damonrpayne Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 Oh, and another obvious thing. The original argument is entirely dependent on the fact that Zion is a subset of the Matrix. If the Oracle's statements from the lastest trailer are to be believed (one statement taken out of context though) "Do you know what happened to Neo?" "He is trapped in a place between this world and the machine world" This one statement, depending on what is meant by "machine world" could prove or disprove most of the theories. After all, how much sense (from a scientific standpoint) does it make that Neo is somehow in between the matrxi and reality? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelstano Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 The NPR story I remembered is here: http://www.npr.org/display_pages/features/feature_1264976.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKuziel Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 O.K. Here is a link to a spoiler. DO NOT READ if you don't want to know how this trilogy ends. But I will give you a clue, They are machines. http://www.ngemu.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=38092 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 "My brother is a minister and he loves the movie, says there is spiritual references all through the movie." Well, he's right. However, as far as being "Christian" based, I'm not so sure. I suppose maybe, if you stretch a little. The biggest problem is that Christ knew who He was from the get-go, and didn't need prodding or convincing from anyone. He sure didn't need confirmation from "a prophet" -- because as well as being Diety, He was also both High Priest and prophet. I think Dune actually comes closer to this whole thing than The Matrix. At any rate, if we accept the premise as true -- we can surmise the following: 1) The One, is well... The One. That means the "Ones" before him were imposters, just like there were many "Messiahs" before Christ came. 2) Neo, the true "One" has something inside of him that the others didn't. Neo carries with him the original spark of humanity. The complete "human" that is perfectly connected to the creative order. Notice how in Reloaded, Neo can now use his "powers" outside of The Matrix (in The Real World). He also has power over life and death, because bringing Trinity back in the Matrix, was the same as bringing her back in The Real (after all, she died in both places at the same time). It now seems when Neo is around, there is a thinning of the wall that separates the two worlds. 3) The Architect is not "God". He is the personification of that which enslaved the human race with a lie. He is the Devil. He shrouds his lies with the truth. Everything he told Neo was for the purpose of beguiling and confusing him. On the surface it sounded good, plausible, probable -- but an important piece of information is missing -- left out. The "Devil" does not help you find a way out of a problem -- he shows you the fasted way into one. The most interesting part of the movie to me was that access to the mainframe was through The Matrix. I think "Christ" should be smart enough to know that you can't get there by following the Yellow Brick Road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted October 24, 2003 Author Share Posted October 24, 2003 ---------------- On 10/24/2003 12:59:28 PM PKuziel wrote: O.K. Here is a link to a spoiler. DO NOT READ if you don't want to know how this trilogy ends. But I will give you a clue, They are machines. http://www.ngemu.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=38092 ---------------- Dooooooood!!!!!! Why did you put the clue in there? CMown! Dean Good points. Has anyone read this take on the matrix yet? There is a link to it from the article I originaly posted. It has the biblical theory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 Gnosticism is not an early form of Christianity -- though some early Christians believed in it. It is actually a Pagan form of philosophy that teaches one can know God through the accumulation of knowledge, or Gnosis. Christians believe knowledge teaches us about God, but that is not the same as knowing God -- which comes through revelation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKuziel Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 Moon: For all I know the guy who wrote the spoiler is full if crud. I personally do not agree with his view. I don't think I gave anything away but I bet it sure did get you thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted October 24, 2003 Author Share Posted October 24, 2003 Ah... ok phew. I though you had some serious knowledge, some insight or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 Interesting stuff in there, but I think that guy needs to get a real life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKuziel Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 ---------------- On 10/24/2003 1:28:35 PM m00n wrote: Ah... ok phew . I though you had some serious knowledge, some insight or something. ---------------- Hehehehehehehehe Although As I re-read that spoiler it does seem plausable. That would indeed be a mind screw to the 10th power! I do have some serious knowledge but unfortunatly that knowledge has nothing to do with the Matrix movies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 ---------------- On 10/24/2003 12:59:28 PM PKuziel wrote: O.K. Here is a link to a spoiler. DO NOT READ if you don't want to know how this trilogy ends. ---------------- long, detailed... i really like the theory... very plausable... I hadn't read that one before. It actually makes the "energy source" doubt... logical Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIUHuskies Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 What a mind job - It's going to seem like a loooong time until the relase date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 The loon may be right, and it looks like he might have pegged it. Matrix writer-directors Larry and Andy Wachowski commissioned seven artists from Japan, America and Korea to make