCs too as they evolve into their own entertainment format. I know from experience that manufacturers pull equipment when they dont think they will get a favorable review. I know from experience that publishers want manufacturers to submit their equipment for review, in order to avoid legal hassles from unsolicited reviews. I know from experience that what some listeners or reviewers like, others do NOT. Some tweaking audiophiles relish the opportunity to alter or change their music and movie reproduction system themselves. Others do NOT. Some audiophiles thrill to big block amplifiers the way motorheads drool when they lift a Vette or Viper hood. Still others get excited when reviewers worship inner details, while I call those same loudspeakers muted, reserved or dull. The classic Klipsch big old Khorn has been, more or less, in constant production since its inception in 1948 which has got to be some kind of audio industry record. While I do NOT know if Klipsch would provide a current model for a review; I do know that Stereophile could provide a retro look at loudspeaker and amplifier models from yester-year, which still endure today. They certainly have the files for it. Back in April, 9185, for example, the esteemed J. Gordon Holt wrote those old horn-loaded squawkers had an awfully strident and dirty high end, but they reproduced the range from 100Hz to 2kHz with a degree of subjective accuracy not even approached by many of today's most highly esteemed audiophile speakers. Is this still true today? Or have things improved? How do the vaulted Avantgarde Acoustic horns stack up against an audio classic like the Khorn that has been selling for decades? Inquiring minds want to know. I want to know. Considering the rising popularity of flea-powered tube amplifiers, such a retrospective comparison would be a welcome issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBryan Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 Excellent points Mr. Flood. I've had the opportunity to listen to the AG Duos and Trios on several occasions and each time I've come away a little less than impressed. Don't get me wrong, they are very nice speakers and in some respects, beat out the venerable Khorn quite easily. I recently had my amp in the shop and the tech had a pr of Duos and he let me hook it up. The first thing I noticed was how quiet my amp was (noise was the reason I had brought it in). I literally had to put my ear inside the mid horn to hear anything. By comparison, I could hear noise from 10' away using the same amp on the Khorns. The Duos' mids seemed smoother and the highs more detailed and extended. On the other hand, I didn't like the sub at all - very boomy and artificial compared to the Khorn. The Duos also had a more laid back image - much more like cone speakers than the Khorn. It could have been the room or other components but to my ears, the Duos didn't have the coherence of the Khorns as I could easily discern what each driver was putting out - especially the sub. To me, the Duos just didn't convey the music as a single offering but rather in distinct parts. That's the same impression I came away with when I heard the Trios as well and they were being demo'ed in a very large room which allowed plenty of space to mesh the speakers. And speaking of drivers, it should be noted that the speakers feeding the horns are housed in a chamber so the AGs are not exactly horns in the truest sense. I'm sure some folks love them and they have brought many of the uninitiated into the realm of horns but considering the compromises and the price - they're just not my cup of tea. Of course, I've been listening to Klipschorns for so long that I'm surely biased. Have fun, Bryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 >I still marvel that all of us dont drive constantly recycled VWs and Volvos from the 60s. I never get rid of a vehicle with less than 200,000 on it. I drive them till they are scrap, donate them to the church, then take the IRS deduction and spend it on AUDIO GEAR. :-) All I expect from a vehicle is that it perform it's intended task reliably. I lost any auto envy a long time ago. The same is true for my 'horns> >Is this still true today? Or have things improved? How do the vaulted Avantgarde Acoustic horns stack up against a classic that has been selling for decades? Don't know, don't care. My 'horns deliver all the music all the time. As with automobiles, I quit reading speaker reviews years ago. I also don't date, since I have pretty much the perfect wife. Now, as to mags, I did subsribe to S&V. 7 bucks for a year...seemed like a reasonable amount to get a bit of info on video, HT, and other areas of marginal interest. For what I paid and what little I expected, I've been amply rewarded. Hope they DO start reviewing PC audio. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwm Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 "Second, Stereophile is the preeminent authority for objective sonic measurements." You've got to be kidding! I remember a few years ago when they published a frequency response run for the ESL63 and had the HF response down 22db at 20Khz on axis referenced to the midband. That particular speaker sails off into the ultrasonic range quite handily. I can pick other glaring examples of flawed test methodology but those are probably beyond the scope of this discussion. I will look for the published Fq response run on the ESL63 and post it here if anyone is interested. I think they are fine as long they stick to the "subjectivist" method of evaluating equipment, although they do better now on objective testing than they used to. I think one of the most overlooked parameters of subjective listening is "dynamic contrast" and, of course, the Khorns/Heritage excel in this area. The dynamic capability suggests to the listener more of the authority of live music. Anyway, nice group of people here and I really enjoy this board........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 I don't subscribe to any audio mags, but I do pick up a copy every now and then. I guess i'm more of a music fan than an equipement one... but.... I'm surprised there hasn't been more support for $ensible$ound someone mentioned... They seem to have interesting articles/reviews on occasion... Perhaps I should check out Stereophool more often given the number of readers here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 Well, you see, there are these cars we all know so well as 'pimp mobiles'. We know them when we see them. The BIG$$$$$$$$$ so-called 'audiophile' (this word used to actually have something to do with 'a person who is enthusiastic about high-fidelity sound reproduction') gear are the 'pimp mobiles'. The people who sell & buy that stuff are kinda like pimps and their customers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted August 5, 2003 Share Posted August 5, 2003 ---------------- On 8/3/2003 2:01:20 PM greg928s4 wrote: I have a t-shirt that I used to wear 25 years ago that says "I Own Klipsch" on the front, and "Beware of Bose, Distortion Kills" on the back. I got kicked out of my local Bose dealership so many times it was a riot. Greg ---------------- You're crackin' me up Greg. HOW COOL! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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