Analog sounding CD player

[PKuziel]

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On 10/7/2003 9:22:48 AM paulparrot wrote:

Tim is, of course, right. Nothing beats an audition, and nothing beats an audition in your own home where you are familiar with all the other components and the room sound.

When I hear the word "analog" I don't think of vinyl, I think of open reel. I just so happen to be playing "Bach: The Art of Fugue" on SACD right now. This is a Mark Levinson recording originally made at 30 inches per second on open reel tape. Levinson is what some people would call a nut on hating digital. He despises CD and PCM, and loves vinyl, tape, and SACD. He is adamant that there has never been a better format than SACD. He says giving someone an SACD of his recordings is like giving him a copy of his 30 IPS master tape.

For more of his thoughts, go to

http://redrosemusic.com/essay.shtml

I think his firm just went bankrupt?

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Actually Red Rose equipment is still be manufactured but I dont think it compares to his previous company "Cello", after all he just bought a competitor and rebadged the equipment with the Red Rose Label, I used to do some minor engraving on Red Rose but they decided on a cheaper alternative and most of the engraving on "Cello" his previous Audio company. I have met and talked with Mark a few times and you are correct. He is a nut job in some respects and one never knows what Mark likes or dislikes. Ever read his book he put out with now ex wife Kim Cattrall? I have heard that he thinks the market for high end audio is dead ( Tell that to Viola Audio Laboratories). But back to the topic at hand, SACD is the way to go IMHO. Mark has done some wonderful jazz recordings on SACD and is a good listen.

[No Disc]

SACD is a better format than CD, thats a given. I'm not sure however that the question was SACD vs CD? Was it??

Perhaps Tom has an extensive CD collection that he would like to enjoy again?

The only SACD player I'm aware of that has gotten rave reivews for both it's SACD and Redbook playback is the MF Tri-Vista player. If Tom can afford $5000 to spend, that would be a nice choice. If he is only after excellent Redbook CD playback, then a high-end CD unit would be a wise choice.

My $.02 anyway.

Tim

[Parrot]

Tim,

Every thread in the Forum winds up a little off topic. Transformer discussion turns into California Recall discussion.

My point was that one shouldn't limit oneself to CD, when SACD is, as you know, easily superior and when all SACD players play CDs. I'd be more than happy to listen to CDs on your Sony 777ES.

Especially when paying out a decent sum for a high-end CD player, the question is why bother? It'd be like asking, what is the best $500 particle-board bookcase I can buy?

[Deang]

"The only SACD player I'm aware of that has gotten rave reivews for both it's SACD and Redbook playback is the MF Tri-Vista player."

Tim, does your Sony have the switchable digital filter feature like my 9000es? This feature gives two very different sounds. Most prefer the slow rolloff setting, and I have yet to hear a CD that I preferred on the "sharp" setting.

Personally, I'm looking for a vinyl rig that sounds like digital.

[wireless]

I would echo what the first responder said: that is, the rega and the tjoeb are the best.

A friend just bought a tjoeb off audiogon for about $500 and it is amazing.

I've got a pretty good two-channel rig at home but now it bothers me a bit to listen to after hearing the toejb.

The best way I can think of to describe it is all the instruments sound like they're in the right place. This sounds like an odd statement but that's how it struck me.

It sounds like you're sitting in front of the stage. Now, with other CD players, to me it sounds like the instruments are all over the place.

By this, I mean they sound jumbled like they aren't a nice ensemble but are disjointed and not in what would be their normal physical locations.

I could sit here and say "veil upon veil was lifted" but a more accurate description would be that the music just sounds right on the tjoeb.

I would listen to the planet too. You can't go wrong with either.

BTW, my friend just bought the $300 upsampler for the tjoeb. I haven't heard it yet but he said it sounds even better. Hard to imagine that but that's what he claims.

-David

[No Disc]

Dean, Not sure about the filters. I do believe the 777 has them. Would you believe I have yet to play a CD on the Sony? That's how much I like the Cary 308 for Redbook.

Personally, I'm looking for a vinyl rig that sounds like digital.

I think that VW Van player might do the trick for you.

Tim

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On 10/7/2003 1:04:00 PM DeanG wrote:

Tim, does your Sony have the switchable digital filter feature like my 9000es? This feature gives two very different sounds. Most prefer the slow rolloff setting, and I have yet to hear a CD that I preferred on the "sharp" setting.

Personally, I'm looking for a vinyl rig that sounds like digital.

