bkrop Posted September 2, 2003 Share Posted September 2, 2003 Yeah, yeah ,yeah what does this have to do with Cornwalls or carpet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted September 2, 2003 Share Posted September 2, 2003 Deep breath? It's comments like "I would never" that are just what I was talking about. Why would you EVER say I would NEVER own a 3 watt amp? I sure would never say this and I am glad I didnt. And I came from some of the hardest rock backgrounds from the musician take this side of "Mudvayne". I guess this is a little about what I was talking about. I didnt listen to much Sonny Rollins when I was 12 and I never thought I would, but I have just about every record he is on now. I had 200w monoblocks and now my most powerful amp is 14w. Glad I didnt say I would NEVER have under 20w. Glad I didnt say never to just about anything although I did say I would probably never go with solid state full time again. Still, if a good SS amps comes my way, I listen. Craig, for some odd reason, you have been hell bent against SET amps, even when they excel at certain things far above the push pull range. Do you appreciate those things at the moment or apparently have any use for them? Not now. But it's nice to have the various flavors...and even nice to taste the difference in red wine or a beer. I have had people tell me that vintage tube amps are rolled off, slow, non audiophile devices. I am kinda glad I didnt listen there either. Experience brings all sorts of strange twists. Craig, over the last 19 months, I can think of many things you said that were FACT that you surely dont believe now after more experience... Never saying never or ever saying THIS IS THE WAY IT IS sure leaves more doors open. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louis Posted September 2, 2003 Share Posted September 2, 2003 Its always good for somebody else to go to the other side.By the way have you heard bel canto ss amps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted September 2, 2003 Share Posted September 2, 2003 I have heard the Bel Canto DAC more than anything else and this not too long ago while traveling to different junkets (the amps have been playing but no audition). The amps get positive comments as do many of the company products. Have I heard the amps at length enough to pass judgement? No. I dont pay as much attention to solid state as I should, actually. I just have heard quite a few top quality solid state disappoint, though there is always another device or approach around the corner. It appears as if you like them very much. What have you found? kh ps- Running a tube pre into SS is a great compromise. I am doing this at the moment with a little digital amp by a forum member that is interesting. The Bel Canto digital is another story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted September 2, 2003 Share Posted September 2, 2003 I'm not going to proclaim who's right or who's wrong, that Heritage is better than Reference, that RF-7's image better than Cornwalls, or that Tim would be a damn fool for selling them. Tim seems to like the qualities of the RF-7, and to his ears, with his equipment, in their placement, his Cornwalls just don't do it for him anymore. Me, I love my Cornwalls! Their imaging and soundstage are spot on for me in my room with my components playing my favorite music! Kelly may hear my system and laugh in my face, and Dean may hear it and have a Heritage/SS revelation for all we know (highly unlikely, though). As far as I'm concerned, it all depends on your ears and what pleases your senses. Maybe Tim has tired of his Cornwalls...so be it. I'm not going to judge him because he wants to sell them for a pair of Reference loudspeakers. Who am I to tell him to try different placement locations...maybe he hasn't the room and a nearfield placement is just too much for his ears (if there were pictures posted, they're not there now, so I never saw them). Maybe an in-store audition would work for him, maybe not. All I know is if Tim wants to sell his Cornwalls, he'll find a good home for them from other members here on this forum. Then he can purchase the RF-7s and experience musical nirvana all over again! All the advice here is given in good faith; Klipsch forum members are only looking out for your best interests. We want you to ultimately be happy with your system, and as long as you're remaining true to the Klipsch brand, then it doesn't really matter to me if you stay with Heritage or go Reference...at least you're not looking towards Bose...then we'd have to hunt you down and *****-slap you! Good luck with whatever you decide to do! My two cents worth... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted September 2, 2003 Share Posted September 2, 2003 First, he hasnt heard the RF-7 yet. Second, I dont hold any alligence to the Klipsch brand. If I find a better speaker out there, in my price range that floats my boat, be it Klipsch or RL Acoustiques, it will be sitting here, whether made in USA, Canada, Iraq, Cambodia, China, Mexico, or Alabama. WEll, maybe not Alabama. Seriously, you are right in that of course it's his decision (not if I can help it). But lordy, what is the point of the forum if not to share info and opinion, not just "Klipsch and my Buddies" come first brigade. Sadly, I have yet to hear a modern Klipsch speaker I truly love. Then again, I havent heard the RB-5 or the RF-7 either. Next time I am around either, I'll try to give them a listen. Until then, VINTAGE KLIPSCH RULEZ! HAR. Dean0, send your RF-7 for audition. