Griffinator Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 ---------------- On 1/21/2004 9:15:55 AM Bruinsrme wrote: We all agree the fatter the cable the less resistance it will have. So a cable with 350 micro strand will have more surface area than a 8 ga wire therefor less resistance. Now with that said, is the chemistry of the cable or wire important to the performance. No brainer here. some metals conduct better than others. But on a 5 foot even a 10 foot run how much of a difference is it going to make? Uhhmmmm Is that $2000 speaker wire going to bring more or less audio out? Uhmmmmm I have looked at a lot of cables and Monster is adequate but their construction quality control is shotty. Bluejeans cable, kimber cable, MIT and Better cables claim to be better. They are constructed with more attention to detail than that of the monster cables, JMO. How much do you want to spend on cable? take a look at the cables we have mentioned. In the end I would not truly recommend Monster because their price point and workmanship is lacking behind others at or near the same price. ---------------- Fair enough assessment. I like the sound of the Monster stuff I've used, but I'm not really pleased with its durability. I've used the Monster 500 instrument cables - accidentally stepped on one on stage and it immediately broke open the circuit. That's why I said that Mogami, Canare, and many other cable manufacturers will do better than Monster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirebirdTN Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 One last thing, For what its worth, even though I cannot hear any difference between cables, I think there is something to be said for OFC copper. In the past, I have had the ends of speaker wires turn green. It was the Monster stuff. I have no idea why it did that-I know that all metal will oxidize at some point, but this was in my house. Humidity levels? Heat? Who knows, but it *may* be worth the extra expense to keep this from happening to you. The only thing that I did that *may* have sped up the process back then, was tin the ends with solder. It keeps the ends from fraying, but I don't do that anymore, and do not recommend it. Tining wires has its place, but I don't think speaker connections is one of them. Whether you hear a difference between zip cord, or OFC copper ultimately will be up to your ears, but the added benefit of anti-corrosion protection may be worth the extra expense. -Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 oxygen free copper will oxidize just as rapidly as "regular" copper exposed to the same conditions..... there is no added "anti-corrosion benefit" from oxygen free copper... a much more likely explanation of one cable seeming to oxidize or turn green faster than another is how tight the jacket is on the cable... a very tight jacket will limit the amount of oxygen that can get to the copper.... "Oxygen Free Copper" there may be a very slight increase in conductivity in oxygen free copper...but that is not noticible at speaker line levels.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 If I am to understand, PWK didn't worry about this. He was a subscriber to the wire is wire school of thought. I try to remind myself of that when I start wondering about improving what I've got running at the moment. Especially if it is going to cost more money! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FirebirdTN Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 My mistake. I thought OFC coppers main benefit was being less suseptible to corrosion. So there is no added benefit? I know there is the thought that PURE copper conducts better, but aside from that, there is no benefit of anti-corrosive properties? Too bad. (You do learn something new every day!) -Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted January 21, 2004 Share Posted January 21, 2004 do a web search on "oxygen free copper" and see what you get.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ygmn Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 Read this webpage from a retired engineer from McIntosh speaker design: http://home.earthlink.net/~rogerr7/wire.htm It was posted here some time ago...and well worth a post again... He uses science and well Read for yourself....very informative a quote: "It can be solid, stranded, copper, oxygen free copper, silver, etc.--or even "magic" wire--as long as the resistance is kept to be less than 5% of the speaker impedance. There is no listening difference as long as the wire is of adequate size." Enjoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 ---------------- On 1/22/2004 12:16:25 AM ygmn wrote: Read this webpage from a retired engineer from McIntosh speaker design: http://home.earthlink.net/~rogerr7/wire.htm It was posted here some time ago...and well worth a post again... ---------------- I agree that it's a good read, but... ummmmm... i posted a link to it just yesterday in THIS same thread... lol... ---------------- On 1/21/2004 12:28:59 AM formica wrote: Regardless of, most of these resistances are insignificant in comparison to that presented by the speaker itself. Perhaps Roger Russell's Speaker Wire History may make an interesting read... Some may remember R. Russell as former Director of Acoustic Research at McIntosh. ---------------- later... Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chinoloco Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 I prefer the stuff from Rat Shack. Its cheaper and my living room is not design to be able to tell the differences from a cable. Mostly, its just hype and a feeling you get knowing you paid alot of money for copper. I admit it, I have monster speaker wire. I got it at a very good price so I didn't pay a markup. thats why I got it. Otherwise, I think its not too much difference from radio shack and others. I am sure long runs of interconnects might make a slight difference, but even there I am doubtful. I have run so many video interconnect tests to the naked eye and I really can't tell any difference from Monster Video 1, video 2 and video 3 to the cheap ones supplied with the DVD player. I "think" I feel better with the thicker insulation of monster and phoenix gold and radio shack AVfusion cables, so I go with those interconnect cables instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whell Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 Here is my take on the cable debate: I think its the best thing that ever happened to us budget conscious audio freaks. Why? I do think that good quality, multi strand speaker wire is the way to go. I also think that bi-wiring has subtle but appreciable effects. I was able to shop around on the net, be patient, and purchase a very premium internally bi-wired set of speaker cables for a song, because so many