Painful Reality Posted October 16, 2003 Share Posted October 16, 2003 The first and last links are interesting. The PDF thesis is er... special and I'm not sure what to think. I don't really believe in science objectivity for 99% of the thesis out there. It's human nature to want to prove a point, no matter how. For sure you may find most of your "this and this gives that" answers in the third link. I forgot to add this one, which I find really interesting. Other interesting stuff hopefully out of the 10% left of misconceptions in the rest of the world Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 What a lovely thread. I do admit that "hearing rectification and amp manufacturer" post of mine was a bit annoying even given truth. Hell, I would have been annoyed at the idiot that said as much. The God and McDonalds comment? Well, I dont think people like the unknown and will do anything to explain it in a solution that could easily be folded up in a wallet. God of any kind is a great and comprehensive option that covers about everything, and if not, it will be invented. We only have to look to our fine leaders for this evidence, such as the latest from our deputy undersecretary of defense, ole Lt. Gen. Boykin, who claims bin Laden is not our REAL enemy, it's SATAN. Ok, I am jumping a bit here... but I had to read that article several times to FULLY take it in, and it's still ringing within my skull. MY apologies. There are a lot of things I find ironic about this thread given history but these things have a way of bearing fruit later on anyway. Why mention it directly when it becomes self evident? I dont have quite as negative view of manufacturers per say. Some are better than others. Some are better at saying what they mean and meaning what they say. For the most part, given a few exceptions, I have found them willing to help and assist without resorting to attempting to pull ye olde wool over the eyes. Frankly, in my view, many people do a better job of pulling the wool OVER THEIR OWN eyes. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted October 17, 2003 Author Share Posted October 17, 2003 "What a lovely thread. I do admit that "hearing rectification and amp manufacturer" post of mine was a bit annoying even given truth. Hell, I would have been annoyed at the idiot that said as much." I just couldn't resist the jab. I was hoping you'd take it in stride, and maybe get a good laugh as well. "There are a lot of things I find ironic about this thread given history but these things have a way of bearing fruit later on anyway. Why mention it directly when it become self evident?" I'm not sure what you are saying here. Would you mind elaborating? "I dont have quite as negative view of manufacturers per say. Some are better than others. Some are better at saying what they mean and meaning what they say. For the most part, given a few exceptions, I have found them willing to help and assist without resorting to attempting to pull ye olde wool over the eyes.... I think I can probably agree with this. However, in my experience with talking to manufacturers to date -- the only person I have implicit trust for is Mike Sanders. Of course, I like Dennis too, but the last time I talked to him, I hung up the phone wondering. "...Frankly, in my view, many people do a better job of pulling the wool OVER THEIR OWN eyes." Most people are really just trying to understand, and they are at the mercy of those who design and produce the products. Then there are the Reviewers they look to for confirmation one way or the other. It's perfectly natural to second guess ones own choices, and to look to someone of authority on the subject for information. I think most people do try to make informed choices. The information however, has to be trustworthy. Since much of everything sounds so good, although different -- I don't think it's so much the getting wool off the eyes, but out of the ears. People in this hobby need to be taught what to listen for. "The God and McDonalds comment? Well, I dont think people like the unknown and will do anything to explain it." Actually, most "religious" people I know embrace the unknown, and are so consumed with it that they simply won't accept canned and superficial answers. If one's only exposure to The Faith are televangelists, CNN, and newspapers -- then one knows very little about the process of becoming "religious", or what a "religious" person really thinks. I can explain Biblical concepts in such a way that a 5 year old can understand -- but it sure isn't the way I understand it. Most people make the mistake of thinking religionists all think like 5 year olds. My personal "process" for example, started with Ufology, Cryptozoology, and Metaphysics. The idea that there are things that transcend the physical limits of reality. Certainly most don't get here the way I did, but the individual processes are just as bizarre in there own right. Atheism, evolution, humanism, etc. -- are much simpler to use as a catch all "explanation". You only have to deal with one side of the coin -- the physical. The various sciences are used to explain how things work, and one need not necessarily concern themself with the question of "why". It doesn't matter what one believes. Throw "why" into the equation and you have to turn the coin over. Last night my son was asking me about "the dark ages" and why so many people were killed. He asked about the Puritans and why they burned people at the stake. I had to admit the truth -- that people who believe in God can get easily confused. That the Bible reveals many aspects of God's character, and if one magnifies a single element -- terrible things can happen. I told him if one magnifies His desire for justice and judgement, then there is no mercy, and people live in fear. I told him that people live and wrestle with all kind of problems, but we are here to help them, that God wants to help them -- not hurt them. We talked for an hour. Someday he will ask me about the Hittites, Amorites, and Philistines -- and why God had no mercy on them. He will ask me about pain and suffering, and why God doesn't do anything about it. The questions will come. There is nothing simple about any of it. "God of any kind is a great and comprehensive way that covers about everything, and if not, it will be invented." I agree with former, but the latter begs the question: Why bother introducing the hassle of it all if you don't have to. At any rate, if one looks at "invention" more in the context of "discovery" -- then one should be able to accept the possibilty that the "God concept" is not a fictitious fabrication, but an element of reality. "We only have to look to our fine leaders for this evidence, such as the latest from our deputy undersecretary of defense, ole Lt. Gen. Boykin, who claims bin Laden is not our REAL enemy, it's SATAN. Ok, I am jumping a bit here... but I had to read that article several times to FULLY take it in, and it's still ringing within my skull. MY apologies." Well, I agree with him. The Devil is part of the belief system, and we do believe in spiritual opposition. However, this does not absolve us from the responsibility of dealing with the resultant effects on the material and physical level. I'll spare you the ten pages it would take me to explain this character. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkrop Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 That's all well and good but what does that have to do with a Canary CA-301 Mk II? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnalOg Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 "Since much of everything sounds so good, although different -- I don't think it's so much the getting wool off the eyes, but out of the ears. People in this hobby need to be taught what to listen for." I'm all ears, start teaching. Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Dean, Excellent post! It may be the most lucid writing I've seen from you. I work at a small Presbyterian college, and wish the students could begin to understand what you have said here. To toss some gas onto the fire, my wife and I converted from being very reformed Protestants to being very strong Catholics. This is all hard work. What some would call a simple Gospel, is not so simple. The more you begin to understand, the less you know. Just like our understanding of tube amps or speaker tweaks. The idea is very simple, but the more you work with it, the harder it gets (or at least more interesting). Thaks again. I'm keeping a copy of this one. Marvel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Dean's post requires WAY too much time and energy to respond for me today. But I copied it and might try this weekend. It covered a lot of ground and deserves a response, especially the idea of the spiritual vs physical side, perhaps the most interesting part of the post. Marvel says, "my wife and I converted from being very reformed Protestants to being very strong Catholics. Very strong Catholics? Interesting time to join the Catholic sect. I was raised a VERY loose, liberal, and relaxed Episcopalian yet went to Catholic School the first six grades (best school in the area). As I have gotten older, and read more (concentration of English and Philosophy at University), I have moved further and further away from Religion as ANY kind of answer to existence or meaning of life. To tell you the truth, I cant even bear to attend funerals and weddings that are religion based as watching it reminds me of sitting in a time capsule looking at the equivalent of a man "letting blood" to cure an illness. While I agree that some of the tenets of religion have goodness, the entire explanation feels like looking at something that is archaic and almost akin to looking for guidance from the "Moondogs". On the other hand, I very much appreciate the "community aspect" of religion at its best as observed in your local community. I actually think the American Indian was far more advanced spiritually in all ways. In my view, the more peaceful North American Indian would have been a FAR better role model than 99% of all the practicing Christians. They sure did have a better appreciation of the melding of earth and spiritual. I dig the dancing too.... Too bad us tolerant Christians murdered most of the lot. I do have a special place in my heart for ole St. Francis of Assisi but then it gets more tough. Ok, I am going on three days with about 6 hours of sleep total. I need "Queer Eye for the Straight Guy" FAB 5 to come here and kick my ***.... I should have been shot before I started this. kh ps- We need a new FORUM here that is for people that have burned out on talking about the sordid audio world and would prefer talking of Bush and Jesus.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Maybe "Queer Eye" can expand the "Fab Five" to the "Sensational Six" and hire the Rev. Gene Robinson to help with spiritual matters! As a practicing Episcopalian I was AGAINST his confirmation, but NOT because he is gay! My problem is that he left his wife and children to pursue his sexual gratification. As far as I'm concerned this action, weather gay or straight, should disqualify Robinson from sheparding the flock. He made a COMMITMENT to his wife and children and FAILED to live up to it--this makes him a miserable spiritual leader in my estimation and one that I would have a VERY hard time looking "up" to. I sure wish we hadn't opened the "RELIGION" can of worms around here. Like Kelley I too was raised in a liberal Episcopal family and my skin CRAWLS when the RIGHT in both Washington and the military bring Jesus and Satan into the mix. I can't tell you how much I HATE John Ashcroft, but I better leave this alone around here--it seems most hi-fi nuts in general and Klipsch fans in particular are VERY much far-right conservatives . . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnalOg Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 Ya, I think we better get back on base, I have a strong inclination on were this thread is going to now. Religion & Politics. What's it all about Alphie? Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 I don't plan to continue it. Alan, On another topic, have you heard the new CD by Boz Scaggs? He does a bunch of jazz tunes. NPR did an interview with him and played a bit of the music. I guess that even if you don't like it, it might introduce a lot more people to jazz. Marvel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted October 17, 2003 Author Share Posted October 17, 2003 "As I have gotten older, and read more (concentration of English and Philosophy at University), I have moved further and further away from Religion as ANY kind of answer to existence or meaning of life." Interesting, since there is almost as much philosophical writing supporting the God concept as there is detracting from it. "To tell you the truth, I cant even bear to attend funerals and weddings that are religion based as watching it reminds me of sitting in a time capsule looking at the equivalent of a man "letting blood" to cure an illness. While I agree that some of the tenants of religion have goodness, the entire explanation feels like looking at something that is archaic and almost akin to looking for guidance from the "Moondogs". You must not have been paying attention those first six years. At any rate, looking for guidance from your Moondogs constitutes idolatry -- and is strictly forbidden. "I actually think the American Indian was far more advanced spiritually in all ways." Some truth here. Many were monotheistic or deists, and yes -- very peaceful. This happens to me when I go camping and don't have to deal with this forum. There is something about the simple life that makes being "peaceful" much easier. "In my view, the more peaceful North American Indian would have been a FAR better role model than 99% of all the practicing Christians. They sure did have a better appreciation of the melding of earth and spiritual. Practicing Christians, and those who call themselves "Christian" are not the same thing. Going to Church makes one a Christian about as much as going into a garage makes them a car. I like the dancing too, but believe some should contain it to the privacy of their own homes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted October 17, 2003 Share Posted October 17, 2003 You know Mark I hate these types of topics . But all I can say to that post is Amen brother well said !! Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted October 19, 2003 Share Posted October 19, 2003 ---------------- To toss some gas onto the fire, my wife and I converted from being very reformed Protestants to being very strong Catholics. ---------------- Marvel, Way to go! When people talk of great Church music, they aren't referring to pieces by Protestant composers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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