ltsdnce Posted August 23, 2004 Share Posted August 23, 2004 I have a pair of Klipschorns that I purchased in 1985. I listen to lots of music (no home theater), mainly jazz and classical, but some rock and folk as well. I would like to pair the Klipsch with a good amp (or pre amp and amp, if this is neccesary to get wonderful sound) that would be better than my current Creek 4330 integrated amp. Any suggestions from Klipschorn owners would be greatly appreciated! I would like to keep the cost to under 1K if possible. thanks, Isabella I use a Cambridge Audio D300SE CD player. Also, do I need to make any upgrades to the Klipschorns? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.4knee Posted August 23, 2004 Share Posted August 23, 2004 Amp/preamp combo: anything McIntosh As far as upgrades your crossover components have surely aged and could stand some upgrading to more modern componentry. There are several members on this board who can help you with that, such as Al Klappenberger (AL K on this forum) makes the ALK series A crossover based on the original AA's. John Warren makes crossovers, Bob Crites (BEC on the forum) makes component upgraded versions of the original A and AA crossovers. Dean G also does crossover work. All of these folks are very reputable gents and produce exceptional products. Al K also sells parts kits to his ALK crossovers for DIY'ers. You can also contact Bob Crites for diaphragm replacements for your drivers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted August 23, 2004 Share Posted August 23, 2004 I gotta go with the McIntosh recommendation, too. I have not found anything better! The Mc reputation (and unfortunately price) is well-founded. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted August 23, 2004 Share Posted August 23, 2004 that creek is a nice sounding integrated amp...for $1,000 you should go used or vintage for best bang for buck...the choice is first between tubes and solid state, one requires a little more attention and care than the other (tubes)...the other choice is separates or another integrated...thiink these over and give us feedback... In the mean time some thoughts off the top of my head; I prefer tubes, if I had $1,000 I might go for a tube integrated amp from Jolida or ASL. choices in vintage would be Marantz (tube or SS), McIntosh (hard to find under $1,000), Dynaco, or Scott. these are mostly purchased as separates (I had a nice pairing of marantz preamp and dynaco amp that sounded fabulous with my klipshorns). modern used components from conrad johnson, Audio Refinement (YBL), McIntosh (I have an MA6400 integrated by them which sounds great) or Electrocompaniet would attract my eye and can be found for <$1,000. but remember you have a quite good integrated there...you may not gain much with a $1,000 thrown at amplification... re: the speakers, I liked the result of getting new caps and coils into my crossovers, seemed to add some frequency extension and clarity to the klipschorns, YMMV you may also look at improving the quality of your source, adding an outboard DAC for example, and you cables (though cables are a famous source of controversy, I feel I have heard an improvment in sound by upgrading my cables). give us some feedback and we can better advise, warm regards, tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ltsdnce Posted August 23, 2004 Author Share Posted August 23, 2004 Tony, thanks! I guess I was thinking tubes as I have heard they sound better than SS. Haven't actually listened myself. Re: speakers...I am illiterate when it comes to crossovers, etc. Have no clue even what that is. I would like to upgrade the Klipschorns but would need someone to guide me with this, as to what exactly to upgrade and how to do it. I am using Pure Silver Sound interconnects and think these do make a difference in the sound...am thinking of some day getting their silver speaker cables. Your help is appreciated! Isabella Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwinr Posted August 23, 2004 Share Posted August 23, 2004 You'd have to spend significantly more money to better the Creek. Lovely amp with a near tube sound. The only budget solid state integrated I like more than the Creek, is the Sugden A21a class A. Otherwise you will need to go tube like the other guys are suggesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted August 23, 2004 Share Posted August 23, 2004 This modded new with warrantee Jolida 302B for 1025 could fit your bill. Mine sounds very nice on my Khorns. http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?ddampstube&1097211175 Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted August 23, 2004 Share Posted August 23, 2004 What a lovely question! Arent we all glad that he asked it? First, let me preference the ensuing battle with this kind request: please post your room dimensions, front-end equipment and if you have a subwoofer in your system profile, this will help some forum members give you thoughtful, insightful answers. Others will merely fire at will. Let me just say I have heard very few amplifiers, but here is what I think: First, since you have gad-awful sensitive big ole horns, you can consider flea-powered amplifiers, both solid-state and tube. This also means 2A3 or 45 tubes and SET amplifiers. Remember, it is the first milli to one watt that matters with your big ole horns. Having