Griffinator Posted March 18, 2004 Author Share Posted March 18, 2004 ---------------- On 3/18/2004 10:51:05 PM LOADEDTUNES wrote: You'll be long gone from this world long before you'll need to start worring about this stuff. 60% of plactics are recylible , except the thermosets.. What " WIRES " go to the street from your computer ? Don't tell me your not on fiber-optic cable yet ! Where do you live , " Bedrock " ? PS : I've been a goverment enviromental board member for 15 years now , oil is the least of your worries , believe me. ---------------- No offense to you, sir, but I have a friend who quit the environmental engineering field because she was tired of bosses instructing her to doctor tests. I do not have much faith in bureaucratic agencies' opinions on crucial topics like this. The point, over all else: Regardless of whether you believe the validity of the article or not, taking steps to make your home self-sufficient from an energy perspective can do nothing but benefit you and everyone else in the long term. Sometime in the next month or so, I'll be getting my shipment of "flowers" from a company out in Cali who's been developing Sterling Engine-based solar generators. I'm on the betatesting team. I'm really looking forward to this - anything I can do to get off the grid is one more headache I don't have to deal with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOADEDTUNES Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 Thats one huge difference between the usa and canada where i live , corruption at your goverment level is likly the worst on the whole planet. You guys are also the #1 polluters on the planet . The all might buck is what makes america tick and when thats threatened well WOOOOOOOOOOOO the worlds coming to an end . Sure spending a sh!t load of money on the war effort just to protect you oil intrests are'nt you ? well,we have plenty of oil up here, matter of fact there is a 36 inch natural gas pipeline running 1000 yards off my front deck that runs from northern B.C down to chicago, so you fellows can make your own hydrocarbon components. Thats 42 inchs at source and 24 inchs at chicago . We share a lot of our resources with the united states , yet one of your farmers moves up here and has a infected BSE cow in his heard and now our entire meat industry is screwed . All he had to do is bury the dam thing like every other farmer does but " NO " he has to report it and kill an entire countrys meat industry. I'm totaly suprised no one has shot him yet ! Your own population base is going to be your demise. There is almost more people living in califorina then all of canada , yet our country is larger then the USA . Sorry griff but me and my cronnies have shut down dozens of sawmills, mining operations ,oil and gas developers etc etc etc . All due to polution in the water table , our system works. Maybe your friend should come to canada and take up her cause here where someone will listen to her . Oh scratch that idea , our dollar is'nt worth owning compared to another highly inflated one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 I lived in a house with out electricity. With out Natural gas. with out a telephone. You,d be suprised what we had for wipeing our butts. No this was not out in the country but in a big city St Louis. That neighbor hood is still standing. Out houses torn down, sewers put in, electricity put in the same homes, But they are still there. We heated with COAL getting up in the middel of the night to keep the fire going. You guys might realize this but this continent is to COAL as Saudi Arabia is to OIL. IN the WW II Fuel for trucks were processed from COAL. So stop shaking in your boots there are alot of ways to run your computers. Transportation will be different. You would be surprised at whats ahead in air travel. I was part of that research for over 30 yrs. Hypersonic flight is feasible & you will be shocked at what will be used for fuel. Fuel prosessing plants will be under ground at every airport. The airports will not be like what you see today. the megaports will then shuttle you to smaller ports to get you to your destination. This is not day dreaming or pie in the sky dreaming but a true plan on the books now.. There are 3 companys now working on the engine types. and severl more on air frames designs. Russia England & the US have been working on various Hypersonic air frames for quite some time. FUELD BY HYDROGEN SLURRY...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 Hey LOADEDTUNES why dont you take your HATEMONGERING to some other planet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackBurner Posted March 18, 2004 Share Posted March 18, 2004 LOADED : You are to a tree hugger or you'd never taken up the cause . Keep up the good work , you old fart . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steelie Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 LOADEDTUNES is just expressing the views the majority of the world holds against the U.S. I wonder why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuisis Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 I would have to say that pollution is far worse in most third world countries, due mostly to far less restrictive environmental laws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 ---------------- On 3/18/2004 11:32:50 PM LOADEDTUNES wrote: Thats one huge difference between the usa and canada where i live , corruption at your goverment level is likly the worst on the whole planet. You guys are also the #1 polluters on the planet . The all might buck is what makes america tick and when thats threatened well WOOOOOOOOOOOO the worlds coming to an end . Sure spending a sh!t load of money on the war effort just to protect you oil intrests are'nt you Hey man,why you got to start a big flame with your socialist BS? You guys kill me with that sh!t,I don't recall this being a BASH the US thread.Take your BS to PersonalProblems.