Randy Bey Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 I was really looking forward to going to Kevin's house to listen to the DRD45 and the Auris 2 speakers. Yesterday I finally made it over. To begin with, we listened to the Belle's on his MD 2A3s. This combo, the last time I was over, stomped the Billie 300B amps. They sounded just like ever, making me re-think the 300B route. It is difficult to call 300B tubes unrefined, but the 2A3 just seems more melodic. Then he plugged in the DRD45 amps. This was immediately apparent. I thought there would be some equivocating, is it better, isn't it, etc. The 45 is clearly a better sounding amp. As much more again as the 2A3 is to a 300B. Reminds me of a joke. There were these two old men at a bar. One starts talking "When I was young, I would get an erection and it took all my strength in both arms to bend it down 45%." The second old man nods. "Then, when I was thirty, I could bend it down with my right arm." The second old man nods again. "When I was fifty, I could bend it until it pointed to the ground. Now, that I'm seventy, I can bend it all the way down with just my left hand." The second old man agrees. "What I want to know," says the first, "is just how strong I'm going to be when I'm eighty!" Anyways, the 45s are better, yes, less power, but completely unnoticable at nominal listening volumes (you headbangers out there might as well stop reading right now). Then Kevin hooked up the Auris 2s and the DRD45s. What a surprizing speaker. A complete 180 degrees out from Kevin's others, the cement boxed Tyrs, these Auris's hum like a guitar, and are about as light. They are, apparently, made that way, to resonate with the music. And they're BIG. They were twice the size I thought they would be. But you can easily lift them as they are hollow and the wood is thin and soft. These speakers had bass out the wazoo. In fact, they were downright boomy, but Kevin is told that will dissapate with time and as the wood flexes into a more malleable condition. I can see where Les Lammers doesn't feel the need for a subwoofer and Kevin says his is for sale shortly. I won't say much about the Auris as they still need breakin, but they are 97dB speakers and the DRD45 ran them to very acceptable volumes. Louder than it was possible to carry on conversation over. I think the whole "you need a thousand watts" philosophy is flawed. Don't ask me how, it is just intuitively obvious to the most casual observer that 1.8 watts and 97dB speakers makes a good match. Anyway I think I will look into 45 amps, they seem like the way to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 Randy, Thanks for the very interesting report. Now that I've finally un-messed-up my speaker crossovers I'm just starting to really enjoy SET sound. Leo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Bey Posted December 16, 2003 Author Share Posted December 16, 2003 The Auris's vibrate like a guitar body. A lot. I could just see the poor losers that cluck cluck over how they hear khorns resonate using their stethoscopes would mess their pants over the Auris. Just hold your hand to the outside while playing and you'll feel quite clearly the wood walls flexing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShapeShifter Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 Randy, Thanks for posting your comments on the amps. Yea, I wouldnt call the 300Bs unrefined either, but based on your comments and those previously posted by other 2A3 owners, it is pretty obvious that the lower watt SETs offer a more refined and melodic sound as you stated. Looks like the 45 just got a NOSE UP on my future amps list. Thanks again, Wes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 ---------------- On 12/16/2003 8:54:25 AM Randy Bey wrote: I think the whole "you need a thousand watts" philosophy is flawed. Don't ask me how, it is just intuitively obvious to the most casual observer that 1.8 watts and 97dB speakers makes a good match. ---------------- Okay, I won't ask you "how." But nobody here is claiming you need a thousand watts. Another ten to thirty is crucial though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 ---------------- On 12/16/2003 9:48:19 AM mdeneen wrote: "clearly the wood walls flexing.." And, the implication is that this is intentional? So, it's a bit of a cross between producer and reproducer? mdeneen ---------------- IMO, Box coloration is not such a bad thing. After all, The Khorns rattles and flexes a lot, too and it still reproduce piano and double bass notes in the most realistic way I've ever heared (better than almost any rigid box speakers). I really don't understand, Howcome it hurts you so much guys to see someone enjoying his system with a low wattage SET amps and speakers that has some box coloration? Klipsch speakers has them too. Let the people enjoy their music and get of their back. You're not perfect either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubinhard Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 "...Another ten to thirty is crucial though." Paul, evidently not for everyone. Same with speakers that vibrate like a guitar, and use a single driver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 Did Kevin ever use some RCA Black Plate 2A3? After having the Moondogs for quite a while, and running through many tube selections, I'll say that some tube combinations really bring out a more finely detailed and harmonically rich sound that might more mirror the 45 in tonal quality. The most focused and detailed, including inner detail, seem to be the vintage 2A3. I also found the mix of the 6SN7 to be VERY important in getting the most out of the MD (NOS Syl Chrome 6SN7WGT -> vintage 5692). Remember the other variables in the mix. Finally, if he has the Black GAte WKZ in the MD, they need to be on for a few days to achieve the best sound. I found my Welbourne amps still sounding better after 24 hours. The BG WKZ are notorious for this. PQ of AudioNote never turns his amps off for this reason. Still, the fact that the 45 amps are not even barely broken in weighs in here so that is something to note. That speaks WELL for these amps to sound this good NEW! Without a doubt, the 45 tube is supposed to be VERY nice sounding with great qualities with only the power issue weighing in. As Randy states, this is not head banger area, but the area where nuance reigns supreme. Thanks for the comments. Here are the speakers that Randy is referring to. They are not cheap and are custom order. They operate on a totally different principle than most loudspeakers