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[Tom Mobley]

Well, Ive never been into expensive high-end stereo gear but I don't mind saying this: My 222-C/Planet/LaScala is the nicest sounding system I've ever spent any real time with. It wasn't that way till the Planet showed up, tho. detail without edginess, bass without boom, imaging without phony "stereo" effects, vocals to die for. $300 with box, remote and manual, cherry condition, off Audiogon. I think you'd spend close to 10 times that much to get anything noticeable better. If money is not an issue for you then go ahead and pop for the bux up stuff.

Tom

[Allan Songer]

I own FOUR CD players that all get listened to at least once in a while. In my main system is the BAT VK-D5. In my second system is one of the original AH! modified cheap-o Marantz players. In my wife's office system is an original Rega Planet. And finally, in my garage is an ancient Kyocera from the early 1980's. I have listened to all of these players in my main system and I would rank them as follows:

1. BAT VK-D5. This is what audiophiles call a "dark" sounding player--very solid bottom end, warm, lush midrange with a somewhat "congested" upper register. I love it--the midrage is SOOOO prefect I can live with the faults. It's not vinyl, but it's DAMN good.

2. Rega Planet. Unlike the BAT and the AH!, there are no vacuum tubes in this player, but it sounds more "tubey" than either one. This is a VERY nice player that is very balanced from top to bottom and is one I could live with forever if I didn't already have the BAT.

It's hooked up to an old Fisher 500C and a pair of KEF 102s.

3. AH! Tjoeb. This is a real piece of crap CD player that with some tweaking ends up sounding pretty nice. I bought mine back in 1998 before they were officially imported here. For $399 it was a nice deal, but the REGA is better in every single way that matters.

4. Kyocera. This was a big-buck player in the early 80's. Sounds like crap.

[No Disc]

Tom,

Actually it is more like 2.6 times more. Cary 308s can be had for $800 used. Noticeably better IMHO and having HDCD decoding as well.

Is the Rega Planet good? Yes, dam good for $300-$400.

I got my Cary 308 for $1000. Did I find the Cary was worth $700 more than the Rega.... Well, I don't have the Rega anymore. Believe me, I was hoping I would not hear that much of a difference... but unfortunately I did.

I really enjoy having the HDCD decoding too. CDs with HDCD encoding sound fantastic.

Tim

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On 10/7/2003 4:57:56 PM Tom Mobley wrote:

Well, Ive never been into expensive high-end stereo gear but I don't mind saying this: My 222-C/Planet/LaScala is the nicest sounding system I've ever spent any real time with. It wasn't that way till the Planet showed up, tho. detail without edginess, bass without boom, imaging without phony "stereo" effects, vocals to die for. $300 with box, remote and manual, cherry condition, off Audiogon. I think you'd spend close to 10 times that much to get anything noticeable better. If money is not an issue for you then go ahead and pop for the bux up stuff.

Tom

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[dubai2000]

And don't overlook the MCD 7007 by McIntosh. It has a very reliable transport and sounds to my ears quite 'musical'(i.e. no digital harshness, nice reproduction of timbres and good soundstaging). In my system it replaced a Teac VRDS 25 used together with a tube DAC. Good and transparent as that combination was, I found the Mc more natural.

Wolfram

[AnalOg]

I appreciate all the feedback you guys threw at me on this thread, I think I've narrowed my search down to the Wadia line. If anyone has any first hand input on there players feel free to put in your input.

If and when I receive one I will keep you all posted on its performance.

Thankx,

Tom

[No Disc]

Tom,

The Wadia's are well made. All have issues with the remote having to be almost right on the unit before working. A close friend of mine just got a 850 used and likes it alot. We havn't compared my Cary to his Wadia just yet but my guess is they are close in performace except when the CDs are HDCD encoded, then the Cary has the advantage.

Good luck.

Tim

[mobile homeless]

I was impressed with the Wadia 850. Yet, to show how different our opinions are, this was what I was comparing with the Rega Planet and various Arcam models (8,8se, 9). I bought the Rega Planet based on these comparisons, price wise.

On the other hand, as Tim mentions, other quality cd playback is coming down. I surely have not seen the Cary at 800 but if it is, that is a good buy. For sure, it's not the 300 of a Planet. But I really hesitate to pay much more these days due to the changing format. The Planet is excellent and more analog sounding then the Musical Fidelity; instead, I toss my ducats into analog upgrades for now.

On another note, Guy just sold a upper end Wadia so he can weigh in here. I ultimately thought the Planet actually had more "soul" than the Wadia. While this word means little to most, and even less to the "accuracy" brigade, it was an important caveat to me and much of the reason WHY I also prefer the Linn LP-12 to other TT offerings.

kh

[Guy Landau]

The Wadia is nice but overpriced. I've just sold my 861 because I felt that it wasn't much better than my previous Burmester 939 or Theta/Apogee setup.

