jorjen Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 What do you guys think about these plans. I know there have been others before and maybe these have been around awhile too, but they look pretty good. Similar to the guy in Salem Oregon with the La Scala plans. I can do the work but have not really pursued it due to stories of incorrect dimensions/scales, etc.. Now I am seriously considering it. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3077179486&category=14993 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 I would like to know the legality of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkBK Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 I would too. I do remember plans for Khorns floating around back in the late '70's early 80's. It would be interesting to hear from the moderator on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jorjen Posted February 10, 2004 Author Share Posted February 10, 2004 That would be interesting to know. Did not even stop long enough to think of that side of the coin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 well...the "Klipsch Police" have not shown up at my door yet for posting dimensionally-corrected mid-70's era(AA network era) LaScala drawings on the forum a few times...and PWK actually DID sell plans for K-horns for a few bucks each back in the 1950's...for the do-it-yourselfers back then...he even offered up a component package that could be ordered after building the cabinets from the plans. Most of the plans you see on ebay are reprints of the ones sold by a west-coast company (speakerlab) back in the late 1960's to late 1970's, hough. When I worked there we got some of Speakerlab's LaScala knock-offs...the construction was shoddy at best, with nails shot out all over the place inside the doghouse...pizz-poor glue seams, etc! Yes, we tore em apart to see how good or bad a job they did building hem, then just walked away shaking our heads in disgust!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 well...the "Klipsch Police" have not shown up at my door yet for posting dimensionally-corrected mid-70's era(AA network era) LaScala drawings on the forum a few times...and PWK actually DID sell plans for K-horns for a few bucks each back in the 1950's...for the do-it-yourselfers back then...he even offered up a component package that could be ordered after building the cabinets from the plans. Most of the plans you see on ebay are reprints of the ones sold by a west-coast company (speakerlab) back in the late 1960's to late 1970's, though. When I worked there we got some of Speakerlab's LaScala knock-offs...the construction was shoddy at best, with nails shot out all over the place inside the doghouse...pizz-poor glue seams, etc! Yes, we tore em apart to see how good or bad a job they did building them, then just walked away shaking our heads in disgust!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 2 things to be concerned about: PATENTS and COPYRIGHTS Plans to anything cannot be PATENTED. Only processes, materials, products, formulas, and methods can be patented. Plans being PRINTED MATERIAL fall under the COPYRIGHT laws, and only under certain conditions. Copyrights do exactly that - they protect the OWNER OF THE RIGHT TO MAKE COPIES of the printed material from being the printed material COPIED or REPRODUCED without permission. The Klipschorn PATENT expired in 1965. Patents last 20 years at most; sometimes less, depending. There is no PATENT infringement involved in selling plans for Klipschorns on the internet as the plans themselves are not covered by the patent, nor is there copyright infringement (covers printed material only) as they are MOST LIKELY not a COPY or REPRODUCTION of Klipsch-produced printed plans (they would have to say KLIPSCH on the plans and also be COPYRIGHTED to KLIPSCH along with the year of copyright AND be current). Even ORIGINAL Klipsch-produced plans can be sold legally, even if currently copyrighted -YOU JUST CAN'T COPY (I.E., REPRINT OR REPRODUCE) THEM AND RESELL THE COPIES IF THEY ARE COPYRIGHTED AND THE COPYRIGHT IS CURRENT. Copyrights last longer than patents and can be renewed where patents cannot, so that possible copyright infringement would be the only possible problem. Unless they actually are actual copies of Klipsch-printed and Klipsch copyrighted plans and the copyright has not expired (which I would doubt), there can be no legal issues with this. I am unaware of any plans sold commercially by Klipsch after 1975, or at least I was told then by Klipsch-CO that Khorn plans were "unavailable". I am not sure of the copyright "length" in that copyrights can be renewed a number of times. Also copyrights do not require the government to issue or grant anything. Simply affixing the ©notice, year of copyright and who the copyright belongs to is enough on the printed document in question. Same goes for the Speakerlab (Seattle) plans which I believe are still available from Speakerlab who is still in business. They are copyrighted (my copy says 1978) so REPRODUCING a copy is indeed copyright infringement, but selling (or reselling) a Speakerlab-printed and copyrighted set is perfectly OK as you did not REPRODUCE a copy of said plans without permission. Does this make sense? P.S. Speakerlab is a LATE 1970's company that is still around founded well after the Khorn patent expired. This rumor surrounding Speakerlab and Klipsch really needs to go away. There were NEVER any lawsuits concerning the Speakerlab "K" which was a comercially available Klipschorn knockoff offered in either finished or kit form. I wish they still sold them! Klipsch, Speakerlab plans or anybody else's corner horn plans are perfectly ok to buy unless they are unauthorized copies of currently copyrighted plans owned by someone else... DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackBurner Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Patents and copyrights aside ( mean nothing to me ) several of my friends have tried there hand at home made k-horns, results have been less than great . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Damn, I would like to build some. Could never listen to them however... Could never afford the gear to put in them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackBurner Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 ---------------- On 2/10/2004 10:31:19 PM m00n wrote: Damn, I would like to build some. Could never listen to them however... Could never afford the gear to put in them ---------------- The klipschorn is a beast all to itself , i would strongly recomend a long audition before any purchase on this level . They have a love hate relationship in the audio world, just make sure your on the right side before buying . I owned oris 150 w/scala bass bin before buying klipschorns. Horns can be wonderfull or horrible depending on _____________ ? the list is long . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOADEDTUNES Posted February 10, 2004 Share Posted February 10, 2004 Horns are different beast - true !! I'll add to that , there not for everyone or every room . But truely hard to beat when setup properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 ---------------- On 2/10/2004 10:41:02 PM BackBurner wrote: The klipschorn is a beast all to itself , i would strongly recomend a long audition before any purchase on this level . They have a love hate relationship in the audio world, just make sure your on the right side before buying . I owned oris 150 w/scala bass bin before buying klipschorns. ---------------- Yes I know. I had a set of belles and sold them for various reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tzehbe Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 Hi, it seems that the offer is illegal. The picture are taken from Erik Forkers hompage www.volvotreter.de without allowance. They are from his DIY project. I mailed Erik and he mailed ebay. He?s still waiting for an answer. Erik has done his own drawings in metric dimensions using autocad. The plan is downloadable from his homepage. The picture from the plan schown on ebay seems to be a copy from the speakerlab plan, what I think is illegal, too. Perhaps you take Eriks plan it back to american style dimensions. Thomas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krustyoldsarge Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 The folks who sold me my Heresies back in '74 told me that this was the issue that made the Klipsch Khorn plans go away. Uneven assembly, the wrong glues, etc. Big headache for PWK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snarfred Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 A reply to your question about the plans for a Khorn. I have purchased these plans from the man in Oregon. I found them to detailed and illustrated well enough that I was able to build two bass bins in one weekend. These bins have the proper drivers from Klipsch installed therein. The units have been tested and found to be operating in the proper levels indicated by the Klipsch perameters. IF you don't fool with the measurements and you don't start ammending a little here and a little there, there is really no reason why they could not be built properly and also function properly. I've had a ton of different bass speakers and am thoroughly enthralled with the ones I built. I wonder if the "purists" are concerned with a 1/8" here and there and if that really makes a hill of beans difference. All environments dictate different listening ideals and I am sure that some speakers no matter what, ill placed, or any variety of ills can make even the greatest units sound like garbage. That's my two cents worth. And on the issue of plans legality!!!! If Paul originally sold his plans for DIY's then who is to say that the plans curently out there are not copies of those plans that I got from my next door neighbour who bought them on the "50s. That's my 2 cents worth on this building and plans issue. Thank you, and don't let someone rent space in your head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBusa Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 I also emailed the seller and told him the copyrighted owner of the pics does not want him using them. he replied ... send me the copyrite # so I can verify He also snagged the finished khorn picture from the klipsch website. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny dB Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 snarfred, You were able to build 2 bass bins in 1 weekend? You must be some kind of wood working genuis! Took me a week to do the tops and I about crapped my pants when I attempted to build the bass bins. Do you have any pics? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snarfred Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 Johnny dB. Not a lie, I only built the bass bins. I am not a woodworking genius but mereley attesting to the fact that the plans "work" if followed carefuly enough. A good table saw and a good rip fence for cutting the mitres is a must, glue, some screws and some caulking. I will post some pics but where do I do this???? Thanks, Snarfred Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 There is a benefit to DIY Khorns besides saving money... I built a pair derived from Speakerlab plans and I love 'em although they are still just plain old plywood. Couldn't live without them now. Since they are DIY, I change drivers, crossovers, and generally mix and match alot. I built mine in the dead of winter on a covered back porch in about a week. If I owned a genuine pair of Klipschorns, I would be afraid to change them or modify them at all as they are beautiful pieces of furniture as well as an outstanding example of form following function. However, the ugly, fun DIY versions are a tweaker's delight... and everyone who visits admits, although they may not want a pair of plywood jobs in THEIR living room, the ugly things are the nicest sounding speakers that they have ever heard. Damn the torpedoes and full speed ahead... That's my advise. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m00n Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 Now if I recall right, the plans are just for the bass bin. There is NO top included in the plans right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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