sheltie dave Posted November 23, 2003 Share Posted November 23, 2003 Hello Dean, I have been chomping at the bit to throw the monoblocs into action for the past four months or so, but first the lack of a high quality preamp, and then going out to Washington state to play demo man relegated the MC60s to the back burner. I am planning on firing the 'Silvers up tomorrow, and am interested in a few tips from you and others in the know. First, with them sitting fallow for four months, should I bring them up on the variac first, or power them up with speakers attached, and allow them an hour or so to run idle? Second, I will throwing them to the Khorns. Would you recommend using the 8 or 4 ohm taps? I could do a back search on your comments, but I have been up since 3 am WA time and you were noted for your extensive and expansive posting conversations, as your better half has noted A longggg search! Third, our little munchkin is blooming - hope yours is doing top of the pops as well! Ciao Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 23, 2003 Share Posted November 23, 2003 Forget the variac -- fire them babies up! I think most here would say use the 8 ohm taps. What did you settle on for a preamp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltie dave Posted November 23, 2003 Author Share Posted November 23, 2003 I ran with one of your suggested, and found a factory wired AES-1 down in Atlanta. The guy lives less than a mile from where I picked up the Khorn/Belle trio!I could have picked it up and saved the shipping... The flip side of this geographic karma is Minnesota, where that Aussie sold his AES to Wolfram, and the kid from Germany tried to boondoggle me on an MC240. I'll never buy anything from the land'o'lakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 23, 2003 Share Posted November 23, 2003 Excellent, you did good. Just remember to let the gear warm up for 3 minutes of so before you turn it up. Did you get a manual with the AE-1 -- I can't remember if it's inverting or not (you might have to flip positive and negative on the amps binding posts). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai2000 Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 Dave, congrats on the preamp. The AE-1 is indeed a great unit. Which 6SN7s are you using? Wolfram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 The AE-1 IS inverted, so don't forget to switch the positive and negative leads on the speaker wires. It make a big difference. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 forget the variac on those amps... re: 4 versus 8 ohm, try both. I found that I prefered 4 ohm with my k-horns on the dunaco MkIVs, they sounded like they had a bigger bottom, even if some would say they were "bloated" or "floppy", let your ears be the judge! let us know how they sound, tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 Good advice above regarding the 8ohm vs 4 ohm tap. This is something everyone should try. While using the speaker recs as a guideline, true understanding will only come after trying both for a length of time. As all of this, recs are to be used as guidelines to perhaps narrow down a selection. They are neither full-poof nor unconditional. And what worked well on one amp, might not follow on another. As Tony states, try BOTH taps out if able. I have had a handful of Jolida's pass through here and most sounded better via the 4ohm taps on dynamic driver speakers of more normal sensitivity. I prefer my own EL-34 amp at the 8ohm taps on the CW AND monitors and have left it soldered there now. You need to do some experimenting. The Quicksilvers M-60 are nice, well-built, simple, and solid amps. Perhaps I shouldnt assume you bought Dean's pair. Here they are below. Quicksilvers always struck me as pretty musical and had a family sound. If Mike had promoted more, as he almost NEVER did, they would have been more well-known. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 I hope he gets tired of them so I can buy them back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 The thing about Quicksilvers is they didnt JUMP OUT AT YOU with super extended top end or gut wrenching bottom. Indeed, these are not AUDIOPHILE delight amps that please as much in the showroom. NExt to an Audio Research, the average buyer would jump on the Audio Research like he does on a HT speaker next to a more neutral sample. But I found the Quicksilvers, though not in your face, to be an amp one could live with on the long term. Yes, there are more vibrant amps and more extended amps top and bottom. They are even more refined samples within the genre (even Mike's line), but you can never really go wrong with a good up-to-spec Quicksilver amp for fun with PP tube. They just dont spin and jump the audiophile dance like some others. And I find that many people are looking for this aspect, hence the sale of QS on Audiogon. This could be their loss depending on where they turn. On the other hand, some of the Quicksilver's power, depending on model, is not needed for something like the Khorn. This is my only drawback on the selection in that role. But I have never heard a Quicksilver I didnt at least think was a nice sounding amp. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltie dave Posted November 24, 2003 Author Share Posted November 24, 2003 Kelly, you forgot to post the picture of the M-60 sitting on our right khorn! It is getting jealous its brother gets all the glory. I would love to still be able to hear 20-20k, within 3 dB, but I am long past that point. Also, the room everything resides in also is not of surpassing audio design quality. I think too many people on this forum get so wrapped up in an elliptical paradigm of "the perfect setup" or "the perfect tube amp," that one forgets listening and enjoying music should be of paramount importance. The Quicks, as you noted, can create a very enjoyable listening experience without causing my ears to fall off. I got them for a mere pittance of what some people have invested in their amps (thank you, Dean,) and yet they also are two or three worlds above what some can spend on their amps. I listened to Mike's setup