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Garrison Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 I'm 50 years old. When I was 22, back in '77, we had an oil crisis. People waited in line for 2 hours to buy $2 worth of gasoline. Jimmy Carter was president. The Arab oil conglomerate (OPEC) was calling all the shots. People were saying that there wasn't any more oil, tap was dry, crisis was upon us. Time passed. Things changed. Oil flowed. I am completely certain that there are sufficient untapped oil reserves to carry us along for at least another couple hundred years. When the price of oil becomes high enough to fund the exploration of new fields, new sources will be brought on line. Then the price will drop again. When those new sources are approaching the end of their bounty, price will start to climb, and as the price climbs, economic incentive to explore / tap new sourcew will once again drive exploration. We may run out of oil. Someday. But it won't be before your grandchildren's grandchildren have come and gone. And by then, there will be alternative sources of energy. It took hundreads of millions of years to create the oil reserves that we tap to fuel our cars and produce our plastic toys. We won't deplete them anytime soon. Rather than waste time and energy worrying about oil, or the lack thereof, I'd be much more concerned about lobbying against nuclear energy, solar energy, wind energy, or geothermal energy. I mean, think about it. Windmills, for example. Do you really believe that we could build a big bunch of windmills in say, Iowa, and pull a significant amount of energy out of the prevailing wind patterns, without having some (possibly negative) (possibly *VERY* negative) effect on the local climates? Same for Solar Energy. If the radiant heat is converted into electricity by photovoltaic cells instead of hitting the ground, what is going to happen to the local climate? TANSTAAFL, as Arthur C. Clark used to say... (There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch) Ray, ever the lover of big V8's and the cars that carry them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOADEDTUNES Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 ---------------- On 3/18/2004 11:54:23 PM Maron Horonzak wrote: Hey LOADEDTUNES why dont you take your HATEMONGERING to some other planet. ---------------- ohh BOO WHO did we strike a cord ? Gee whizz maron , i've been to just about every country on this planet would you like a complete report of the feeling the rest of the world has for the USA or would you like the condensed version or the one you and your family members feel safe thinking. Hatemongering !! why don't you get up away from that dam computer open your front door and go into the real world and see for yourself whats out there or change your moniker to clue less . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackBurner Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 I don't see why you guys are getting so excited ? ANSWER YOURSELF THIS Do you not think there is way to much corruption in the goverment ? I do ! Do you not think the polution in the usa is huge , likly because there is such a huge population base . I do , and it is a hard issue to deal with without taxs going through the roof which would upset the voters. Right ? BSE issue is more political than anything , the american producers have never done better business since the canadian border has been closed. Do you think the american ( voters ) producers want it open any time soon. ? And " Yes " if the shoe was on the other foot who would be screaming. Points are all valid but hey lets drop this right here and now and go back to the audio thing , everyone has a point of veiw and theres no need to call each other names because were on oppisite sides of the fence. PS : I don't see any hate mongering , those that don't live within the usa have a totaly different view of the country due to the suffering from some policies . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LOADEDTUNES Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 Your right BackBurner : I'm sorry if i offended anyone , i won't bring it up again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheelman Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 That's a messed up read Griff. But thinks for the heads up. The guy is coming off a little paranoid. But definetly the ****'s going down as we speak. WE have tons of oil in Alaska i didn't quite catch him talk about that. I did however speed read a little then it got slower as i started to realize the seriousness of it. I think he is full of **** on the nuclear power plant thing though. It seems like they were trying to put one on every corner just a little while ago. And that is another big issue all in it's own. I love America but we are (one of the ) the laziest countrys their is. We want every convenience their is and that just completely consumes every source. This has been a well known fact for years. But were just to damn lazy to care i guess. I care most definetly their really isn't anything we can say to fix it. All we can do is conserve as much as possible and try not to F@#k every thing that moves so we aren't over populated and that goes for every horny country. The whole war thing is pretty scary though and the biological stuff. Alot of people in the Amazon live without any fuel. Of course they were raised this way and it will be survival of the fittess for us. Then who we pick and choose to live. It will a be alot harder of a live to some and to others just another day. Unless it all ends with nuclear war. Well then Carpe diem baby! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdm56 Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 LoadedTunes, why don't you kinda cool that inflammatory rhetoric of yours, so we don't get thumped by the mods again, eh? You certainly have a right to your opinion, but I think you might be able to state it in a less hostile way. I'm sure you would not characterize yourself as "anti-American" would you? Well, that is kinda how you are coming across on my radar. Now, to rebut some of your assertions, let's start with that bit about the USA being the worlds biggest polluter. That may well be true. After all, since we are probably the worlds biggest consumer (pardon us, we didn't mean to be so...successful. ) it only stands to reason we are gonna have a lot to throw away. The company I work for spends millions of dollars NOT to pollute, some by government mandate, some by their own sense of "doing the right thing". Plus, have you ever heard of the EPA? Their regs cost American industry (and therefore, American consumers) billions of dollars. Are you saying that American efforts at reducing pollution are sub-standard relative to other countries? Do you have any concrete proof of this? Now, corruption: Again, where is your proof the US government is this cesspool of corruption you seem to think it is? Particularly, relative to other governments around this big old world. I personally have not encountered this to any degree, and I've lived here for 47 years. Which of course does not disprove your claim, but it is anecdotal evidence to the contrary. Perhaps our system of checks and balances