sheltie dave Posted January 26, 2004 Share Posted January 26, 2004 I'm looking for a replacement EV woofer or equivalent from the era for my new '59 shorthorn. Any help would be appreciated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted January 26, 2004 Share Posted January 26, 2004 Couldn't you have the original reconed? Or do you prefer a different woofer altogether. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltie dave Posted January 26, 2004 Author Share Posted January 26, 2004 My assumption is the driver is kaput. There is a noticable buzz and muffled distortion at all volume levels. The speaker physically is beautiful, with no tears, disclorations, or other defects. William has cascaded an output from an Adcom amp into a Mac 2100, and was really horsing the Adcom through a set of Wharfdales when he heard a pop and buzz, and suddenly realized he had the Mac on, which powered the Shorty If I can find a replacement I would be happy, as I could keep the period authenticity going and I could get the driver repaired without time being pressing. The K43 i have a spare of still needs the magnet reattached and it is normally run with the crossover point at 600 hz rather than 1000 hz. There would be an octave missing with this transplant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted January 26, 2004 Share Posted January 26, 2004 Dave, when the driver is reconed all the internal parts are replaced. The drive will be as good as new when complete. Cheaper as well. Try Simply Speakers in FL or similar place, reconing should only be around $65 to get it back to original performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted January 26, 2004 Share Posted January 26, 2004 ---------------- On 1/26/2004 1:02:08 PM sheltie dave wrote: My assumption is the driver is kaput. There is a noticable buzz and muffled distortion at all volume levels. The speaker physically is beautiful, with no tears, disclorations, or other defects. . . . If I can find a replacement I would be happy, as I could keep the period authenticity going and I could get the driver repaired without time being pressing. The K43 i have a spare of still needs the magnet reattached and it is normally run with the crossover point at 600 hz rather than 1000 hz. There would be an octave missing with this transplant ---------------- Dave, I may have what you're looking for, unless you want to do reconing. However, I'm not sure what to do about price vis-a-vis my cost. The story: a thread, "ebay dumpster find" surfaced here a few months ago -- someone had found a couple of non-klipsch cabinets all broken up in a dumpster, with a K-Ortho-15 driver-crossover system in each, and he was parting out the drivers and crossover. The woofers were 15WKs (this is partly why I asked you earlier if yours was a 15WK), one with a tear in the cone near the basket rim. The woofer ad and pics, including a pic of the tear, is still on Ebay, at No. 3061357551. I snared the two woofers for $305.02 (not more than $2 over the next lower bid!) plus $38.82 shipping, knowing that one had to be reconed. I subsequently was referred by EV to, and spoke with, someone in Michigan who recones EV speakers. She said that reconing kits for 15Ws and 15WKs are, of course, long unavailable, and she would have to use "generic" reconing cones and parts. She could recone with either a standard voice coil or a 4-ohm coil "for horn only." I have NO idea how close to the original that comes -- do you, Frzn? I and a colleague hooked up the good 15WK last week, first in open air and comparing with a K-33E that's hanging around here, and then installing it in one of my K-horns and comparing with the other. The results were unequivocal: the 15WK had much higher output, from the deep bass at the bottom to the top of its extended middle range. The clarity as well as extension was very impressive. However, it was out of balance with the rest of my K-horn, so I had no inclination to try to use it myself -- I guess I spent over $300 just to satisfy my curiosity! But, I believe that your point above, that you should have a period 15WK in order to keep the authenticity, is on target. Klipsch products of that era with the 15WK, IMHO, had a richness and fullness that was hard to capture again, and I think you'd have more than a hole in a narrow range if you put in another woofer. In any case your Shorty's system and crossover were balanced for the 15WK's output. I would be happy to ship it to you to see for yourself without any commitment from you to buy. Again, I have no idea how much a reconing would change what you have now -- in fact, I would be VERY interested in what others think. Frzn?? After all, I have another 15WK that may only need reconing to be perfectly good. Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted January 26, 2004 Share Posted January 26, 2004 ---------------- On 1/26/2004 2:34:11 PM larryclare wrote: ---------------- On 1/26/2004 1:02:08 PM sheltie dave wrote: I and a colleague hooked up the good 15WK last week, first in open air and comparing with a K-33E that's hanging around here, and then installing it in one of my K-horns and comparing with the other. The results were unequivocal: the 15WK had much higher output, from the deep bass at the bottom to the top of its extended middle range. The clarity as well as extension was very impressive. However, it was out of balance with the rest of my K-horn, so I had no inclination to try to use it myself -- I guess I spent over $300 just to satisfy my curiosity! But, I believe that your point above, that you should have a period 15WK in order to keep the authenticity, is on target. Klipsch products of that era with the 15WK, IMHO, had a richness and fullness that was hard to capture again, and I think you'd have more than a hole in a narrow range if you put in another woofer. In any case your Shorty's system and crossover were balanced for the 15WK's output. I would be happy to ship it to you to see for yourself without any commitment from you to buy. Again, I have no idea how much a reconing would change what you have now -- in fact, I would be VERY interested in what others think. Frzn?? After all, I have another 15WK that may only need reconing to be perfectly good. Larry ---------------- I, of course am that colleage who a/b'd the 15WK to the K-33E with Larry. No question that the 15WK had a deeper, richer, fuller sound than the K-33E. Too bad for Larry that it really is not a match for his k-horns. I don't think the crossovers (AK-4s) are right and of course there is the problem of having the 2nd woofer reconed to match the sound of the good one (may not be possible). Dave, This may be your best chance to snag a very hard to find woofer that exactly matches your speaker and it's in beautiful condition. If I were you, I'd buy them both if he's willing to part with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltie dave Posted January 26, 2004 Author Share Posted January 26, 2004 Larry, mine is in perfect shape other than the driver or voice coil section being shot. Just so I'm not speaking without knowledge, an audio engineer friend will take a look-see tonight to confirm my thoughts. It sounds like you have two WKs with drivers that are fine and one bad cone, while I have one with a bad driver but a good cone. How easy is it to swap a driver, or are they wax sealed at the back of the bottom apex there? If the conversion is straightforward, we could do a ship swap and I could include money to balance the swap. I will also talk to John Albright, because he is talking about buying or building a shorty. I think you were hearing the difference between a 16 ohm woofer that is advertised as going from 55 hz to 1000 hz w/in 3 dB, vs a 4 to 8 ohm woofer rated at 65 hz to 600 hz w/in 3dB. The older woofer construction was far superior as far as reproducible spectrum. Also Larry, when I was in the Navy, I had some deep conversations with the graybeard Navy EE sonar engineer. He applied a 360 degree "breakage" rule that went like this. Eyeballing the tear, estimate how many degrees it covers of the full circle. 90 degrees would be a quarter, 45 degrees would be an eighth, etc. However many degrees the tear covers, add five degrees on either side to be conservative, and that will be your total signal loss. You could read up on fiberglass and wax glue impregnation on internet websites and do a reasonable job for next to nothing. If you have a ten degree tear, then the worst case loss would be 20 % of your signal if you repaired it yourself - against the 50% or greater output loss you and Gary heard using the 4 ohm K33. I haven't repaired any "speakers" since the Navy days - and the ones I did repair cost about half a million apiece. Due to that EE training me on a gundecking speaker technique, we saved the government about $3.5 million in replacements. I got to hand upside down down doing the repairs for about three hours, off and on. Yours would be easier! PM me and I'll give you a ring at your convenience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted January 26, 2004 Share Posted January 26, 2004 ---------------- On 1/26/2004 4:49:07 PM sheltie dave wrote: Larry, mine is in perfect shape other than the driver or voice coil section being shot. Just so I'm not speaking without knowledge, an audio engineer friend will take a look-see tonight to confirm my thoughts. It sounds like you have two WKs with drivers that are fine and one bad cone, while I have one with a bad driver but a good cone. How easy is it to swap a driver, or are they wax sealed at the back of the bottom apex there? If the conversion is straightforward, we could do a ship swap and I could include money to balance the swap. I will also talk to John Albright, because he is talking about buying or building a shorty. I think you were hearing the difference between a 16 ohm woofer that is advertised as going from 55 hz to 1000 hz w/in 3 dB, vs a 4 to 8 ohm woofer rated at 65 hz to 600 hz w/in 3dB. The older woofer construction was far superior as far as reproducible spectrum. Also Larry, when I was in the Navy, I had some deep conversations with the graybeard Navy EE sonar engineer. He applied a 360 degree "breakage" rule that went like this. Eyeballing the tear, estimate how many degrees it covers of the full circle. 