said that, after years of surfing the Web, I decided that the tonal king of choice for ultra-sensitive big ole horns is the 2A3 tube. For me, that embodiment was low-cost, flea-powered tube Bottlehead 2A3 Paramour amplifiers kits. Although I have seriously auditioned only a few amplifiers, in my own home, with the same music and equipment, these inexpensive charmers sound almost as good as some very expensive alternatives. Next, a really deep actively-powered, solid-state subwoofer is the only kind that might actually fit in with the 30Hz depth of the Khorns. The subwoofer also lets you enjoy tube amplifiers, when used so judiciously you cant hear it sneak into the room, the subwoofer really helps with the bass that flea-powered amplifiers cant handle. (My route anyway.) Second, I about to plug in a new Harmon Kardon 630 receiver, but so far the only reasonably priced solid-state amplifier that impresses me on big ole horns is a sweet, little 70s vintage, solid-state harmon/kardon 330B receiver. This receiver is a revelation; more tube-like than the few modern, chintzy pieces of solid-state tin I have heard. It makes me wish my flea-powered Bottlehead Sovtek 2A3 tube Paramour amplifiers had a top end of NOT merely 6-watts, but maybe 10, possibly 12 or even15 watts. So look for "X"30 series of HK stereo receivers. The 430, 630, 730, and 930 models were twin-powered, (recently about $25 to $75 on eBay). Plan on possibly double that amount to clean-up dirty knobs and repair old capacitors. Next, I would consider vintage, but refurbished, Scott and Eico integrated tube amplifiers, which I heard briefly on classic Klipsch corner Khorns at preacherman Daddydees May 2004 Klipsch gathering in Little Rock, Arkansas. The Scott was surprisingly nice with the Klipsch RF7s. Plan on $200 or so for the amplifier, maybe double that for the refurbishing. I would consider checking with NOSvalves at http://www.nosvalves.com/. NOS means New Old Stock, for vintage tubes that have NOT been used or retain their original voltage - he was a regular poster here (is he still?). Third, I really liked what the new Cayin TA30 integrated tube amplifier did at the gathering for the price. This is an attractive unit with a soft copper faceplate and bias adjustment. It is hefty, with great sound and looks for the price. I heard the very highly recommended Wright 2A3 amplifier at the Arkansas gathering. I did NOT think there was a huge difference between those and my custom Bottlehead 2A3 Paramour amplifiers. I also heard the custom-built Lassard 2A3 amplifiers on the big ole horns. They were silky smooth, but with out the punch of the forty pound Quad II-forties tube monoblocks (Art Dudley put Quads on his top ten amplifiers of all time list in Septembers venerable Stereophile magazine). I heard of Quads going to a little over $2K. I have the new ASL AQ1003 here for review and will plug it this weekend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted August 23, 2004 Share Posted August 23, 2004 Nice find Rick. I have admit, that one's hard to beat for a person wanting to get their feet wet with this stuff. Basically plug and play, and probably sounds great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted August 23, 2004 Share Posted August 23, 2004 Colin, I'm sure Dudley's addition of the QUADs to his "top 10 list" is referring to the original QUAD IIs, not the QUAD II-forties that I have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted August 23, 2004 Share Posted August 23, 2004 Isabella; You came to the right place for sensory overload in suggestions. -Edwin is correct; but trying tubes is a logical extension in the pursuit of enjoying your K Horns. You'd have to spend significantly more money to better the Creek. Lovely amp with a near tube sound. The only budget solid state integrated I like more than the Creek, is the Sugden A21a class A. ======================= An upsampling DAC will better define brass and woodwinds in your classical. I was listening to Duke Ellington tonight and the realism of the CD was pretty astounding. ====================== You would probably get more for your money to spend on some crossover upgrades than on speaker cables. Thanks for starting this thread and enjoy. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted August 24, 2004 Share Posted August 24, 2004 Isabella, Before doing anything I suggest you try to get out and listen to some tube amps versus SS amps in systems...if you cricel of friends does not include degenerate audio-junkies like us then a few days spent visiting high-end audio stores should help you decide, try to bring some of your most listened to music and ask to compare amps on the same speakers (preferably high-efficiency ones). you should quickly be able to draw some general conclusions regarding which type of sound you prefer, thus having a general idea of where you wish to go sound-wise with your system. It is even possible that there is high-end dealer in your town that seels creek, in which case you can compare amps directly to a creek amp (which as I said is a very nice sounding SS amp). can you describe what you would like to improve about the music coming from your system now? that might help focuss your investment. have you heard a system you liked better? what characteristics would you like to improve? re: klipschorn upgrades...this can be an