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted September 2, 2003 Share Posted September 2, 2003 Since I've frequented this forum, I've noticed quite a bit of offhand comments, imprecise language, broad generalizations, and other such obstacles to accurate and thoughtful communication. Sometimes, they were contained in my own posts. At times, I think we like to chop out a quick reply. I usually have to, 'cause I've got a 28.8 modem at home, and broadband at work. (I don't post after work, obviously!) It is difficult to flesh out fully formed thoughts in this manner. If there were a group of us in a room, these less than accurate phrases would be understood for what they sometimes are, by non-verbal cues such as facial expressions, tone of voice, gestures (easy, now), etc. I have made it a point to try to keep this in mind while posting. This may or may not apply to Craig's post, but I don't think he's that dogmatic. Then again, I ain't much fer book-larnin', sos I might could be readin' y'all wrong-like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted September 2, 2003 Share Posted September 2, 2003 Mingia, see what I mean, I'm so brain-dead after 11 hours at work, two people post while I'm sitting trying to remember how to actually express a thought. Retail sucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted September 2, 2003 Share Posted September 2, 2003 "This forum is all about making things the same or the inability to be able to distinguish the small, subtle differences opposed to honing in on differences." What is the point in insulting the whole forum? There's no reason for this. Besides, I think you are talking in the extreme here -- it's not really like you say. People can hear the differences in what they are listening too, but some just don't get as wrapped up in analyzing things to the nth degree. To many, it is simply a matter of, "do I like it better, or not"? "This one gives me this, but this one gives me that, this one gives this and that, but also has this other thing I want." Hey Kelly, by the time you get done distinguishing between the subtle differences, you are still left with -- "but what works best for me -- what do I like better". No one here is listening for you -- they are listening for themselves. "...From the blanket statements from the narrow experience to the sweeping conclusions using factors that dont encompass more variables, this is the place." "Encompassing more variables" is expensive. A person could go on forever comparing, evaluating, "distinguishing sublties", etc, etc... I think every individual has an ingrained idea of what sounds "right" to them. Since perfection does not exist, it is best to hone in on a general sound or signature that one finds very pleasing -- and then fine tune. You can only get so close to "perfect". I started hanging out in audio stores in 10th grade, I've earned the right to make "sweeping conclusions" as far as my own personal tastes are concerned. You know, I don't like shirts with vertical stripes. I don't need to check every rack in the store for just that right shirt with the right kind of vertical stripes. "Tube amps are distortion machines. SET amps dont work. Vintage is a accident waiting to happen. Parts are parts. Wire is wire. I don't hear the difference or have never experienced it, thus it doesnt exist. It's been the root of one argument after another. I heard B with A, so B is the best for A,B,C, not to mention D. In addition, B SOUNDS LIKE D, since I heard it with A. You are now bordering on a full blown rant, and I have no idea why. These things that you are saying, I've never heard here. I've heard it said that SET amps are "distortion machines", but not tube amps as a whole -- and I've never heard any of the more experienced here say any of the other things. Hell, even Craig agrees that cables have an impact on the sound. Whether it's tube amps, speakers, amp topologies, etc etc, this is seen again and again. Someone hears an amp they dont like, or with their music, or in THAT room, and the amp is no good. No, but I have heard it said, "there is a better amp for me". Back to the other thing: If someone totes home a set of Heresies, and after setting them up and hearing them, finds them completely marvelous -- can you not imagine them sitting on their couch thinking to themselves, "Man, I have GOT to get me a set of Cornwalls". So, they come to the forum and ask, "Hey, do you think I should upgrade to the Cornwalls or LaScalas?" So of course we all must respond: "Just make sure you get your gear down to XYZ and audition those Cornwalls or LaScalas, cause well, you know -- the Heresy isn't a Cornwall or LaScala -- and you might be disappointed by the subtle differences in timbre and overall presentation." Yeah, right. So, I guess if someone had posted, "Selling RF-7's to buy Cornwalls" -- we can be assured of the same concerns and what not... Personally, I don't care if I'm the only person on the forum that listens to the RF-7's. Oh, and trust me, that big lumberjack will NEVER own a 3 watt amp. Also, whoever said it is right, Craig is very little in person like he is in his posts, I think this might be true for most of us. I know I seem relatively laid back, but as I told Craig recently -- I'm running out of room in my back yard to bury bodies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted September 2, 2003 Share Posted September 2, 2003 Retail does suck. Big time. Lets quit and take a trip abroad! I am feeling quite dogmatic and need a run for the hills. Italy was a teaser. By the way, some good points, even if you werent at work. And ole Craig and I go way back. I put the NOSValves in the NOSValves! Ole Craiger. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted September 2, 2003 Share Posted September 2, 2003 Haven't left yet- about to, laughing at the optical illusions on the way out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted September 2, 2003 Share Posted September 2, 2003 Dean, try to go back through the archives.... No one else really does. Rant nothing. It's the way I feel about this place half the time. And I have earned the right to have a few thoughts about this place, no? People have really short memories. I disagree with most of your post relating to the past of this forum, even coming from your own lips. I cam on here to TONS of anti-Tube blather. Check the archives. Anyway, I dont want to argue. The followers become the leaders become the followers become the agnostics become the naysayers become the leaders become the .... individuals? Regardless, this place is always an amusing ride one way or another. Where is that ole SS Bryston 3B when you need it? heh.. Im going to fire up my 6w Digital dumpling. