RF-3IIs, I love them but they get harsh at high volumes.

[Pistol Pete]

I love the dynamic range the RF-3IIs give out at low to middle range volumes....but when I crank them up they get harsh.

I had my Yamaha RX-V3300 running the mains but I switched to a pair of Parasound Monoblocks rated @ 150wpc each.

One thing is that I have these in a smallish room and it could be part of the problem. Once in ahwile I like to listen to a song or two at club like volume levels so it would be nice if there was a way to address this.

Ideas?

[Underhanded Penguin]

Hi Pete. I swear I had this problem the first year or so. I've had them for about three years now and without changing anything, the problem has mysterisouly disappeared. The only thing I could attribute this to is break in. They are not as harsh anymore. Has anyone experienced this?

I'm using my RF3IIs as mains in an HT with Denon 1802 receiver and some noname brand of biwire cable.

-UP

[just_me_the_dude]

I think its the break-in period, sometimes its the room itself... it might have too much standing waves.... so in high volumes it really gets ear piercing.

[Malcolm_B]

Just added a set of RF-3II's last night that I picked up cheap and they made JAWS (DTS version) a whole new listening experience! But with my 1 year old trying to go to sleep upstairs, I couldn't really crank them up that high, although it sounded loud enough to me.

[homeslice]

I've experienced the same thing. Now that I have a house I've played them pretty loud for the first time and they get a little ear piercing. I've always liked my RF-3IIs at low to mid levels but because of this I've contemplated getting different speakers or a different receiver. I got a new Pioneer elite 53TX when I bought the house so I'm not sure if its the receiver, speakers or both.

[bchild311]

I think this phenomenon is attributable to all Reference series speakers. For movies my 7's aren't harsh at all even at incredible volumes. But in stereo mode while listening to music I'm often turning down my treble to -2 and -4 on my Denon. And it's one of the warmer sounding amps! So I can see it being a real problem.

As far as the break-in theory I'm not too sure about that. I've had my 7's for close to a year now and haven't seen the harshness go away, like I say, especially with music/2 channel mode.

Makes me think that the real intent from the guys at Klipsch was for these Reference series speaks to be mostly for Home Theater. Someone correct me if they think or have heard otherwise.

[Frzninvt]

If the RF-3II's have titanium tweeters in them it is a good bet that those are the source of the harshness at high listening levels. In addition, Yamaha and Pioneer receivers tend to be on the bright side when paired with Klipsch speakers as well. If you are hearing the same things with the Denon I would certainly have to do with the titanium tweeters. Perhaps a capacitor upgrade in the crossover would smooth them out some, it would certainly be cheaper than a new receiver or speakers. DeanG may be able to assist you as he has been doing some very nice crossover upgrades for forum folks.

[avman]

----------------

On 2/26/2004 12:00:39 PM just_me_the_dude wrote:

sometimes its the room itself... it might have too much standing waves.... so in high volumes it really gets ear piercing.

----------------

that's it DUDE!

i would bet dollars-to-doughnuts that a little reduction in reflections would cure that problem!

avman.

[Griffinator]

Hey, people are starting to connect with the concept of room treatments!

We are evolving - this is very good.

[Griffinator]

Sorry. That came off really sarcastic, and it wasn't meant to be. I'm completely serious - the room is just as much a part of the system as any other component, and too often we neglect the room as part of our process of perfecting our systems.

[Deang]

Most "normal" rooms have a good mix of both sound absorbing and reflecting surfaces. You need both for good sound. The simple "hand clap" test will tell you where you are at. At any rate, hanging goofy looking stuff around your room will only take you so far. With Reference, if you want milky smooth and clean, and a sound more optimized for music listening -- you have to upgrade the parts in the xover, and tweak the value of the resistor in the notch circuit.

[cjgeraci]

I vote for room treatments and amplification. When I first started with my RF3IIs, they were very harsh at high volumes run with a Yamaha receiver. Adding room treatments somewhat helped. However, the biggest difference was a warmer sounding amp. I demoed a Denon receiver, and the harshness improved dramatically. In the end, I ended up opting for a Harman Kardon receiver, and I recently upgraded H/K receivers (since my initial one). Now, I can play music at extremely-high volumes with no harshness whatsoever. Based on the Reference line's excellence in handling H/T, my suggestion is to try different amplification and add room treatments before discarding your Reference speakers. Under the right circumstances, they also excel at music, even at very high volumes. Dean also makes some excellent points about the crossovers.