obsession...which crossover do you have now? it is marked on the crossover board (AA, AK-2, AK-3?). some people mention that silver cables make their k-horns sound more strident than copper cables. As I said I love the warmth and glow of tubes, I even liked the sound of some tubby vintage stuff hooked up in my system, not perhaps the ultimate in accuracy but I could not resist the aural honey...my current system tends towarda ccuracy with a touch of warmth, each of us has personal preferences in regard to the kind of sound we want to get, just as we have different tastes in music or wine. you need to clearly define for yourself what type of sound you crave and then build the system around that. IMHO, YMMV, etc. LOL! warm regards, tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted August 24, 2004 Share Posted August 24, 2004 sunnysal makes great points one of the best posts! a couple of considerations... -other than very well shielded interconnects beware of investing in cables with large dollars -unfortunately most dealers cannot give you any usefull listenng experiencein their room for serious high efficiency horn 2 channel. You have to buy it and try it; and hope you do not lose a bunch of money if you do not like the component. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ltsdnce Posted August 24, 2004 Author Share Posted August 24, 2004 Tony, My speakers have AK-2 on the board...should this be upgraded, and if so, how? Does anyone have suggestions on speaker wires for the Khorns? Looks like I will try to listen to some tube amps if possible and think about adding DAC. Anyone have knowledge of stereo stores that carry Klipsch near Little Rock? I'm not sure how to describe the sound I like...I guess warm and full bodied. Isabella Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwinr Posted August 24, 2004 Share Posted August 24, 2004 ---------------- On 8/23/2004 9:57:52 PM Colin wrote: What a lovely question! Aren’t we all glad that he asked it? First, let me preference the ensuing battle with this kind request: please post your room dimensions, front-end equipment and if you have a subwoofer in your system profile, this will help some forum members give you thoughtful, insightful answers. Others will merely fire at will..... ---------------- I just love the way you said that! But sometimes there ain't nothin' better than a scatter gun going off... After all, we're sure to hit something! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted August 24, 2004 Share Posted August 24, 2004 How about using the integrated Creek's pre or amp section, with a tube pre or amp? Possible best of both worlds? I am totally guessing here, mind you... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted August 24, 2004 Share Posted August 24, 2004 "My speakers have AK-2 on the board...should this be upgraded, and if so, how?" Yes, eventually -- but right now I think you should buy the Jolida that Rick recommended. It's simply a great place to start, and will transform your Klipschorns. If you were already using a tube amp, I would say the crossover upgrade would be next. The next step is the AK-3, and your present AK-2s can be upgraded to AK-3s for a few hundred. There are several here that could do this for you, including me. Another option open to you is the new AK-4 upgrade kit offered by Klipsch. The kit includes the new AK-4 crossover boards and new drivers. The price for the upgrade is $1800.00 As far as speaker wire goes, I wouldn't go overboard here. You might try some Kimber 4TC from www.audioadvisor.com It's a high quality copper, and it's braided -- which offers some built in shielding properties. Can't help you with Little Rock. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 Guys! Hello! Isabelle (Itsdance) is a Khorn lover and a woman in Little Rock, who needs help (there are plenty of wonderful gentlemen in the area who am sure would love to help (much better advice than a lowly stereo store)... Jolida over cayin TA30? mmm, not sure about that one.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 isabella, the ak-2 is a good crossover...perhaps at some point send it someone to put in better caps and coils and upgrade to ak-3 (or aa but THAT is a issue we cannot get into now! LOL!)... for now focus on getting a grip on what a tube amp sounds like on horn speakers. I am sure some of our buddies here will chime in on audio stores near you (I am living in central america right now so I have NO idea where you can find stores near you...haha)...maybe someone will offer to bring something over to your house for a listen...most can be trusted...lol the new jolidas and ASL integrateds will all give you warm and full sound, I think you will not be dissapointed with hthose options... vintage gear, particularly from scott, dynaco and marantz would give you that flavor of sound as well but requires a careful selection and purchase process to ensure you do not get a lemon (just like used cars)...I love vintage but I have been burned before... warm regards, tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbflash Posted August 25, 2004 Share Posted August 25, 2004 I would get in touch with Board Member DaddyDee. I think he is close to Little Rock. At one time he had both SET and PP amps. Danny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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