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted September 2, 2003 Share Posted September 2, 2003 Tim, I'm really sorry I've missed this thread. I think a classic Klipsch 3 way should sound too good to give up. If yours doesn't sound that way, let's get it that way by finding out what's wrong. After it's working correctly, then look at the RF-7. The RF-7 is something else, a 2-way, that Klipsch has agressively worked on for years. I think it is a supurb speaker. But, it can be difficult too. After my run-in with the Chorus-II and parafeed 'dogs I realized this can get very messy and wondered what a non-engineer would do if stuck with a nice 3-way and a nice SET that didn't get along. I'll be happy to work with you to get the Cornwalls and Wrights to get along. I think there are a few things we can try that will tell us if more gains will be worth the effort. With RF-7s, I can do the same. I love the speakers and wouldn't be without them. But the pp amps I have driving them are totally customized for them. The Wrights would have issues with the RF-7s too. You're in audio territory where answers aren't always just trades. What you learn in giving the Cornwalls a chance will apply to the RF-7s. They're both sweethearts. leok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted September 2, 2003 Share Posted September 2, 2003 Excellent, well thought out post, Leo. On a side note, I have had the Wright Sound 3.5 Monos on my own Cornwalls for some extended listening. Although I have to admit I didnt run some heavy duty material through the combo, the pairing was magical and VERY nice. The difference seems to be the room, setup, and perhaps the year of the CW although I certainly dont know how much this is affecting it. The only CW I have heard with the Wright 2A3 Monos have been the 76 and 77 vintage with Alnico and Type B crossovers with oils. My friend was so impressed with this combo, he went out and bought the second most expensive pair I have seen on ebay, followed by a pair of Wright Sound 3.5 Monos. I dont think the Wright 2A3 love to be pushed into class A1 which is a difference between this SET and a host of others. It has a sliding bias scheme. My buddy with the 76 CW and Wright 2A3 and 6SN7 Pre listens to classic jazz and some rock but loves the low level listening / detail / resolution late at night. AGain, nice post, Leo. kh ps- For those that dont know, I am currently using Leo's very own Tripath digital amp while without my 2A3 amps. See my SYSTEM page below for a pic and details under the "Alternate Gear" link. OR SEE BELOW.... One note on this amp, it sounds better pushed by a tube pre. And it doesnt clip near as gracefully as a good SET. But within its limits, it a VERY nice alternative and worth a look. Well done, Leo and thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted September 2, 2003 Share Posted September 2, 2003 By the way, some good points, even if you werent at work. And ole Craig and I go way back. I put the NOSValves in the NOSValves! Are you trying to take credit for my Idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted September 2, 2003 Share Posted September 2, 2003 Nope, it's all you, Chief. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Disc Posted September 2, 2003 Author Share Posted September 2, 2003 Leo... Welcome to the discussion (Party), glad you can finally chime in. Good ideas on how to proceed. What I will do then, is keep the Cornwalls. I will find a good deal on some RF-7s, probably sooner than later. I can work with the people in the forum as you suggested to improve both Cornwall and RF-7 and see which will suit the desired goal. I can always relegate one of the pair to Home Theater use. If anyone is going to be making suggestions. it's important for them to understand which setups I listen to and when.. I listen to the Wrights > RB-5s about 90% of the time with low to medium volumes and I'm 100% happy with this. All types of music. I listen to the Wright > Cornwalls 10% of the time when I want more power and higher volumes. Typically this will be Classical symponies, 1812 etc. I am only about 75% happy with this setup for the following two reasons 1. The Wrights can't drive the Cornwalls and handle the higher volumes. (I never expected it to) 2. The Cornwalls (either by fault of their own, or perhaps amplification) just don't hold articulation, definition and focus. I think they are fine at lower volumes, but I rarely listen to them there. I believe to solve problem 1, I will need to have different amplification. Since this amplification will most likely be playing higher levels, and classical types, I probably need amps that will have more headroom. I don't feel SET is the solution here, at least not a cost effective one. I am thinking the Monarchy SM-70 Pros will fit the bill here? Solving problem one, could actually solve problem two. Since problem one will always exist with the Wrights and Cornwalls, I can either do one of two things. Switch the Cornwalls for the Rf-7s, which are more efficient, or two, get more amplification with more headroom and see if it solves problem 2? Getting RF-7s, could also solve one and two because they are more efficient than the Cornwalls. What say ye. tb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted September 2, 2003 Share Posted September 2, 2003 Are the Cornwalls still for sale, and do you have more pics too??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted September 2, 2003 Share Posted September 2, 2003 I've heard the RF7's are in all reality are no more effieceint then the Cornwall's . Not sure if this is true but I though it was something that should be mentioned. Now let the RF7 masters answer the statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Disc Posted September 2, 2003 Author Share Posted September 2, 2003 Sale is canceled for the time being. >Are the Cornwalls still for sale, and do you have more pics too??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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