Cleve Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 Ahh, that's a lovely turntable - when I was in high school, Thorens was one of those legendary, 'unattainable' names in high fi - 'unattainable' for those with limited youthful incomes that is. I used to fantasize about a Thorens sitting on the shelf in my room - the best I could manage in those days was a completely manual Tannoy-Micro belt drive. How things change with time - hard to believe one could buy such a fantastic performer for 'almost nothing'. Ahh well, I've moved on to CD's and Audio DVD's - I guess there's no turning (nor looking) back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 yep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted February 13, 2004 Share Posted February 13, 2004 Mr.P, even PWK called stereo 'diluted'. With a good & proper system, playback in mono actually has some advantages. Even some very well known 'reviewers' in the hi-fi slicks still prefer mono even though everything they review & provide opinions on is 'stereo' (or nowadays, multi-channel). And, IMHO, 99% of the recording studios out there have absolute S*** for speakers & listening/monitoring environment compared to what many of us are used to listening to. Certainly not up to par with what I have in my home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marksdad Posted February 14, 2004 Share Posted February 14, 2004 including cd? it best's cd easily, to me cd's are a bit sterile, whereas lp's seem to have a rich full warm presentation to them. i am still trying to get my finger on it, but lp's are just more life like, more seductive. and congrats on your new toy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wardsweb Posted February 14, 2004 Share Posted February 14, 2004 Right with ya on the vinyl BB - Rega P3 using a RB250 arm fitted with a RB300 stainless stub and weight and an Audio Note IQ-2 cart. Nothing like vinyl with tubes and horns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted February 14, 2004 Share Posted February 14, 2004 I guess that Sakuma-san is not crazy after all. He only listens to mono systems http://www10.big.or.jp/~dh/ . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleve Posted February 14, 2004 Share Posted February 14, 2004 ---------------- On 2/14/2004 8:51:03 AM marksdad wrote: including cd? it best's cd easily, to me cd's are a bit sterile, whereas lp's seem to have a rich full warm presentation to them. i am still trying to get my finger on it, but lp's are just more life like, more seductive. and congrats on your new toy ---------------- The thing that always bothered me with LP's - the innermost tracks sounded gritty, flat and distorted somehow. And I had a variety of turntables over the years - a Tannoy Micro manual, a Technics semi-auto, a Mitsubishi linear-tracking and finally a Dual semi-auto with a variety of cartridges - Shure, Audio Technica, etc. The linear tracking Mitsu seemed to sound the best on the inner grooves, but I could still hear a grainy-ness - I wondered if it had something to do with the needle covering less distance per second on the inner grooves vs the outer grooves. CD's totally liberated me from that problem - as well as ticks, pops, rumble, and audible signal to noise ratios Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted February 14, 2004 Share Posted February 14, 2004 You're not imagining it, Cleve, inner groove distortion is a reality. The songs on the outer portions of an LP can sound much better than songs toward the end of a side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted February 14, 2004 Share Posted February 14, 2004 As another note on this subject, I've been using & experimenting with '3 channel' stereo for (yikes) 25 years (?). The initial premise here was to have a derived mono center speaker, used as a 'center fill', especially in 'wide-stage' stereo setup (as I have). However, one thing I've always found fascinating, is that (if properly set up), the 'mono' center channel actually adds depth & dimension to the sound stage, not just help stablize the "man on the flying trapeze" (as PWK put it) across a wider listening area. Furthermore, in recent years, I've discovered that (recording mix permitting), the mono center channel can often be turned up to the same volume as the flanking speakers. Almost as if IT is the primary speaker, with the flanking speakers simply helping to make the apparent stage a little wider from the mono center speaker. Kind of the reverse of what was originally intended. This is especially useful when you're not in the sweet spot. For instance, when there are 3 or 5 or more people in the room, sitting or standing, well off center, etc. Imaging is extremely stable, even when you are well off center and/or behind of or in front of the plane of the sweet spot. If you have a preamp with a simple panorama or blend control, this can be controlled even better. Ideally an 'audio imaging' control is best (allows completely independent blend, from full stereo to mono to reverse, for each channel). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aggie Klipsch Posted February 14, 2004 Share Posted February 14, 2004 Welcome to the Thorens madness. Finally got a new belt and cartridge and it sounds better than ever. Amazing for something that's 28 years old and can beat the pants off of CD. Try a Santana Half Speed or the Maxell Jazz Sampler. Another progressive jazz would be Return to Forever-Romantic Warrior or Jean Luc Ponty A Taste of Love, maybe just in a Valentines mood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny dB Posted February 14, 2004 Share Posted February 14, 2004 ---------------- On 2/11/2004 7:06:00 PM Allan Songer wrote: The Big Three: Miles Davis "Kind of Blue" Dave Brubeck "Time Out" Chet Baker "Chet Baker Sings" ---------------- Allan, Is that Chet Baker "Plays and Sings" or is that a different album? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleve Posted February 14, 2004 Share Posted February 14, 2004 ---------------- On 2/14/2004 10:48:46 AM paulparrot wrote: You're not imagining it, Cleve, inner groove distortion is a reality. The songs on the outer portions of an LP can sound much better than songs toward the end of a side. ---------------- Thank you, Paul. For nearly 30 years I've wondered if it was my imagination - no one else ever seemed to notice or mind it. I used to fiddle with the cartridge adjustments - anti-skating, etc. Regardless, I almost hated to listen to inner tracks of LP's. Even expensive CBS Master Label (or was it MasterWorks?) pressings seemed gritty on the inner grooves. Thanks again. Jim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted February 14, 2004 Share Posted February 14, 2004 ---------------- On 2/14/2004 8:23:26 PM Cleve wrote: ---------------- On 2/14/2004 10:48:46 AM paulparrot wrote: You're not imagining it, Cleve, inner groove distortion is a reality. The songs on the outer portions of an LP can sound much better than songs toward the end of a side. ---------------- Thank you, Paul. For nearly 30 years I've wondered if it was my imagination - no one else ever seemed to notice or mind it. I used to fiddle with the cartridge adjustments - anti-skating, etc. Regardless, I almost hated to listen to inner tracks of LP's. Even expensive CBS Master Label (or was it MasterWorks?) pressings seemed gritty on the inner grooves. Thanks again. Jim ---------------- I didn't know that either. Maybe that explains why some songs on an lp sound better than the cd version and vice versa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted February 14, 2004 Share Posted February 14, 2004 ---------------- Allan, Is that Chet Baker "Plays and Sings" or is that a different album? ---------------- Different. "Sings and Plays" is Pacific Jazz 1202: http://image.allmusic.com/00/amg/cov200/dre900/e982/e98253oehi4.jpg "Chet Baker Sings" is Pacific Jazz 1222 http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B00005LA0Y.01.LZZZZZZZ.jpg This is a HUGE difference between these two LPs!! PJ1222 is one of the greatest jazz albums of all time, not only is Baker's singing FANTASTIC, but the solos from both he and Russ Freeman are among their best! PJ1202 with the schmaltzy string arrangements and less than stellar work from the usually terrific Bud Shank and Russ Freeman wouldn't even rank in my top 1000!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny dB Posted February 15, 2004 Share Posted February 15, 2004 I was actually refering to this one (see pic). I picked this one and the Miles Davis "Kind of Blue" lps today at the local music shop for $12.99 ea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted February 15, 2004 Share Posted February 15, 2004 That's a late 1960's "World Pacific" reissue. I can't remember if it's a reissue of 1202 or the HIDEOUS reissue of 1222 where they ADDED Joe Pass on guitar to "update" the sound. What are the song titles? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cleve Posted February 15, 2004 Share Posted February 15, 2004 ---------------- On 2/14/2004 8:41:35 PM garymd wrote: ---------------- On 2/14/2004 8:23:26 PM Cleve wrote: ---------------- On 2/14/2004 10:48:46 AM paulparrot wrote: You're not imagining it, Cleve, inner groove distortion is a reality. The songs on the outer portions of an LP can sound much better than songs toward the end of a side. ---------------- Thank you, Paul. For nearly 30 years I've wondered if it was my imagination - no one else ever seemed to notice or mind it. I used to fiddle with the cartridge adjustments - anti-skating, etc. Regardless, I almost hated to listen to inner tracks of LP's. Even expensive CBS Master Label (or was it MasterWorks?) pressings seemed gritty on the inner grooves. Thanks again. Jim ---------------- I didn't know that either. Maybe that explains why some songs on an lp sound better than the cd version and vice versa. ---------------- I had always thought the harshness I'd heard on inner tracks on LP's was due to tracking errors inherent in a non-linear tone arm. However, as I mentioned, I owned a linear tracking turntable for a time and I still heard it. Here's one (of many ) websites that explain the problem - this one is pretty straightforward and easy to understand; http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio1/onemusic/distribution/vinylp07.shtml Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny dB Posted February 15, 2004 Share Posted February 15, 2004 ---------------- On 2/15/2004 9:57:47 AM Allan Songer wrote: That's a late 1960's "World Pacific" reissue. I can't remember if it's a reissue of 1202 or the HIDEOUS reissue of 1222 where they ADDED Joe Pass on guitar to "update" the sound. What are the song titles? ---------------- Song Titles: But Not for ME Happy Little Sunbeam Look For The Silver Lining Tenderly I Get Along W/out You Very Well There's A Small Hotel Summertime There Will Never Be Another You I Fall In Love Too Easily My Funny Valentine My Buddy Bea's Flat I haven't opened it yet. Do you think I should return it, or is it worth the $13 bucks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted February 15, 2004 Share Posted February 15, 2004 Look like it's some from each. For $13 sealed how can you go wrong? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyKubicki Posted February 15, 2004 Share Posted February 15, 2004 The thing that always bothered me with LP's - the innermost tracks sounded gritty, flat and distorted somehow. And I had a variety of turntables over the years - a Tannoy Micro manual, a Technics semi-auto, a Mitsubishi linear-tracking and finally a Dual semi-auto with a variety of cartridges - Shure, Audio Technica, etc. The linear tracking Mitsu seemed to sound the best on the inner grooves, but I could still hear a grainy-ness - I wondered if it had something to do with the needle covering less distance per second on the inner grooves vs the outer grooves. I wish I had a scanner to show you a couple pics (from a book I have) of magnified grooves containing the same material, one recorded on the outer groove and the other on the inner groove. The recording was identical material, yet you could see a definate visible difference of the magnified grooves. Some of the HF content does not show up in the latter grooves. It's not your imagination. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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