90 degrees would be a quarter, 45 degrees would be an eighth, etc. However many degrees the tear covers, add five degrees on either side to be conservative, and that will be your total signal loss. You could read up on fiberglass and wax glue impregnation on internet websites and do a reasonable job for next to nothing. If you have a ten degree tear, then the worst case loss would be 20 % of your signal if you repaired it yourself - against the 50% or greater output loss you and Gary heard using the 4 ohm K33. I haven't repaired any "speakers" since the Navy days - and the ones I did repair cost about half a million apiece. Due to that EE training me on a gundecking speaker technique, we saved the government about $3.5 million in replacements. I got to hand upside down down doing the repairs for about three hours, off and on. Yours would be easier! PM me and I'll give you a ring at your convenience. ---------------- Dave, I'll e-mail you shortly. The tear is radial, not circumferential, but it ain't much of a tear. However, I had thought that leakage through the tear would be the main problem in using the speaker. You can see the size and nature of the tear in the Ebay pic per my first post. The 15WK is a 3.2- or 3.6-ohm speaker, not 16 ohms. Although reconing has been the only answer I've got so far, I haven't been convinced it's the only way to go, especially with such a small tear. I suppose that might be more true below 500 Hz in a high-compression horn throat than as a direct radiator going up to 1,000, however. Very informative! I look forward to hearing what can be done. Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted January 26, 2004 Share Posted January 26, 2004 "There is a noticable buzz and muffled distortion at all volume levels" It could be some dirt or some crud in the voice coil gap. Does it rub when you push the cone in slightly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltie dave Posted January 26, 2004 Author Share Posted January 26, 2004 It is rubbing at all times when you push it, Mike, predominately on the right side. I'm glad Fini and Henry aren't reading this thread, as we'd shortly be in the gutter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mungkiman Posted January 26, 2004 Share Posted January 26, 2004 Dave, Jensen P15LL or University C15W would also sound damn good. They are also 4 Ohm woofers, and I believe the Jensens (like a Stephens 103LX2) would be period correct. Actually, I guess I don't know when Klipsch stopped using Jensen woofers. I have heard though, that PWK wanted to use University woofers but couldn't make the deal. Rumor? Best of luck. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted January 26, 2004 Share Posted January 26, 2004 Jensen P15LL? Bummer, Dan just ditched one of those with the RP-201 horn and x-over network on Ebay. $325, probably a little more than you wanted to spend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltie dave Posted January 26, 2004 Author Share Posted January 26, 2004 Yea, the University looks like it is the more common and cheaper than the Jensen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mungkiman Posted January 26, 2004 Share Posted January 26, 2004 Dave, I have a University "Shorthorn" that came with C15W woofer, T-30 mid driver with Cobreflex horn, and HF-206 tweeter with T-60 driver. The Cobreflex doesn't mate well to the motorboard, and the T-30 isn't my favorite driver, but it is favorably comparable to my Klipsch Shorties. Food for thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted January 27, 2004 Share Posted January 27, 2004 Dave, you should have a PM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaptnBob Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 A.) I have three different 15-WKs from my Shorthorn "Just Try and Find Matching Woofers" project. I don't really think I'll ever need them again and might be persuaded to sell at least two of them off to good homes. They're in St. Louis at the moment. B.) Why don't I ever find big Klipsch speakers in dumpsters? All I've ever seen are Bose... C.) Check to see if the spider (the orange accordion-like thing at tip of the cone) has been knocked loose. D.) I've had excellent luck repairing tears in woofer cones with a glue called "Seal-All." It's designed for fixing rubber hoses and doesn't dry up and get brittle. I'd fix the tear before using the driver, as you don't want it to spread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dale W Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 Dave , where did you find a shorty ?? http://www.hifilit.com/hifilit/klipsch/1957m.jpg I've drewled over this page many an hour . I've been keeping my eyes open for a lot of years trying to locate a decent pair. Lucky bugger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltie dave Posted January 30, 2004 Author Share Posted January 30, 2004 Dale, I stumbled across one here in St. Louis while taking a look at an old McIntosh preamp the gentleman was selling. He started telling stories while we listened to the preamp, and one thing led to another. I got a tour of the house, and he showed me all five tube systems he has. Once again, a love of animals seemed to be the key. He has - don't laugh- a Pomeranian/German Shephard mix. For the *****'s sake, I hope the pop was the pomeranian doing the dirty deed on a ladder... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banned Posted January 30, 2004 Share Posted January 30, 2004 Either that, or it was one hurtin' female Pomeranian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltie dave Posted January 30, 2004 Author Share Posted January 30, 2004 Yea, talk about getting pounded into the dirt... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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