coda Posted October 12, 2003 Share Posted October 12, 2003 To be fair, these external box solutions do seem to have a following, the Anna Log and Francisco Duran reviews were interesting and reminiscent of past Z-Man Audio Signal Enhancer and Sam Telling X10-D reviews. Aside from compatibility issues (they seem to work better in certain CDPs and systems) as well as the extra pair of interconnects, it crosses the mind that when they do work well why not integrate these features directly into the CDP itself. That seems to have been Herman's logic when he came out with the Tjoeb, and what the growing cottage industry is aiming to do for SACD. Hopefully rf3iicrazy will post some ongoing comments on his experiences, sharing an Tjo-Upsampler review which I don't believe is on Kevin's site and will be interested to hear further feedback. If anyone is compelled to try an ADE-24, there is one on Audiogon for $99. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisK Posted October 12, 2003 Share Posted October 12, 2003 ---------------- On 10/12/2003 9:49:54 AM Are Friends Electric wrote: ...If anyone is compelled to try an ADE-24, there is one on Audiogon for $99. ---------------- Just out of curiosity, did anyone catch the ID of the seller? "Tubeshornssnakeoil"? I'm guessing it's tounge-in-cheek. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted October 12, 2003 Share Posted October 12, 2003 I have an ADE-24 sitting here. IT is not the latest version which does have some improved parts. I found it slightly more dynamic but ultimately added too much to the noise floor. It adds yet another pair of interconnects and more circuitry. I might be more inclined to go there if a tube circuit but still believe that a better CD player is more the option. Make sure you ask for the year made on the Audiogon purchase. I tried the ADE-24 in my main system with Planet and Moondogs as well as a small system approach to see what it could bring from a lowly Aiwa 1-Bit portable going into my EICO HF-81. Even though it did bring some improvement and some perceived gain in dynamics, I ultimately preferred it out of the circuit as I felt it added too much of it's own sound to the system. It's really a buffer stage and DOES bring some more dynamics to the show. On the other hand, if you have a HIGHLY resolving system, it might not be tranparent enough; I found this notable in the SET system. For sure, if going that route, I would get a later model. The Musical Fidelity X10D tube buffer stage was an interesting solution as well...and somethjing ole TAddeo wont admit he had (or still has?) running with that ole Tjoeb player! heh.... I heard this buffer stage and thought it well done...but ultimately, once again Pt II, would opt for a better CDP. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coda Posted October 12, 2003 Share Posted October 12, 2003 ---------------- On 10/12/2003 10:01:17 AM mobile homeless wrote: The Musical Fidelity XD10 tube buffer stage was an interesting solution as well...and somethjing ole TAddeo wont admit he has running with that ole Tjoeb player! heh.... I heard this buffer stage and thought it well done...but ultimately, once again Pt II, would opt for a better CDP. ---------------- Wrote Herman in '99 about how the X-10D seemed to make a good Tjoeb thing better, he agreed, it does benefit with use of a power conditioner, however it's been out of production for a while now, on the home front it's in and out of the SET system. Am convinced Sam Tellig's take on this contributed in part to Herman's initial Marantz inspiration. Forgot you had that ADE-24! "Being there" comments were echoed in Paul Knutson's review, I did feel that in my single-ended triode, tube-based home reference system, which is highly revealing, the ADE-24 imparted a mild sense of "being there". In other words, beyond the changes in tonality and soundstage perspective, I could tell from a resolution of detail standpoint that the ADE-24 was in the circuit. It sounded like a slight obfuscation of detail, an extremely minor rounding of certain percussive strikes for instance. I should emphasize, however, that this wasn't a big deal, but the audio reviewer in me is compelled to point it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manuel Delaflor Posted October 12, 2003 Share Posted October 12, 2003 Mobile Indeed, you mention is not the latest version and is true. But the important point here, imo, is that "it adds its sound". You didn't liked the effect, but I find it incredible rewarding, I can't listen to my system without the ADE-24 "added sound". It cuts out the harshness of CD, and it adds some "warm" (maybe harmonics?) just like some SET systems. But most important, it gives more "body" to the intruments, and adds some kind of "focusing" in the spatial location of instruments and voices, the mid range feels more full and detailed. I guess the little ADE can do wonders for some systems but not all of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coda Posted October 14, 2003 Share Posted October 14, 2003 New Sony digital audio format Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnalOg Posted October 16, 2003 Author Share Posted October 16, 2003 ---------------- On 10/10/2003 9:34:42 AM rf3iicrazy wrote: I've made my decision and put my order in yesterday morning. I ordered the Tjoeb from Upscale along with the Amperex 7308's & the upsampler. The decision to go with this player was 24/192khz dac & tube output. The Dac upsampling rate at this price for the player is a very attractive buy & worth a try. The return policy of lossing 10% for restocking was attractive so I figured if I dont like it I lose 130 bucks. My goal is to get as close to analog as possible. Which means I need to take the edginess out of the sound. Get some added warmth & richness in the tone of that digital signal and I'll be there. I know sounds easier than it is possible, but I'm having fun in the process getting there. I know I took a full turn from the Wadia preference, but damn those units are pricey. I figure I will work my way up the ladder till I find my preference. On the other hand vinyl floats my boat all the way to audio nirvana. Tom ---------------- IT'S HERE. I've installed the upsampler, Amperex 7308, which by the way Craig, it's the USA versions that have the seams on the top. thats what I gots, and the upgraded shoes. I didn't want to do the stock thing then add the upgrades, as I just am not in the mood for comparisons. I want to know what this unit offers at its best. I'l keep all that are interested posted, and let you know if my quest for anolog sound from a CDP is feisable with this unit. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 Amperex 7308, which by the way Craig, it's the USA versions that have the seams on the top Did you catch that Dean !! Great when you ripped by someone huh !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 Cool, eh? Enjoy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coda Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 Quick f/u for Tim, an unplanned opportunity came up to audition one more SCD-777ES, 3rd time the charm as this one turned out to be a different beast altogether, before really only had a weekend to audition, 5 days with continuous power with current unit, viva la difference. Mellow and almost laid back, quite enjoyable at this point, offered at a good price so looks like a keeper. Perhaps the first units auditioned were defective, who knows at this point, hope to avoid eating crow with this one. Checking out a few mod possibilities in the meantime, including the Reference Audio Mods link as it's been updated since the Positive Feedback article was published. Note to Tom: leave your new Tjoeb continuously on. Don't worry about the tubes (like I used to). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnalOg Posted October 22, 2003 Author Share Posted October 22, 2003 ---------------- On 10/22/2003 10:24:55 AM Are Friends Electric wrote: Quick f/u for Tim, an unplanned opportunity came up to audition one more SCD-777ES, 3rd time the charm as this one turned out to be a different beast altogether, before really only had a weekend to audition, 5 days with continuous power with current unit, viva la difference. Mellow and almost laid back, quite enjoyable at this point, offered at a good price so looks like a keeper. Perhaps the first units auditioned were defective, who knows at this point, hope to avoid eating crow with this one. Checking out a few mod possibilities in the meantime, including the Reference Audio Mods link as it's been updated since the Positive Feedback article was published. Note to Tom: leave your new Tjoeb continuously on. Don't worry about the tubes (like I used to). ---------------- Did your Tjoeb have the Upsampler? At the moment I'm a/b ing it to a Roksan player I got on loan from my freindly neighborhood hi fi shop. The Tjoeb is beating this unit out hands down in tonality, musicality & bloom to the music. It holds so many characteristics that I'm so fond of in my analog system that I'm actually enjoying listening to cd's. Tom Edit: I should add that the Roksan comes in at $500.00 more than I paid for the Tjoeb with all the bells and whistles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coda Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 My '99 Tjoeb doesn't allow the upsampler option. Is the upsampler component easy to remove to do A/B comparisons in your unit? I'd be curious to hear if there is a noticeable difference with and without. The 777ES CD playback is mediocre, so the Tjoeb here will remain as my main reference. btw, A/B comparisons between 777ES SACD versus Tjoeb CD on similar titles have been very interesting, ultimately there seems to be a ceiling to high resolution capability in the Tjoeb, but it's still very enjoyable and involving. Since there may be real differences in the recording process between the two formats, it may be impossible to do a true A/B, but what I've heard so far certainly confirms the CD format is alive and well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnalOg Posted October 22, 2003 Author Share Posted October 22, 2003 ---------------- On 10/22/2003 11:10:09 AM Are Friends Electric wrote: My '99 Tjoeb doesn't allow the upsampler option. Is the upsampler component easy to remove to do A/B comparisons in your unit? I'd be curious to hear if there is a noticeable difference with and without. The 777ES CD playback is mediocre, so the Tjoeb here will remain as my