mobile homeless Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 Blindman, you might try running your Moondogs with a good active tube line stage instead of NO preamp. I find this fleshes out the harmonics and presentation as well as providing more lower mid/midrange DRIVE. While I have enjoyed a passive for some qualities, a HIGH QUALITY active tube line stage will take your Moondogs to a different level. In my view, it's a major step up. The catch is it has to be a GOOD active tube line stage not to bring the sonics down. Thankfully, there are some great tube options that are far less expensive than you might think, many of which will cause the passive preamp to hit the shelf. I have owned a number of passives and prefer the active over the passive if the active has the quality. Sheltie Dave, I dont frequent the Scott forum so not sure what you are referring to. Perhaps this question resulted from some exchange with Ryan over there. Otherwise, I dont even see where the mention comes from. Also, if you read my post, I see nothing wrong with SOME posting regarding products. Indeed, I posted 99% of the stuff from Jeff as well as a few things from Craig and others. This was an important part of my post ie see mention of CRaig's posting of his amp which I thought fine. But there is a line and I didnt see why this post was even here. It's title was a call to ALL NOSValves customers to come forth. If Ryan had done the same thing I would have stated the same point. Again, I thought Craig's shots of his new amp a good thing. But some things might best be left within the company. IF this was some continuation of a Scott Forum thread, it sure wasnt evident. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssh Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 Kelly, In the Vintage Scott Equipment thread, Ryan expressed an opinion about the 299A & or B being too bright for his taste. With his vast experience with Scott gear, I have a great respect for his opinion, & believe he intends brightness to mean in relation to other Scott units, & perhaps other tube gear. He went on to say that many others agree with him. I wouldn't be surprised that others shared Ryan's opinion, but Craig took exception to the statement, & asked who these many people are. Craig then replied that he gets good feedback from his 299A & B customers. Guy then posted that Craig was probably not getting truthful feedback. So I think Craig is asking for feedback on the brightness of the A & B, & I don't think he really intended to get it just from his customers. Indeed, one poster wasn't a customer of his, & Craig was glad to get the response. There is some good info resulting from this, & if we keep it civil, there will be more. SSH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ssh Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 I should have said too bright with some Klipsch speakers, as I don't think it was a blanket statement that the A & B are exclusively too bright. SSH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 15, 2004 Author Share Posted January 15, 2004 Kelly, I hear what your saying this may have been a little over the top. I just got a little upset when someone is saying my customers are complaining when I have never heard a word to this effect except when they are freshly rebuilt once given time to settle in I have heard nothing but raves. The thought of my customers being scared to comment is just hard for me to believe. I think this person is just grinding the old axe to another tune these days. If my customers are unhappy with the top end of there amps all they have to do is send it back. This stuff is all adjustable !! The thing is this type of talk never happens at the Scott Forum only here where the largest chunk of my customers happen to frequent does that make you wonder? sure does me ! What I can't figure is why any customer of mine would be scared to voice there opinion. I treat my customers with utmost respect. If they truly are unhappy with the top end of there amp I would just say send it back I'll fix it. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 Here is a quote from the Scott forum written by keith: "Good grief, it's Christmas Eve. Give it a break you 2 clowns (lovingly)!" Here is a quote from what I wrote: "Please, you are the two best Scott magicians in the country. Don't ruin each others reputations. I have rebuilt two 299c's one with Craig's method and one with Ryan's they both sound marvelous. One has more of a "Mac" sound ie: slightly warmer than the other but that could be the difference between Scott and RCA 7591s." Is it just friendly competition? I have seen worse in the commercial world. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 Just to add a couple of more points. Since I do have 2 Scotts operating in different rooms I can relate to what Ryan is saying about the differences in some of these amps. Granted I have only heard my 2, but I understand what he is saying. I just have a hard time with saying one is better than the other. Heck, they are both great, with slightly different sound characteristics that you would expect by design. I can't say one is better. If I was forced to give one away, I don't know which one it would be. You really can't go wrong with any of these in my optinion. My other point is that I have never swapped the 222 to the corns, or the 299 to the Las since they were rebuilt. So I still have some testing to do. All I know is that I had used both amps for a few weeks before I sent them to Craig. ...and what a difference now. The rebuilds made all the difference in the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 15, 2004 Author Share Posted January 15, 2004 Ryan, I'm not going to get into a circuit design pissing match here ! I can adjust the high end very easily. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltie dave Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 Kelly, Ryan and Craig are both working at clearing the waters here. It looks like Craig was concerned that the lack of balance was internal to his rebuilds. Ryan has thoughts regarding the circuitry of the a and b series, vis-a-vis the engineering changes for the c and d. The prevelant high end will be a difference(or imbalance) that will undoubtably be most pronounced for Klipsch owners. It is a very good topic to touch on here. Neither Craig nor Ryan will ever be selected to edit the Reader's Digest condensed book program, or participate in a U. N. diplomatic mission, so we can handle 90% of their vitrolic and argumentive threads. What attention they draw to their business is good to most Klipsch owners. You also have drawn extensive visibility to your web design business on this site. You post(often) and you have some of the best photographs and graphics of any site I have seen on the internet. We see Al K. all over the site regarding crossovers, and Alan has jumped on building Scott cases with justo here. ALL EXCELLENT, all a service to forum members. Let's stop harping and get some good discusiion on the merits and foibles of the amps, and not drag business in here. If Craig could drop the first three letters of his header, they would be gone now. Conceptualize.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 15, 2004 Author Share Posted January 15, 2004 Ryan, This isn't the time or the place. I say I can you say I can't this could go on for ever. Let it rest. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 15, 2004 Author Share Posted January 15, 2004 On a side note. Is there a way to edit a thread title ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch RF7 Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 I dont know yet sir Im still waiting for someone to rebuild my 299-C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltie dave Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 Georg, don't worry. Quality, not speed, gets you where you want to be. If you want quality and speed, you should have rented Elle McPherson Even better yet, watch Fini running after the St. Pauli girl pulling the Volvo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 15, 2004 Author Share Posted January 15, 2004 Erfan, I'm back at rebuilding amps hard and heavy you will see yours slide up the Queue fast now ! I usually do near to one a day if possible. I had to get those new amps built it was driving me nuts having the stuff sitting here for so very long. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny dB Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 As far as needing more headroom or "balls", I think my 299A is fine in that department. I've got it on now with Loudness on, Vol. @ 2, Bass +2, Trebel +2, and it's @99db with 104db peaks through Khorns! That's a reading from my listening position. I'm quite pleased. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 Blindman, you like the Scott 299b over the Moondogs? Why? With or without pre-amplifier? How do they compare to the vintage solid-state harmon/kardon receiver? Or the Eicos? I lived with a big old pair of Klipsch Cornwalls Is (serial # 32x57 and 32x58) with K-33-E woofer, K-51-V metal mid-range horn, K-77-M metal tweeter horn and B-2 crossovers. My only complaints are a bounce-back from the B-2 crossover network that bites you in the 9 kHz range. Bright? You betcha, not the amplifiers, the big ole horns! The Cornies tip up in the high end, creating an annoying problem, but tube amplifiers also suffer from jittery microphonics and should be isolated from all vibrations. NOSvalues and SVS do tread a fine line here on the web site the difference is if they devote themselves to serving Klipsch fans or not I relish the carping over this feature or that of amplifiers and loudspeakers, I learn more that way, and remember, there is no democracy without dissent. Johhny how does the Scott 299A compare to the ASL? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch RF7 Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 ---------------- On 1/15/2004 1:12:14 PM NOSValves wrote: Erphan, I'm back at rebuilding amps hard and heavy you will see yours slide up the Queue fast now ! I usually do near to one a day if possible. I had to get those new amps built it was driving me nuts having the stuff sitting here for so very long. Craig ---------------- No prob bud Just give me a holler when you have the damage report, i want this amp totally tricked out with self bias and all the goodies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunrisets Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 Craig ya know I'm very pleased with your old 299a to me it's not bright love the smooth warm sound. Cornwalls are now rope caulked.Lloyd will be sending you the mapletree pre-amp the week of the 19th. are all the parts in for the mark IIIs ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 15, 2004 Author Share Posted January 15, 2004 Harry, I'm sure they will be soon. Ned at Triode let himself run out of Front end boards so ..... I am at his mercy ! If worse come to worse you can take my set home till yours are done. I'll get you rocking one way or the other. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 Both systems perform admirably! The Moondogs fill up the space more fully and have a deeper and wider soundstage. But the Scott really makes those lp's come alive. If some people find it too bright, I rejoice in hearing the cymbals sound like they are in the room with me. - Blindman Colin, here is his comments concerning the Scott and MDs. I wouldnt say he prefered it. Both are being used (just like I use both my EICO and MD & an EL-34PP). HE is using the MD withouta preamp, something I DONT recommend, especially if you want the dynamics fleshed out. Insert a fine tube line stage for improvement. Mediocre and it will drag system down. PAssive best on the cheap. Active quality tube line stage best for sonics in my view. It took me a year to convince Jeff Lessard this. HE now runs a Loesch active tube stage. As for the EICO, I believe BLindman said all his arrived DOA. So no comparison. I will have a Scott 299B that was rebuilt with the Russian caps here shortly. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 I've got a 222-C that Craig restored using the Russian caps. The sucker makes my ChorusII's pound out the bass. You would have to hear it to believe it. I'm terribly satisfied with it. Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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