------------------------

Samsung TXN3245FP,Harmon Kardon AVR 7200,Denon DVD-2900,RF3II,RC3II,RS35,KLF-C7,RC35,SVS 20-39PCi,SVS PB2-ISD

[Q-Man]

I never heard this speaker, but it might also be the horn. You heard it over and over again about the K-400 horn in the Klipschorn and LaScala ringing. You don't hear this ringing untill you start listining at higher volume levels.

This ringing produces a harsh sound and makes the horn hard to listen too. You don't know what this ringing sounds like untill you A/B the 400 to another horn or stop the ringing in one of the 400s and compare them.

Maybe it's time for you Reference owners to start experimenting.

[Deang]

The lenses in Reference are some kind of ribbed plastic composite. They aren't subject to "ringing', but can vibrate with the motorboard a little when jacking the volume knob to 11.

I'm all for better amplification, but the jump from a quality HT receiver to a separate amp and processor is very expensive. After a quarter of a century of dealing with this stuff, I've finally figured out that things work out better if you start from the speakers and work backwards.

[wheelman]

I always beleived room acoustics are the most important, and getting the proper sized speaker for your room. I bought a audiosource amptwo and it sounded harsh for the first four hours. But after that i am talking smooth city. Try leaving your amp on all the time as long as you do not have any electrical problems. IT usually takes to hours to charge the amp before it really opens up. So just when your done listening to music your amp is starting sing. I have aluminum tweeters so this could help smooth things out a bit. One thing i have noticed though is that my speakers will play only so loud regardless of sensitivity. Charge that amp

[Deang]

"It usually takes two hours to charge the amp before it really opens up."

Actually, it takes about 20 seconds. Sounds more like it's taking two hours to shake the wax out of your ears.

[Q-Man]

I may be a little like Dean here, because I believe that you should first make the speaker all that it can be. Once you feel that you can't improve on the speaker anymore see how far the amps and upstream equipment will take you. I've been messing with the Klipschorn and a few other speakers for about three years now, and I am finally satisfied.

Now I'm receiving an education by trying a few different McIntosh amps. I've traded up now for the third time, and the more I spend the better the sound. I thought that I was happy with the MC206 six channel power amp. Now the MC202 two channel power amp is really making a big difference. This proves to me that if you can afford top quallity two channel amps vs. the highest quality multi channel amp that you can buy, go for the two channel amp. I'm am now going to use two MC202 two channel power amps to drive my main speakers and my front and rear center channels. I'll now let the 206 six channel power amp drive the front effect speakers and the four rear surrounds. The Autoformers make a big difference in the McIntosh amps.

[whadyasay]

My apartment is pretty pretty reflective, and my RB-25's were getting on my nerves (sibillance/brightness) when I had a Denon AVR2803 as a pre-pro through a Marantz MM9000 amp. I was setting my treble from -2 to -4 depending on the source material. I just recently got an NAD T163 preamp, and some steel VTI stands that I filled with sand (my old stands were a cheap MDF Sanus set that were getting pretty wobbly). The sound has improved tremendously, especially at higher volumes. Granted, this is a pretty major (not exactly cheap) upgrade, but it's comforting to know that I don't have to start making my apartment look like a sound studio.

[wheelman]

----------------

On 2/26/2004 4:27:06 PM DeanG wrote:

"It usually takes two hours to charge the amp before it really opens up."

Actually, it takes about 20 seconds. Sounds more like it's taking two hours to shake the wax out of your ears.

----------------

Does it really? I noticed if i leave my receiver on for a week it just sounds better. That whole wax thing could be right though. I am about deaf from playing my guitar. I guess you can't beleive everything you read. I read on odyssey amplifier web site were they have tweaks and tips that usually an amp takes two hours two warm up. I know the audiosource amp sounded about ten times better after six hours of listening to it. And I know a little about guitar tone and the difference was awesome hearing Jerry Cantrell from Alice and Chains playing with his wah wah.

[Fish]

I can tell you that it takes my Parasound at least an hour or two before it really starts sounding sweet.I don't go in for many gimmicks,super cables,1k power supplies,biwire etc...but I know for a fact that my Parasound has to warm up,just don't know why.