tgourlie Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 With my up coming purchase of some k-horns, I want some new equipment to power them with. Right now I have some old Pioneer Elite stuff (cd player, receiver) with my Heresy II's, I have no complaints about the sound, I guess it is just the audio bug that wants me to buy new stuff (all of you know what I mean). The question is SS or Tube... It will be 50/50 HT and 2ch. I am not looking to spend a whole bunch here, around $1,500 or $2,000. I have absolutely no experience with Tubes. except for guitar pre-amps. I will do some searches on the forum about the little questions. I guess I just want some opinions on tube amps. What are the best for the money. The corvette or the tube amps... still get blown away by the Ferrari, porsche, and the Lambo's... but enough to kick some @$$. Another thought was going with a tube preamp and a SS amp, so I could get the tube sound, yet still have the power of a SS. ????? Any thoughts????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 You won't need great power reserves with K-horns, and the loudspeakers won't want it. They will be able to provide enormous amounts of dynamic information with very low amplifier output. There are a number of variables to consider, and the size of your listening room and listening tastes and habits should probably play an important role in what you eventually choose. The question you pose puts a hand on the latch of Pandora's box, as well as the can opener to the lid of various species of canned worm, and opinions will (and have!) vary. With Klipschorns, La Scalas, and Belles (and a few current production models, as well), we normally talk about high power in the range of 25-35 watts, or maybe a bit more. It seems that most here enjoy the sound of tube equipment, or as you mentioned, a combination of tube and solid state. At the other end of the power pole, there are those among us who are very happy with as little as 1.5 watts. This may or may not sound rather odd, especially if you are more familiar with high power SS amps; however, I have heard 1.5 watts of single-ended tube amplification with Klipschorns, and the result was really impressive. However, this comes from someone who uses low-power SE (single-ended) amplifiers. I have no doubt in my mind whatever, that higher power push-pull amplifiers (vintage or current production)can sound equally good........and very likely in many cases 'better.' The word 'better' is the sticking point, though, and that's something only you can decide. For both vacuum tubes and transistors, there is a dizzying number of possibilities available -- so many in fact, that the quest for the right one or combination can turn into something of an adventure Good luck and have fun! Having heard many different speakers over the past 23 years or so, Klipschorns are able to provide the most astonishingly life-like presentation of music I have ever heard. That's one fact upon which all Klipsch owners tend to agree. As you are also wondering, the perplexing question seems to be associated with the best food to feed the beast! Erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arj Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 well..as in all things Hifi Tubes/SS doent matter what matters is implementation you have tubes sounding like SS amps (ie a bit grainy or with good Bass Slam) as well as SS amps sounding like Tubes..very smooth. Hence permutation combinations are endless ! Another way to go foraward might be to get a CD player with a Tube Output and a SS amp. I personally have found that to be the best combination of the two worlds. And if you can get a Class A amp..even if low power (you will NEV ER need more than 10 amps for your Khorn !)..you'l have music to die for.. Reco's for CD players : Shanling, Consonance, Ah! tjoeb,Jolida .... Amps: My personal favourite is the Sugden A21A or Bijou ..but there are others like Musical fidelity, Pass Labs etc which provide decent tubelike sound as well!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 I would start with a low cost integrated amp from NOSvalues, then in a couple of decades, if you want to upgrade, sell them for more than what you paid for them and get Wright, Welbourne, etc. amps.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltie dave Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 Todd, Colin is close to the bone. Craig and Smilin both have some real good tube examples up for sale. If you want loud, pick up a Scott 2-72 they both are selling, or Smilin's Quicksilver 60s. They have been totally sorted, and are fine turnkey examples with warranties. Try one for a while, if you like it, keep it. If you want something different, move it to another forum member and get another flavor. The possibilities are endless. They also have great vintage integrateds. What are five of your favorite bands, and how big is your listening room? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynnm Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 My preference is for tubes but I suggest that since you like the sound of your present amp with the Heresys you would be wise to run the Khorns with the Pioneer for a while before going shopping. This will give you a better baseline for comparison. There are many decent tube amps available in your price range both new and reconditioned. I run an Antique Sound Lab AQ1003DT using EL34 outputs and rated at 30 watts per channel and enjoy it immensely. That one lists at about U$ 1000.00 Numerous excellent amps from ASL and other makers can be had at similar prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 ---------------- On 4/9/2004 7:22:02 AM Colin wrote: I would start with a low cost integrated amp from NOSvalues, then in a couple of decades, if you want to upgrade, sell them for more than what you paid for them and get Wright, Welbourne, etc. amps.... ---------------- Colin, Thanks for the rec and the decades statement was classic ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 tgourlie, We really need more oformation to properly advise what may fit your needs. 1)Room size 2)Music types you enjoy 3)Volume you like to reach even if extreme is just occasional we need to no this 4)Do you like your system Clean,Clear,Dynamic and Realistic or Sublime, Polite and Laid back ?? Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 "I would start with a low cost integrated amp" I'd recommend against an integrated amp since that will make half his useage more complex when he is using them in a HT environment. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hwatkins Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 I am with shawn - I would not complicate my options (I think we are agreeing here). I would look at some very good HT reviever options with Pre outs and take to an amp for front left/right. Then you could easily use your dedicated amp for 2 channel. It would also give you the flexibility to experiment with equipment for the 2 channel stuff - that is where you can also have bunches of fun. As to tubes and solid state - I have both, although I do not have the highest end in either (they are decent and very reasonable solutions). My take is that there are definitely different recordings that seem to sound better to me through one or the other. All my turntable stuff (with no exception that comes to mind quickly) sounds best through tube amplification. CDs are almost six of one/half dozen of another. The tubes tend to 'mellow' (my term, don't know how else to say it) some of the more dynamic orchestra and rock stuff that will leave me missing something that is repaired by the SS. A great majority of the blues and jazz stuff are complimented by that tube variation on the sound. Enjoy...As always - IMHO and FWIW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 tgourlie, For a start grab smilin's Scott 272 while you can! At $750 totally rebuilt it is a great bargain. They usually go for a grand unrebuilt or rebuilt by Al Nobody. The El-34 sounds great with K-horns smooth, mellow, great bass and clear mids. Then get a 5.1 Decoder and some SS devises for your surounds. You can get away without a sub with properly coupled K-horns. I use an RF-3II center and SS.5 surounds whether I use the K-horns or Heresy's for the front L&R. I use tubes on the K=horns with no sub and SS on the Heresys with a nice big sub. Depending on my mood. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 I'd get that little Panasonic XR-50 HT receiver with the chip-amps and start listening to music and watching movies. Many think the Panasonic is REALLY good. My pal Chang thinks it sounds as good as his gain-clones and WAY better than his Audio-Note 300B. http://www.jandr.com/JRProductPage.process?RestartFlow=t&Section_Id=946&Product_Id=3964392 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 As far as the home theater reciever goes if I ever bought another it would absolutely have to have multi channel preamp outs. I would never make the same mistake I did the first time around the HT route. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 If we are talking CHEESY (that is CHEAP, MOSTLY PLASTIC, and NASTY SOUNDING, with accent on the CHEAP), I would say CHEESY tube gear is better sounding on the whole than equally CHEESY solid state. If you are talking higher quality and more expensive gear of the definitively NON-CHEESY variety, then it becomes more of a wash IMO, and the various differences that feed the tube/ss controversy is less tangible. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soeren Basboell Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 tgourlie, I think, that if you do not know if you prefer tube or SS in that price range, then you should give the Tripath solution a try. It is based on a spread spectrum principle and is not a PWM amplifier as many believe. Leok and I have been building theese shortly after they were commercially available, independent of each other and have builded them mainly for friends, and we have the same opinions about the special problems involved, although our solutions are slightly different. We are here talking of nuances. If you are interested, I can send you such an amplifier, and you can have it for, say a month, and then you will have either to pay it or return it. The price will be 1100 USD. If you find the price a little bit high, then it is because I try to make it as expensive as possible, such as using Elma attenuators instead of potentiometers for two reasons: First, I find the principle so good that it deserves to be surrounded by the best components; second because it takes even less time to produce, and I can and will not compete with the production from Taiwan. Until now it has been the most satisfying I have tried on my Khorns and the other equipment with which it has been tested; but here, it has not been tried with everything, and I am not the right person to ask although I know it very well. If interested, then send me a mail or write it here. Søren Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 Considering the gear you have had on your system in the past -- that is one hell of an endorsement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 That is truely a generous offer (and your Klipschorns just may love it)! Some solid-state amps to consider from McIntosh, vintage harman/kardon, Monarchy Audio, conrad-johnson, Yamaha, classic Nakamichi, and Denon... Probably just about any tube amp, vintage or new, SET or PP, will do nicely! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBrennan Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 Malotky's Khorns sound glorious with his SS Macs. Superb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted April 9, 2004 Share Posted April 9, 2004 ---------------- On 4/9/2004 8:43:52 PM Soeren Basboell wrote: tgourlie, I think, that if you do not know if you prefer tube or SS in that price range, then you should give the Tripath solution a try . It is based on a spread spectrum principle and is not a PWM amplifier as many believe. Leok and I have been building theese shortly after they were commercially available, independent of each other and have builded them mainly for friends, and we have the same opinions about the special problems involved, although our solutions are slightly different. We are here talking of nuances. If you are interested, I can send you such an amplifier, and you can have it for, say a month, and then you will have either to pay it or return it. The price will be 1100 USD . If you find the price a little bit high, then it is because I try to make it as expensive as possible, such as using Elma attenuators instead of potentiometers for two reasons: First, I find the principle so good that it deserves to be surrounded by the best components; second because it takes even less time to produce, and I can and will not compete with the production from Taiwan. Until now it has been the most satisfying I have tried on my Khorns and the other equipment with which it has been tested; but here, it has not been tried with everything, and I am not the right person to ask although I know it very well. If interested, then send me a mail or write it here. Søren---------------- i am currently using a tripath based amplifier... a carver professional ZR1000..... i've been using it since last october.... they sell for online for about $750 on more than a few sites.... it is the best sounding amplifier that i have ever used with my KLF-30's.... solid state or tube.... and the added benefit is that you have 225 watts per channel for those high demand peaks in the 1812 overture or sudden blasts in action movies.... good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tubelover Posted April 10, 2004 Share Posted April 10, 2004 Hi powered SS Mac gear is the only intelligent choice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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