nine short films set in the world of their feature trilogy. Some of the top anime directors contributed to this anthology, including Yoshiaki Kawajiri (Ninja Scroll), Koji Morimoto (Robot Carnival), and Shinchiro Watanabe (Cowboy Bebop). Some of the films tie directly into the narrative of the live-action movies. Drawn in a style reminiscent of Jean "Moebius" Giraud, Mahiro Maeda's The Second Renaissance (Part I & Part II) depicts the human-machine wars that caused the enslavement of humanity and the creation of the Matrix. The duel between two flamboyantly costumed Kabuki warriors in Kawajiri's Program is an expanded version of the cybernetic training Neo (Keanu Reeves) undergoes in the first Matrix film. Watanabe evokes the look of old newspaper photographs in A Detective Story, which falls outside the storyline of the features. Fast-paced, violent and grim, The Animatrix is an uneven but intriguing compilation that represents a new level in the ongoing cross-pollination between Japanese animation and American live action. What's the deal with the unexplained reference to "the Osiris" in "The Matrix Reloaded"? Or the backstory of the character known only as "Kid"? How and why did the machines overthrow mankind? And what about what's happening to the world away from the characters we know from the central movies? "The Animatrix" answers those questions. There are nine segments in this piece, one CGI and eight mixes of computers and flat-cell animation. All are done in the style of Japanese "anime," with everything good (sophisticated story development) and bad (demeaning attitudes toward women) that entails. Everything is pure backstory--you'll find nothing that changes the course or meaning of what you'll find in the core movies. And not all of it is necessary. Four segments--"Final Flight of the Osiris," "The Second Renaissance" 1&2, and "Kid's Story"--dovetail directly into the content of the two movies. "Kid's Story" features cameo appearances by Keanu Reeves as Neo and Carrie-Ann Moss as Trinity. Moss also reappears as Trinity in "A Detective Story," which seems to provide some clue as to why Neo recognizes her name the first time they meet. Four other segments--"Program," "Matriculated," "World Record," and "Beyond"--don't actually add anything material to the story. However, they allow us glimpses into what's going on when the crew of the Nebuchadnezzar isn't looking: a flaw in the Matrix programming, a campaign to convert machines to the human cause, an alternate way to comprehend the reality of the Matrix, and more. Some of them are interesting, others are self-consciously artistic and verge on incomprehensible. All of the pieces have one thing in common--they're too short for us to immerse ourselves in the content and characters. In "Final Flight of the Osiris," we've barely met the characters before they're all dead. Some are never even given names. It risks becoming a barrage of free association, especially when each segment is separated from the ones that flank it by a lengthy credit sequence. Still, it makes an adequate diversion, even if it's not as groundbreaking as the live-action movies. It often seems unnecessary, and probably is, but it's entertaining, and that's what we really want from our anime, isn't it? All right. I know a lot of the reviews said this was bad and that the story was useless. Well, this DVD is what seperates those who understand the Matrix and those who still mindlessly think that the machines won. After Revolutions comes out more and more people will realize the truth. Don't be a fool, watch this DVD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted October 24, 2003 Author Share Posted October 24, 2003 Uhhh errr... I skipped DeanG's post because I was worried about Revolations spoilers. Did it contain spoilers? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted October 25, 2003 Share Posted October 25, 2003 No, nothing spoiled at all. What the fellow did from the other forum was extrapolate from Animatrix. I think he's wrong though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted October 25, 2003 Author Share Posted October 25, 2003 Oh.. I have not seen the animatrix, was it good? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NIUHuskies Posted October 25, 2003 Share Posted October 25, 2003 ---------------- I have not seen the animatrix, was it good? ---------------- I rented it for the first time last night. It wasn't great, wasn't bad. I don't suggest buying it, but I do suggest renting it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted October 26, 2003 Share Posted October 26, 2003 ---------------- On 10/25/2003 10:26:16 AM DeanG wrote: I think he's wrong though. ---------------- Hmmmm... I think he's partially wrong especially on what's real and what's part of the matrix (particularly in his Q&A)... but might be right about the ****** ******* *** *** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erdric Posted October 26, 2003 Share Posted October 26, 2003 double post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erdric Posted October 26, 2003 Share Posted October 26, 2003 There are a number of posts over on HTF in the Revolutions thread by someone who has attended an advanced screening (someone who's trusted by most everyone at HTF) and has confirmed that post #387 of that thread has the correct plot of the final film. Post #387 was posted by someone other than the person who has seen the film. Two different sources with the same story. MOST IMPORTANTLY, the final Revolutions trailer confirms most of what is contained in the links below. http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/showthread.php?&postid=1832549#post1832549 Post #387 READ AT YOUR OWN RISK http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/showthread.php?&postid=1785886#post1785886 Here's a more detailed version of post #387. Again, READ AT YOUR OWN RISK http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/showthread.php?&postid=1836852#post1836852 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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