audiophile-types have terminal upgrade-itis....especially with regard to cables and interconnects. Thus the "used" market is replete with great deals on quality cables...and components for that matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ygmn Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 ---------------- On 1/22/2004 1:16:15 AM formica wrote: ---------------- On 1/22/2004 12:16:25 AM ygmn wrote: Read this webpage from a retired engineer from McIntosh speaker design: http://home.earthlink.net/~rogerr7/wire.htm It was posted here some time ago...and well worth a post again... ---------------- I guess I missed it since you made it into a url linky thingy in liew of the entire http address.... But it is a good site huh.... I agree that it's a good read, but... ummmmm... i posted a link to it just yesterday in THIS same thread... lol... ---------------- On 1/21/2004 12:28:59 AM formica wrote: Regardless of, most of these resistances are insignificant in comparison to that presented by the speaker itself. Perhaps Roger Russell's Speaker Wire History may make an interesting read... Some may remember R. Russell as former Director of Acoustic Research at McIntosh. ---------------- later... Rob ---------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraveen Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 Here is some speaker cable for you. http://www.aurant.com/signaturefeature.php#feature1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkBK Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 There is an excellent article on the Audioholics.com website regarding speaker wire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big c Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 Did we forget that the reference series is internally wire with monster cables. they might be ok if klipsch decided to use monster. We can all agree that klipsch is a very nice sounding speaker i hope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruinsrme Posted January 22, 2004 Share Posted January 22, 2004 BIG C The runs in the speakers are relatively short. Though I believe the cable is better than a coat hanger for interwiring I m not all that sure it would make that much of a difference it it was monster or AR. JMO Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted January 23, 2004 Share Posted January 23, 2004 ---------------- On 1/21/2004 3:05:45 PM Griffinator wrote: ---------------- On 1/21/2004 9:15:55 AM Bruinsrme wrote: We all agree the fatter the cable the less resistance it will have. So a cable with 350 micro strand will have more surface area than a 8 ga wire therefor less resistance. Now with that said, is the chemistry of the cable or wire important to the performance. No brainer here. some metals conduct better than others. But on a 5 foot even a 10 foot run how much of a difference is it going to make? Uhhmmmm Is that $2000 speaker wire going to bring more or less audio out? Uhmmmmm I have looked at a lot of cables and Monster is adequate but their construction quality control is shotty. Bluejeans cable, kimber cable, MIT and Better cables claim to be better. They are constructed with more attention to detail than that of the monster cables, JMO. How much do you want to spend on cable? take a look at the cables we have mentioned. In the end I would not truly recommend Monster because their price point and workmanship is lacking behind others at or near the same price. ---------------- Fair enough assessment. I like the sound of the Monster stuff I've used, but I'm not really pleased with its durability. I've used the Monster 500 instrument cables - accidentally stepped on one on stage and it immediately broke open the circuit. That's why I said that Mogami, Canare, and many other cable manufacturers will do better than Monster. ---------------- try some proco cables they are awesome for guitar. Try the guardian series defender with the kevlar lining. Life time guarantee and virtually indestructable. Way more balanced from top to bottom, and more resolution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 Interesting bit at the bottom of that page about Lowe's/Home Depot speaker wire... All inexpensive wires are not the same, However. This wire at the right is sold as speaker wire by such places as Home Depot and Lowes. It sells for 33 cents/foot. It has transparent insulation and is 12-gauge. It is much less expensive than the brand names. It does not have any coding to identify one of the wires for proper phasing. I had some of this wire for about 6 months and noticed it was turning color. Now it has turned a very pronounced green on the surface of the copper wire indicating a chemical interaction with the insulation and the copper. A new piece of wire is at the right for comparison. Although the wire may not corrode further, it doesn't inspire confidence, particularly if the insulation comes close to the connecting terminals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted January 24, 2004 Share Posted January 24, 2004 ---------------- try some proco cables they are awesome for guitar. Try the guardian series defender with the kevlar lining. Life time guarantee and virtually indestructable. Way more balanced from top to bottom, and more resolution. ---------------- Sounds good - but I play bass... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 Whats the difference? Wouldn't you use the same intrument cable as you would for bass and guitar? Seriously even the cheaper line proco out performs alot of other cables. The metallica boys use them for all stage aplications. But the kevlar is nice because i am always putting my cable through war. Just some friendly advice i am actually more of a guitar tone fanatic than stereo equipment but stereo and home theater comes in a close second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 ---------------- On 1/27/2004 1:57:54 AM wheelman wrote: Whats the difference? Wouldn't you use the same intrument cable as you would for bass and guitar? Seriously even the cheaper line proco out performs alot of other cables. The metallica boys use them for all stage aplications. But the kevlar is nice because i am always putting my cable through war. Just some friendly advice i am actually more of a guitar tone fanatic than stereo equipment but stereo and home theater comes in a close second. ---------------- Sorry, used the wrong emoticon. I was merely poking at the "for guitar" portion of your sentence. Yes, I've heard all the rubbish about solid-core transmitting LF better, but I don't buy into it. I'll have to give the ProCos a shot. I've had good luck with Horizon, but have been intending to explore some other cable options to see which ones I prefer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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