out in Washington, and he probably has 80% of what Big Busta has for 10-20% of Busta's outlay. I still want one of your SVSs, Mike. I'll send you the Crown PL4. Perspective is relative on this site. You have guys like Parrot, squawking that SETs are a POS and clipped wave forms; Guy, who has esoteric equipment I will never even see, let alone hear, who declaims to the huddled masses below; and people sharpening their axes on grindstones and discharging caps on enemies It would be a boring world if everyone liked the same test tones I do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 Well, I can assure you one thing; that AE-1 and Quicksilver M-60 combo with a good tube selection and quality frontend is a helluva lot more enjoyable than a good percentage of the stuff you will find out there and so far above what many deem "hi-end" sonics that you might not find the need to continue the hamster wheel run. I imagine that duo to bring a good portion of what makes music enjoyable with some emotion stirring coming in high on the meter. A quick visit to many of the salons will find the emotion leached from the system in favor of a notion if ill-begotten detail with artificially etched images. You might find yourself lucky enough not to have to wander down that path. I did, and came back from almost dead to never look back unless to listen for a vantage point. Dont take the above as a note to ignore things like setup and cable or various other tweaks. But know that all things equal, forgetting the power requirements, you have a very nice system heart that would make many a soul happy. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai2000 Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 Greg, your info on polarity is true for the AE-3, but NOT for the AE-1. Your post has made me dig out two of my test LP's, just to make sure and if I'm not totally deaf the AE-1 requires 'normal' speaker connections (i.e. not reversed). So no tube suggestions for this preamp?????? Wolfram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltie dave Posted November 24, 2003 Author Share Posted November 24, 2003 Wolfram, I checked, and there are blackplate RCAs in there. I spent more time this morning keeping the rug crawler from detaching the power chord from the wall socket than really listening to Joni Mitchell, but the Dynaco ST70 still sounds great. I am going to hook the the Silvers on the AES-1 tonight, and wed the other system with the Belles. I spent a couple hours today trying to source a twisted plastic conduit that will attach via an internal threaded hosel to a wall socket. There has to be a good conduit setup with socket screwdowns that will babyproof power wire runs. Right now they are Liam's most preferred teething toys Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 Those RCA Victor 6NS7's I snarfed out of that TV are fully wanked. The most wanked 6NS7's I've came across yet. Wotta rip-off! The Coke-Bottle 5U4 is at least 75%, yay. I need to steal the PS transformer to make up the difference. If you get Khorns dialed in with the Cary and Quicksilvers, I dought you will be worried about a subwoofer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai2000 Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 Dave, sounds like a lot of fun . I shall be getting some GE's and some Tung Sols pretty soon. Let's see how they'll sound. Currently I am using two Sylvaniy VT231 and two Sylvania 6SN7 GTB black base/red writing. It's quite a nice combo, the GTBs better than the CBS JAN-CHY-5692 (brown base) which sound very 'flat'. I'll also try the 4ohm taps of the Marantz - might be interesting. Wolfram Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted November 24, 2003 Share Posted November 24, 2003 Could someone explain what difference it makes to the audio (if both speakers are connected the same), that the phase be one way or the other? I can see from a recording persective, where having the phase the same through the chain could make for a cleaner recording, but the mix is done at this point. As long as the left and right are the same. Fill me in, please. Marvel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltie dave Posted November 24, 2003 Author Share Posted November 24, 2003 Mike, repeat after me - if the TV has been placed in the yard, and left there for three months, then it is not stealing to scavenge parts off it. What you are now doing is called curbside recycling here in the gentrified midwest! You do have to be careful though, in that lots of people in Washington have guns and like to use them on deer, elk, and moose. Make sure you wear lots of orange, and if the locals do take interest in your shopping activities, tell them your hand is stuck on the power transformer you are removing from the tube tv Marvel, an out-of-phase speaker is bad juju. It will cancel out the correct in-phase sound by creating standing waves, making Madonna sound like the Morman Tabernacle Choir. Now that would be the Immaculate Conception! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 "You do have to be careful though, in that lots of people in Washington have guns and like to use them on deer, elk, and moose. Make sure you wear lots of orange, and if the locals do take interest in your shopping activities, tell them your hand is stuck on the power transformer you are removing from the tube tv" Your thinking Stevens County, where you have to have watermelon sized balls to blunder on someone's property. Even worse, is when you get up north in the Idaho panhandle, watch your step! I am making some progress on this 300B amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted November 25, 2003 Share Posted November 25, 2003 But out of pahse with what? If the left channel speak is hooked up + to + / - to - (and the right one is the same), they are in phase with one another and the equipment. It won't matter squat in the room. If you swapped the speaker leads so the where hooked up + to - / + to -, the two are still in phase with each other. The room doesn't care. Marvel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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