main reference. btw, A/B comparisons between 777ES SACD versus Tjoeb CD on similar titles have been very interesting, ultimately there seems to be a ceiling to high resolution capability in the Tjoeb, but it's still very enjoyable and involving. Since there may be real differences in the recording process between the two formats, it may be impossible to do a true A/B, but what I've heard so far certainly confirms the CD format is alive and well. ---------------- I have not done the A/B ing with the upsampler as of yet, I will when I go back inside for dynamating, leaving the cover loose. My suspicion is that there will be a noticeable difference. When comparing to these other players I have in house, the tube output warmth & bloom along with the resolution that the upsampler brings to the table is what sets this unit apart from the others. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wireless Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 ---------------- On 10/22/2003 11:10:09 AM Are Friends Electric wrote: btw, A/B comparisons between 777ES SACD versus Tjoeb CD on similar titles have been very interesting, ultimately there seems to be a ceiling to high resolution capability in the Tjoeb, but it's still very enjoyable and involving. ---------------- Isn't the ceiling on high-resolution capability on the Tjoeb more a function of it using tubes? Tubes roll off the highs giving tube equipment the coveted "warmth" that is always mentioned and in this case the ceiling on highs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 ---------------- On 10/22/2003 12:49:13 PM wireless wrote: Isn't the ceiling on high-resolution capability on the Tjoeb more a function of it using tubes? Tubes roll off the highs giving tube equipment the coveted "warmth" that is always mentioned and in this case the ceiling on highs. ---------------- Badly designed tube circuit roll off the highs. Good designs don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnalOg Posted October 22, 2003 Author Share Posted October 22, 2003 ---------------- On 10/22/2003 12:49:13 PM wireless wrote: ---------------- On 10/22/2003 11:10:09 AM Are Friends Electric wrote: btw, A/B comparisons between 777ES SACD versus Tjoeb CD on similar titles have been very interesting, ultimately there seems to be a ceiling to high resolution capability in the Tjoeb, but it's still very enjoyable and involving. ---------------- Isn't the ceiling on high-resolution capability on the Tjoeb more a function of it using tubes? Tubes roll off the highs giving tube equipment the coveted "warmth" that is always mentioned and in this case the ceiling on highs. ---------------- My interpretation of resolution may be different then yours. When saying resolution, I look at in terms of what high resolution does visually, i.e. sharper picture able to see details better. Associate this with audio and that is what added resolution means to me. It's easier to hear then explain the difference, but the highs are not rolled off as you would percieve it. They are NOT thin sounding, they take on a heavier weight if you will. A cymbal for instance on the Tjoeb sounds closer to live do to the weight & texture of the sound over the other players I'm A/B ing it to. It sounds less digitized & stealy, making for a more musical presentation. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wireless Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 My interpretation of resolution may be different then yours. <...> A cymbal for instance on the Tjoeb sounds closer to live do to the weight & texture of the sound over the other players I'm A/B ing it to. It sounds less digitized & stealy, making for a more musical presentation. Tom ---------------- I agree. The Tjoeb sounds great. I guess my interpretation of "ceiling" was different from yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coda Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 ---------------- On 10/22/2003 12:49:13 PM wireless wrote: Isn't the ceiling on high-resolution capability on the Tjoeb more a function of it using tubes? Tubes roll off the highs giving tube equipment the coveted "warmth" that is always mentioned and in this case the ceiling on highs. ---------------- The detail retrieval coupled with tube output is probably what makes the Tjoeb so involving, it's very smooth, very revealing. When flaws (or limitations) in the CD are revealed, that point of resolution is referred to as a "ceiling" in my earlier post. The SACD format seems to allow a player to dig a little deeper before the details resolve into something other than musical. Happy anyway SACD is performing as touted, my ears are still adjusting however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 You know what cracks me up? When someone can hear the difference between assorted turntable mats, various stereo stands, and whether an indicator light is on or off on his CD player, and then says that the difference between CD and SACD is no big deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted October 22, 2003 Share Posted October 22, 2003 LOL but the green pen make more differnece than all those items COMBINED! tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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