by TUNING the flex instead of attempting to totally GET RID OF IT. Les loves his AURUS II. CONGRATULATIONS on the purchase, Kevin. Great the 45s are working out as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 ---------------- On 12/16/2003 10:16:13 AM mobile homeless wrote: As Randy states, this is not head banger area, but the area where nuance reigns supreme. ---------------- Ah yes, "nuance." Wasn't the catchword "sublime" before that? The "subtleties" of these amps are no doubt too too much for the unsophisticated. You have to be really really intelligent to appreciate them, don't you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 I'm done with the pissing contest also its just not worth it ! Paul I suggest you give it up also. The results are the same every time "name calling and cussing" Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Bey Posted December 16, 2003 Author Share Posted December 16, 2003 yes, the speaker cabinets are intended to vibrate and the manufacturer builds them like a custom violin maker. They truly are a beautiful speaker, finely made. I can't speak for how long the 2A3s were on prior to my visit. Kevin is in the habit of "burning in" his new speakers so they may have been on quite a while recently. Les seems to be able to hear his Blackgates "coming on" with the Auris over a few hours. Could well be, from my short audition of these, that that is possible. I guess my point is that the differences are not subtle, and even a tin ear like myself can hear them (between 2A3 and 45). Further, the watt output does not seem to matter that much, as both can go pleasingly loud w/o audible distortion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 there are a couple of speaker designers out there who are not building the "brick sh*t house" type speakers, made from resin, or lead, or concrete, or laminates of these materials, etc. to eliminate perceived cabinet vibration. I say perceived because some of these speakers use the cabinet to absorb vibrations internally so that you cannot feel them on the outside of the cabinet (makes for great results in stereophile cabinet tests...can you say "built to excel in TESTS"?). Some designers try to voice the speakers including the "live" cabinet. Just as they tweak the crossover design and componentry or work on different driver materials...they take into account the cabinet´s resonances and voice to a final product. To me this seems as valid a practice as any, since ALL designers voice using the previously mentioned variables, adding one more does not seem to be ridiculous, also many would argue that it is not really one more variable since many of the supposedly "dead" cabinets are not really sound-neutral. that is to say even dead cabinets require that the speaker designer voice the speakers taking into acount the "dead" cabinet. As an acoustic instrument designer/builder (violin, chello, piano) takes into account his cabinet/body with as much or more care as he does the sound driver/exciter (strings, hammers, keys) so too can a speaker designer/builder. makes sense to me. I think we may see more and more "live" cabinet speakers since many have described the some of the current offerings in this genre as "fast", "detailed" and "dynamic", all of which seem good audiophile values. best regards, tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 ---------------- On 12/16/2003 10:37:30 AM mdeneen wrote: "Howcome it hurts you so much guys to see someone enjoying his system with a low wattage SET amps and speakers that has some box coloration?" ------------- Just for the record, I inferred no "quality" reference to the vibrating boxes. I was just curious about the intent of the thing as a speaker. I am not part of the pi$$ing contest. Thanks. mdeneen ---------------- Not trying to get you into one. Most Klipsch speakers vibrate like hell and still manage to sound beautiful (especially the heritage line). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mopar dave Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 correct me if i'm wrong, but i thought that a better speaker cabinet was one that did'nt flex. heck, i even added extra bracing to the inside of my cornwalls to make a more rigid cabinet. sounds cleaner now. i was told flexing cancels some of the bass notes. dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 This is why many say that the plywood for horns is far superior to the MDF. I know that companies like Galante make their low price horns out of MDF and save the best for the void free plywood for better properties. I believe one of their models comes in both MDF and plywood with the ply being a substantial sonic upgrade. There are many theories at play and I think you can get quality sound in many camps optimizing that principle or theory (bracing and rigidity can bring great results if not too deadening). And some designs deal better with compromises than others. I would like to hear Kevin's system. Too bad we live so far apart. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 Is the flexing cabinet acting as a passive radiator? Leo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 Randy, Thanks for the review. I could certainly see a 45 amp somewhere in my future. Thanks to Kevin for taking the plunge, and both of you for sharing the experience. The 45 seems to fit my audio philosphy which generally prefers quality over quantity. Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubinhard Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 "Is the flexing cabinet acting as a passive radiator?" I would imagine so, since it's making sound. I think it's fascinating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 ---------------- On 12/16/2003 12:00:36 PM jazman wrote: The 45 seems to fit my audio philosphy which generally prefers quality over quantity. ---------------- LOL! Tell me another good one. Might I suggest you wear some silk pajamas since you want to appear ultra sophisticated? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tubinhard Posted December 16, 2003 Share Posted December 16, 2003 Hey watch it, I happen to like my silk pajamas. Seriously Edmond, that's the kind of statement that relates to the objections by those of us who enjoy push-pull amps. All you can really say is that it sounds like a good way for you to go because of the music you like and the listening habits you have. These amps make your music sound gorgeous, just like our amps make our music sound gorgeous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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