coda Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 Had the chance last night and further extended time today listening without the black grill cloth on my 1976 Cornwalls, a little more listening fatigue sans cloth, guessing it's heightened awareness of some ringing with the midrange horn that's not as apparent with the grill back on. Also noticed with certain material that the extra bit of revealing nature without the grill could be a nice thing. The weave pattern on this black grill cloth results in a heavier "stripe" that runs vertically. Looking at the cane grill cloth samples available at wendellfabrics.com it appears a heavier stripe weave runs both vertically and horizontally. Couple of questions, are there audible differences changing from the original Cornwall black grill cloth to the cane cloth, is the fabric weave on the 1970's Khorn different from the Cornwall and if so, how, and lastly does anyone prefer listening to their Cornwalls full-time without the grill cloth? TIA for responses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 There was a time when the cloth was actually part of the voicing of the speaker. Changes in the crossover were even made to accomodate the fabric choice for the grill. Not just Klipsch, but Advent, AR, Dahlquist, Magnepan, and a host of others. I would imagine even still, there are current designs out (new Heritage for sure) not using an acoustically "transparent" fabric. Cornwalls greatly benefit from caulking the squawker lens, from the mouth of the horn all of the way to the motorboard. I even caulked the small lens for the tweeter when I had mine -- and I thought there was much improvement. Of course, I was trying to control resonances that were clearly audible at 85db and upwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 This is the original Klipsch cane grill cover from 1977. It is more accustically transparent than the sample in your pic. more like Wendell No.MP1603-01 orLP7544-01 Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 The grill cloth can't be any worse then the cotton in my ears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piranha Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 ---------------- On 1/18/2004 10:22:48 PM NOSValves wrote: The grill cloth can't be any worse then the cotton in my ears ---------------- What's the cotton for? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 Hearing protection from the Cornwall screecher, uh, I mean squawker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted January 18, 2004 Share Posted January 18, 2004 Well, if my Cornwalls looked anything like Chris King's beautiful mahogany decorators, I'd throw away my grills! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 I have owned a plethora of speakers over the years from monitors to floorstanders. Without fail, in every instance, once I got the system optimized, I ran the speakers WITHOUT grills. I found almost all of the grill coverings to restrict transparency somewhat, no matter what the material. Indeed, with my ProAc Mini Towers, I actually packed my grills up and have not seen them in almost 14 years; they are still in the original box. All my monitors are run without grills. What's my point? The Klipsch Cornwalls, which are one year after Tad's and also Decorator Series with the grill kit, are the only speakers that I think sound BETTER with the grills on. While I have occassionaly run them off, it sounds as if it was voiced with them on. I was actually at Tad's house late last night and told him to ditch the grills for a bit as I thought his system/setup and room might actually appreciate the CW sans grills. While some stuff did work well, just as noted, the majority sounded more neutral with the grill. Removing the grill seemed to push the reproduction just a "Tad" into the hot zone. So I still prefer my CW WITH the grills, whether digital or vinyl sources. kh ps - Tad, I dont know of ANY grill cloth that is totally acoustically transparent. Even models that CLAIM to be, while perhaps better than others, is still not as acoustically transparent sans grills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo33 Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 No matter what speakers I have, I always remove the grills and stash them away somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrench_peddler Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 I like the sound of my Lascala's better without the grills. But the Wife's fussing makes it easier to hear them when they are on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piranha Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 ---------------- On 1/18/2004 10:33:20 PM DeanG wrote: Hearing protection from the Cornwall screecher, uh, I mean squawker. ---------------- I didn't realize Craig had CW's. I thought he was a Lascala man? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 Craig and me were just kidding about the cotton and the Cornwall squawker -- though the Cornwall does tend to brittle up in the midrange when pushed really hard. Of course we're talking REALLY hard. I always wondered how grill cloths affect the dispersion pattern, or if they do at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 The left hand cornwall grill cloth looks very like the cloth on the Heresy 2. That was certainly not transparent sonically although I prefered the Heresies playing with rather than without. Of course there are grill covers and grill covers. My Sansui's are part cloth part wood: And it that isnt enough - behind those grills are: I tried all 4 combinations possible with varying results. Ultimately I ended up putting the whole thing back together and using them complete - if nothing else it means I dont lose the bits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisK Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 ---------------- On 1/19/2004 12:17:58 AM mobile homeless wrote: ...What's my point? The Klipsch Cornwalls, which are one year after Tad's and also Decorator Series with the grill kit, are the only speakers that I think sound BETTER with the grills on. While I have occassionaly run them off, it sounds as if it was voiced with them on. I was actually at Tad's house late last night and told him to ditch the grills for a bit as I thought his system/setup and room might actually appreciate the CW sans grills. While some stuff did work well, just as noted, the majority sounded more neutral with the grill. Removing the grill seemed to push the reproduction just a "Tad" into the hot zone. So I still prefer my CW WITH the grills, whether digital or vinyl sources. kh---------------- Couldn't disagree more. I listened extensively to my Cornwall's both with and without grills (comprised of cane, linen, and speaker cloth from various mfrs.) before the final refinishing and found virtually ZERO difference. Oh sure, if you were sitting in the "sweet spot", didn't move your head and concentrated real hard, you might hear a minutely small difference. But then again, was the difference good, bad or "placebo"? Can't say for sure. But I will say when compared with source material (cd, sacd, vinyl) differences, it wasn't even worth discussion. Regards, Chris PS The guy on the website listed below seems like kind of a wacko, but some of the points in the article seem to make sense. Any comments? http://www.diamondcenter.net/digitalstress.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 Chris, dont know what to say here. The grill cloth difference is anything but placebo as it's very discernable to me. It's actually detectable on every speaker I have ever heard and why many ditch the grills. In fact, the Cornwalls stand out in that they are one of the FEW spaekers that I DO like with grills. I am really surprised you hear zero difference. Tad and I heard a definite difference just the other night when we dropped the grills (it was the first time I think he had done this), this with the Sony SCD-777es, Wright Sound WLA-12a, WPA-3.5 Monos, and 76 Cornwalls with AlNiCo (mid/tweet) and Type B xovers. Just like mine, his speakers are basically stock. Lordy, Audrey heard the difference here. Is the difference night and day? I dont think so on some material. IF the material is a bit hot to begin with, the grill actually does remove a bit of the last degree in sibilance just as Tad noted above. As I noted, I usually use ALL my speakers without the grills as it's been a easily definable improvement. The Cornwalls were the first speaker I felt sounded best to me with the grills on. Again, really surprised you heard ZERO difference. I have not heard a grill material that didnt affect the reproduction of the highs somewhat, the Cornwall definitely included. kh ps- As for the article, not going to comment on this guy but I have always noted this difference in vinyl vs digital, but the gap has narrowed. This was really more problematic on long tern listening early on. At least there has been some progress. Still, I agree in that vinyl reproduction is less fatiguing, even now (I still noticed the gap between the Sony SCD-77es and good vinyl although with the Sony 777se, it didnt seen related to the top end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mopar dave Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 i listen to my cornwalls with grills on. i think there is an edge taken off the high end that is needed, although mine are heavily modded with caps,rope caulk,padding and bracing most of the harshness is good, but the grills on help that little bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Adams Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 Thank you, thank you, thank you!!!!!!!! My very first pair of Heresy's (which I still have) came with cane grilles. My next pair of Klipsch's were a pair of vertical horn model Cornwalls that were too good to pass up. Unfortunately, the grilles were black. Then I picked up three more Heresy's and they too had black grilles. Thus began my brain cramp of whether to get rid of the cane grilles (my favorite) and go all black or try to get cane grille material and convert the others (what I really wanted to do). Trouble was....Klipsch doesn't carry cane grille material and I could never find any place that had cane speaker grille material. UNTIL NOW!! WOO HOO!! Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 I want to add the thanks for that site too, Tad. My guitar amp buddy is ordering some cane for his amps as an option after I sent him that link. Swart Amplifier Co. - ST-6V6se kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leok Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 Interesting about the older speakers. I have found the Fortes, Chorus, and RF-7s all work with the grills off. With them on it sounds like the very top end just isn't there. Imaging is also much more 3-dimensional with grills off. Leo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mungkiman Posted January 19, 2004 Share Posted January 19, 2004 I was able to purchase cane direct from Klipsch in 2002 when I was restoring my Shorthorns. I don't know if it was NOS or new stock then, as I've heard it is no longer available. It is an open weave of natural fiber over a synthetic screen backing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.