lancestorm Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 Hi folks, I am going to be getting started on actually finishing my basement (future home theater-only room). For that I am going to do pre-wiring for in-wall and for a 7.1 setup. I know that Monster is not highly regarded by quite a few folks on the forum, mainly because of what you get for the price. I have a connection to get it at a very good discount, and think it would be a good deal in price. I am imagining that I will need 200 feet (two 100 foot spools) because I have a 14 x 20 room. 200 seems like about the right amount. I have a choice here: Monster XP, Monster XP-CI and Monster XPHP-CI. I cannot decide what is really needed for my application. I want to say that the Monster XP-CI would be what I should be looking at because I think it is made for In-wall, whereas standard XP is not. I am not sure that XPHP-CI would give me that much benefit over XP-CI, but I am not sure. That would be my first question. My next question would be regarding the electric wiring. Since they will be run near speaker wires, is there a protection on wires to look for to try to avoid the interference? And lastly (whew): When I cut the strands, should I make them all of equal length? I wasn't sure how important that was because as I recall receivers set it up regarding distances from the speaker to you, not a matter of how long each cord length is. I hope it never assumes they are all equal. Regardless, what are your opinions on this? Would it be IDEAL to have same length. Or does it really not matter. Thanks a lot bunch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 I can't answer all your?'s but since these will be inwall its best to get the best you can afford.On the proximity to electric I would try to stay away at least a foot or two from electric.On the length as a rule of thumb same length(or close) is good when its practical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skonopa Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 ---------------- On 2/2/2004 4:53:37 PM lancestorm wrote: I know that Monster is not highly regarded by quite a few folks on the forum, mainly because of what you get for the price. I have a connection to get it at a very good discount, and think it would be a good deal in price. I am imagining that I will need 200 feet (two 100 foot spools) because I have a 14 x 20 room. 200 seems like about the right amount. ---------------- I personally think Monster is perfectly fine, and I do use it in my system. If you can get a good deal on it, then go ahead and get it. ---------------- I have a choice here: Monster XP, Monster XP-CI and Monster XPHP-CI. I cannot decide what is really needed for my application. I want to say that the Monster XP-CI would be what I should be looking at because I think it is made for In-wall, whereas standard XP is not. I am not sure that XPHP-CI would give me that much benefit over XP-CI, but I am not sure. That would be my first question. ---------------- You will need the "CI" version for in-wall use. I think "CI" stands for "custom installation". If the price difference between the XP-CI and XPHP-CI ends up being only a few dollars, then I'd say go for the XPHP. If the price difference is pretty significant, than it is probably not worth it. TO ADD: Since this is going to be "in-wall", it may be very difficult, if not impossible, to "upgrade" your speaker wire, espeically if any of it goes bad, so it may be worth it to get the best possible quality that you can afford that is available. ---------------- My next question would be regarding the electric wiring. Since they will be run near speaker wires, is there a protection on wires to look for to try to avoid the interference? ---------------- Your "connection" may be able to answer this for you, if he/they are a custom installation outfit. I don't know the answer myself. I would hope the cable that is made for in-wall installation is sufficiently insulated to prevent any interference from other wires in the wall. Again, it many not be a bad idea to call a local installer and ask (or even Monster themselves). ---------------- And lastly (whew): When I cut the strands, should I make them all of equal length? I wasn't sure how important that was because as I recall receivers set it up regarding distances from the speaker to you, not a matter of how long each cord length is. I hope it never assumes they are all equal. Regardless, what are your opinions on this? Would it be IDEAL to have same length. Or does it really not matter. ---------------- I would imagine in a perfect world, it would be ideal to have them all the same length. Instead, I would concentrate on proper speaker placement more then worrying about if the runs of speaker wire will be all the same length. It may be ideal to have the same length, but don't compromise proper speaker placement just for the sake of having the same length of cable runs. I think a properly setup and calibrated system will give way more benefit than if the wires where the same length. I know my speaker wire runs are not all the same length to each position of the rear (I use speaker cabling, as oppose to bulk wiring, for the front three speakers), and it doesn't seem to effect the sound any. If they were secretly switched to the same length without me knowing, I highly doubt I would be able to tell any difference. I just ran the shortest lengths that I can get away with to each speaker (allowing a little bit for "slack"), figuring shorter wires means less impedence, and thus in the end, better sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prodj101 Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 I can tell you you'd be better off with MIT cables. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 If the wire is going in the wall, it will need to meet the requirements of your local electrical code, if any. Cable with a CL-3 rating should me the requirements. IMHO you will do as well with architectural speaker cable from PartsExpress for around $.20/ft. as you will with Monster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 XPHP-CI is a sham - for that extra $0.35 per foot, all you get is the "Time Correct" windings. It's still the same gauge as XP. We've been down that path before. It's hooey. The XP-CI is reasonably good wire, especially if you're paying BB employee cost (which is, if I remember correctly, about $0.50 per foot) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted February 2, 2004 Share Posted February 2, 2004 ---------------- On 2/2/2004 8:12:00 PM Malcolm wrote: If the wire is going in the wall, it will need to meet the requirements of your local electrical code, if any. Cable with a CL-3 rating should me the requirements. IMHO you will do as well with architectural speaker cable from PartsExpress for around $.20/ft. as you will with Monster. ---------------- Actually, there is a very tangible difference: XP-CI is twisted-pair inside the jacket. I doubt seriously that Parts Express bothered with such fundamental RFI/EMI rejection technology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 The architectural cable I got from PartsExpress for $.18/ft. is twisted pair. Guess there is not as much difference as you assume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T2K Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 I would recommend the cheap stuff too, it will sound just as bad as a Munster product. JMO. Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 ---------------- On 2/3/2004 12:24:52 AM Malcolm wrote: The architectural cable I got from PartsExpress for $.18/ft. is twisted pair. Guess there is not as much difference as you assume. ---------------- I stand corrected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
picky Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 lancestorm: In addition to the good advice the other members have given you, skonopa has given you some very detailed, good advice that I tend to agree with. I too, really have no real issues with a particular wire brand. As it turned out, my Klipsch dealer gave me a nice deal on some Tributaries 12-gauge wire. I bought and installed about 250-feet of the stuff in our 10.5 x 19-foot room to power our 7.1 speaker system. I used unequal wire lengths and I have noticed no issues or problems at all. The Klipsch Reference Series sound awesome at any volume! skonopa also points out a very valid concern regarding the future upgrading of permanently installed speaker (or other) cables. I think I may have a resolution for you: Available at places such as Home Depot, 'Smurf Tube' (as it's called) can be used as conduit to run your speaker cables within the walls and ceilings of your room. The blue convoluted, flexible tubing is available in 10-foot lengths with 1/2" and 3/4" inside diameters. I recommend the 3/4" diameter, which is what I have used. Plastic connectors and couplers are availalbe for joining two or more lengths together. Ends can be inserted into junction boxes using couplings and fastened inplace with a large nut. The tubing will allow you to do future upgrades with little issue. As for running speaker (and video-feed) wiring adjacent house-current wiring, I tried to maintain a distance of at least 1-foot in parallel runs and any time I needed to cross the house current wiring, I did so at 90-degree angles. The result is that there is no discernable hum or noise in our audio and no noticible scan lines in the projector image. I hope this helps. Our theater is about one month away from final completeion although we are already using it. We can't wait to be finished! Best of luck on your room! -Picky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lancestorm Posted February 3, 2004 Author Share Posted February 3, 2004 Thanks for the replies so far. I am getting a pretty good deal on the spools (urrr...I think I am, am I?). Approximately $0.37/ft for XP-CI. The XPHP-CI is $0.59/ft. I think the price is pretty dang good for the XP-CI. I guess I will have to contact Monster to see about electrical interference. I think I will get two spools to ensure equal lengths on all 7 strands of wire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 ---------------- On 2/3/2004 9:31:28 AM lancestorm wrote: I think I will get two spools to ensure equal lengths on all 7 strands of wire. ---------------- Unless one of the strands is going to be over 200 feet, there is absolutely no benefit to making them all the same length, except to the speaker wire manufacturer, who gets more of your money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gcoker Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 My advise would be when you run it along your wall studs don't stape it tight agaist the stud. keep it loose so you can in the future pull othe wire through. I placed my speaker wire on the opposite side of the stud as the electrical wire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dome Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 ---------------- On 2/2/2004 4:53:37 PM lancestorm wrote: And lastly (whew): When I cut the strands, should I make them all of equal length? I wasn't sure how important that was because as I recall receivers set it up regarding distances from the speaker to you, not a matter of how long each cord