within the government does root out and shine a bright light on corruption more often than would happen in many countries. Do you think that may be a possible explanation for your perception of us? Finally, the war in Iraq: Right now, as you and I sit comfortably in our homes, thousands of young men and women are on the front lines of a war against an opponent who would gladly murder us and our families, if he could, simply because we do not bow to the same god, or believe in the same ~holy~ books as he does, or interpret those books the same way. American, British, Italian, Spanish, Polish and more - these young people are putting there lives on the line for you and I. You can believe it's all about oil if you want. But I think there are about 3000 lives that were lost on 9/11, and this fight is mostly about them. And the 200 who were murdered in Spain a few days ago. This is about them, too. And the thousands murdered in Iraq by a brutal Saddam Hussein, and in Afghanistan by an equally brutal Taliban. Maybe you would not mind living under Taliban rule, but we in America have grown rather accustomed to freedom - and, sadly, to fighting to preserve it. Maybe you would have a different outlook if the tragic events of 9/11 had taken place in Canada instead of America. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricktate Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 I own oil stock and the cost to produce a barrel of oil is around 4-8 dollars,,,so they are making a lot of money,I have small oil wells in my town,,,they sat idle for last few years, as soon as it got to 25.00 a barrel guess what,,,they all are pumping like crazy now...makes you wanna say...hhhmmmm...Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBB Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted March 19, 2004 Author Share Posted March 19, 2004 I'm just about sorry I brought the whole thing up. I try to talk about what we as people can go do to help ourselves, and the discussion disintegrates into what's wrong with America, conspiracy theory, tree hugging, etc... LOADED - I didn't realise you were Canadian. I apologize for the affront. You guys do actually enforce your environmental regs up there. What passes for "independent lab testing" down here would make peoples' hair curl if they heard about it. That's what drove my friend out of the field. She was making $150,000 a year, but she couldn't sleep at night. Back on topic: SOLAR, SOLAR, SOLAR! I was poking around via Google last night and saw these killer solar "shingle" type deals that just lay right over top of your existing roof. No ugly frames, and completely weatherproof! Dig! http://www.cetsolar.com/unisolarroofingprod.htm I'm thinking I could probably scrounge up enough cash to invest in a high-wattage inverter, then add panels to it a piece at a time. Meanwhile, the TVA has a cool program where they'll buy your excess output (not net-meter here, just whatever you don't use) for $0.15 per kW. Not a bad deal, certainly better than the power company's buyback. To me, even if you don't think the concerns are baseless, it makes good fiscal sense to generate your own power. The less cash outlay you gotta make each month, the more you can spend on Klipsch, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 A fairly complex issue all the way around. I thought Loaded had a good post. What did he say wrong -- it was mostly the truth. A little stinging maybe, but that's O.K. Geologically speaking, there is about 30 years of oil left in the Middle East. We can overcome the cost issues, we always do -- but when it's gone -- it's going to suck big time. There will necessarily be a paradigm shift, and it will be a painful transition. God has built saftey limits into the nature thing, and I believe in the next 10 years most of human race will actually come to understand that Global Warming is real. I didn't used to believe it, but I do now. Those nice shots of the big hole in our atmosphere from ozone depletion are nice too. So, about the time reality starts sinking in on both of these issues, we will begin what we should have been doing over the last quarter century -- aggressively pursuing alternative fuels. What I find ironic and interesting is how both the coming fossil fuel crisis and environmental crisis are tracking along the same curve so to speak. About the time we start to run out, the environment will be about at the most it can handle filth wise. About 85 years worth of oil in Siberia, and more can be drilled from ocean beds, as well as collected from vegetation put under pressure and heat. However, not only extremely expensive propositions, but all would keep us enlaved on one level or another. You think it's bad with the Middle East squeezing our balls, imagine the vice the Russians could put them in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 Solar and Wind is the way to go. It's retarded that we haven't gone there yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ygmn Posted March 19, 2004 Share Posted March 19, 2004 Actually it costs quite a bit to remove oil from the ground... In Deep water Gulf of Mexico....the average cost is around $16-18 per barrel of oil.....this is due to the huge somes of money spent on: Finding oil. Drilling wells to get to oil Building structures to go over site to house production equipment Salaries of men working for various companies involved Costs of maintaining equipment Costs of moving oil once it gest to surface to a refinery either by pipeline or shuttle tankers There is a huge wealth of oil through out the worlds...Some of these areas are environmental protected areas....Off the florida coast is one..... Also oil is being produced by the earth everyday as well...... Somethings to consider....Currently the oil companies are in a slow growth period for finding oil due to the last few years world economies and political stability problems.... Something else... If you look back in time...oil is one product which has not been effected by inflation.....back in the 80's oil went for as high as $60 a barrell at one point....Oil is one of the worlds true MARKET product....ie the cost is very much dictated by supply and demand...even if the supply is manipulated by certain organized countries.... Find this book and read... The Prize by Daniel Yergin... It is the premeir book on the history of oil and explains the business, politics, & facts of OIL.... A must read for any petroleum engineer...... Good Luck and happy driving... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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