The Bow Technology ZZ-8 is one of my all time favorite players. I think that even today's top players will be having a hard time, trying to beat its musicality and smoothness.

[No Disc]

Guy - Good point.

Taking into account the higher prices of the Wadias, I'd have to say the Carys are the better deal. However if Tom is looking in that price range, other CD brands/models come into mind.

FYI: There are two Cary 308s on Audiogon now for between $800-$1000. A steal if you ask me.

Again, I think anyone spending these kind of dollars needs to audition them in there own system. I took a leap of faith on my purchase, but I did side-by-side compare the Cary to the Rega over several weeks before making my final desicion on which one to keep.

- Tim

[mobile homeless]

I would think the Cary to be more detailed and slightly more airy than the Rega. But if it took you several weeks to decide, that is pretty close. Still, I paid HALF what you did for my Rega Planet and I could STILL SELL it for about $40 less than I paid for it used back in 98! That's pretty amazing for digital. The Rega is an 18bit machine that holds its own with newer technology due to design and implemenation. The goons at BURR-BROWN actually FLEW to England to see how the guys at Rega had come up with such an excellent sounding implementation from their chip. That's a well-known story.

Still, I imagine the Cary is probably more of a good thing perhaps. PErhaps not. The Rega does SO much for SO little, and is such a joy to use, I find it hard to replace. I do plan on hearing the Cary and other options again next time in the Triangle area of NC.

kh

[No Disc]

The Cary is more detailed, less dark and much more airy. Bass extention is better and more defined. The Cary brings out subtle detail where on the Rega it gets lost in the mix.

You find the Rega hard to replace, but I don't belive you have been looking to relace it either. Complacency is a fine thing. For me, I wanted more.

And for the record. It didn't take me weeks to decide. I listened to the Cary when I first got it. It sucked, It needed to be broken in. I ran the Cary for 1 week straight without listening to it. It was very apparent after that which one was better. It was not close. Goodbye Rega, Hello Cary.

Rega is hard to beat in the under $400 price range, but in the $1000 price range, my feeling is that there are better units available now. Perhaps not when Kelly was originally comparing/looking, but certainly today.

Tim

[louis]

I HAVE TUBE JOLIDA 100 TUBE CD PLAYER SOUNDS GREAT BUT I WOULD LOOK AT REGA JUPITER 2000 IT HAS SEPERATE DAC FOR EACH CHANNEL ARROUND $1100 USED

[No Disc]

Is your CAPS LOCK stuck?

- tb

[coda]

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On 10/7/2003 5:28:52 PM Allan Songer wrote:

I own FOUR CD players that all get listened to at least once in a while. In my main system is the BAT VK-D5. In my second system is one of the original AH! modified cheap-o Marantz players. In my wife's office system is an original Rega Planet. And finally, in my garage is an ancient Kyocera from the early 1980's. I have listened to all of these players in my main system and I would rank them as follows:

1. BAT VK-D5. This is what audiophiles call a "dark" sounding player--very solid bottom end, warm, lush midrange with a somewhat "congested" upper register. I love it--the midrage is SOOOO prefect I can live with the faults. It's not vinyl, but it's DAMN good.

2. Rega Planet. Unlike the BAT and the AH!, there are no vacuum tubes in this player, but it sounds more "tubey" than either one. This is a VERY nice player that is very balanced from top to bottom and is one I could live with forever if I didn't already have the BAT.

It's hooked up to an old Fisher 500C and a pair of KEF 102s.

3. AH! Tjoeb. This is a real piece of crap CD player that with some tweaking ends up sounding pretty nice. I bought mine back in 1998 before they were officially imported here. For $399 it was a nice deal, but the REGA is better in every single way that matters.

4. Kyocera. This was a big-buck player in the early 80's. Sounds like crap.

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Hey Allan, have sampled Kelly's Planet on several occasions and would gladly swap out the Tjoeb 99 for a period, there's a correctness to the playback that becomes apparent, however there's something special with the lowly Tjoeb 99 once it's warmed up for a few hours, especially with soundstaging and overall smoothness with detail retrieval, that it seems worth mentioning. Curious to know what Herman had under the hood in the Tjoeb 98, the upgraded 99 version got truly infamous with AC noise killers, SuperCrystal hype and all. Did find adjusting the factory-set 3.5V output downwards to the 2.0 - 2.5 range made a BIG difference, especially after audibly noting the gain difference in side-by-side comparisons with the Rega. Still, have yet to find a more involving CDP that literally draws me into the music, including a handful of SACD players I've tried. Would have upgraded to something else a long time ago if it sounded as effortless, though the BAT has now perked my interest.