length is. I hope it never assumes they are all equal. Regardless, what are your opinions on this? Would it be IDEAL to have same length. Or does it really not matter. Thanks a lot bunch. ---------------- I think the equal lengths thing is pretty much a moot point for most home applications. Electricity travels down a wire at well over the speed of sound. Basically, speaker placement is a far bigger issue than the length of the wire. It would probalby take hundreds and hundreds of feet in the difference of the wire to cause an audible difference... but a few feet in speaker placement probalby will cause a problem. The distance settings most recievers have are speaker distance, not wire length. Basically, if you have to put a 25-35ft run to the rear of your room, I wouldnt bother just coiling 25-35ft in the wall for the 10ft or so you might need for your mains. Think of ceiling lights in a house (if you have them). When you turn your lights on, do they all turn on at once or do they turn on in succession? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 ---------------- On 2/3/2004 6:14:30 PM Dome wrote: I think the equal lengths thing is pretty much a moot point for most home applications. Electricity travels down a wire at well over the speed of sound. ---------------- For the record, electricity travels down a wire at (depending on the quality of the dielectric) anywhere from 50-95% of the speed of light. This is why you'd have to have a run of gargantuan proportions (coupled with a 6 inch run) before you heard anything remotely resembling phase problems from different wire lengths. We had this discussion in the General forum a while back. I was schooled mightily. The smallest left/right delay time difference I recall anyone being able to perceive in our little casual test was 10 milliseconds. When I generated these delays, I checked them with a graphical spectrum analyzer, and it only reported frequency response differences in waveforms as small as 2ms. In order for there to be even a 1ms delay (inaudible in all our testing) in your signal between speakers, even assuming that the cable is ultra-cheapo and so the signal only travels at 1/2 the speed of light (or 149,896,229 meters per second) you'd still need a single speaker wire run of approximately 1,500 meters. Hence, it doesn't mean jack squat diddly if your back speaker run is 50 feet and your center channel run is 5 feet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIbor Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 HI I just finsihed my basement and I used the monster xp wire. I would just keep the speaker wires about a foot or two away for any electrical wiring. Be sure to put a couple extra wires for the front of the room and the back of the room for any future connections. The quick connect plates are real nice and give it a real nice custom install look. Be sure to get more than enough wire I ran out of wire two times, and I had to run out and get more. I cut three of my wires in the wrong place(were there was no visible indication to which was the postive wire, so pull enough through were you can see the monster writing on the wire. Good Luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 ---------------- On 2/3/2004 6:59:33 PM TIbor wrote: HI I just finsihed my basement and I used the monster xp wire. I would just keep the speaker wires about a foot or two away for any electrical wiring. Be sure to put a couple extra wires for the front of the room and the back of the room for any future connections. The quick connect plates are real nice and give it a real nice custom install look. Be sure to get more than enough wire I ran out of wire two times, and I had to run out and get more. I cut three of my wires in the wrong place(were there was no visible indication to which was the postive wire, so pull enough through were you can see the monster writing on the wire. Good Luck! ---------------- I pray you never have a fire, dude. Your insurance company could easily deny your claim when they find out you ran non-fire-resistant wire through the walls. That's the whole principle behind CL3 rated speaker wire - its UL listed fire resistant jacket. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIbor Posted February 3, 2004 Share Posted February 3, 2004 True...but my house is fifty years old and those wires are pretty clear from any electiral wires..Besides seeing how my hours was wired already that probably is the least of my worries...When I bought the house they had a 100 ft extension cord snaked through the yard for the pool pump!! Now that is a fire-electrical hazard and the town co guy nver said a word! Go figure! Thanks for the input! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brap Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 Used MIT for my Khorns and CTLCR with impedance matching on one end. After burn in of about 24 hours -- sounded great. Ran mine up over the combination ceiling tiles and drywall instead of behind the wall, except in one instance. For that wall, made it 7" from the foundation wall to run electrical and signal wiring. This way when I moved, I could pull it all out, which I did. Rule of thumb -- 10% of your component pricing should be spent on connections. This includes speaker wiring. I spent $125.00 for each wire for the three speakers. These were in 35ft. lengths. I figured at that time I had the $$ and I'll never have to buy wire again for the Khorns. Withy the impedance matching, it won't matter what length there is as long as the amp sees the same load. good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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