jt1stcav Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 ---------------- On 10/12/2004 7:24:09 PM Marvel wrote: ..."Who is here from Florida with a low powered amp? Humidity makes a difference as well." Marvel ---------------- I haven't lived in Denver since '81, and I didn't own SET then, so I have no reference to go by. I guess my music sounds damp down here...kinda hard to do an A/B comparison I'm afraid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piranha Posted October 12, 2004 Share Posted October 12, 2004 Adolph Coors creates humidity in Golden with all the water they add to that 3.2 beer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodger Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 ---------------- On 10/12/2004 7:49:33 PM DeanG wrote: I used to joke that the differences in sound from most tweaks were due to changes in barometric pressure. It's probably best if we don't think about stuff like that!! ---------------- Hi Dean: Sorry about yesterday. Not a good one. In noting changes due to barometric pressure, humidity - there are correlations. My wife works at a Hearing and speech center. Depending on weather factors which can affect a persons sinuses, ear pressure, humidity which can affect speaker cone response, as can the barometric pressure - those are factors that may be noted when doing a hearing screening. Allergies, reactions to contact lenses which cause excess tearing, headaches, especially migraine will all affect hearing. Went to a migraine "symposium" last week, put on by Pfizer and 3 Doctors all who suffer from migraines (2 neurologists, 1 neuro-opthamlolgist) migraines can affect sight - a cracked window effect in the center of the visual path with the inability to focus on objects in the center, sound - tinnitus, high or low end. But with all of the factors hearing and the hearing sources can all be affected. One of the new treatments for migraines are Botox injections at certain paths from the neck to the top of the head to the facial area where the sinuses are behind. The thought is the paralysis stops the pain transmission. dodger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodger Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 double - corrected Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 What effect does humidtity have an a system ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 It makes your chicken real moist and juicy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodger Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 ---------------- On 10/13/2004 9:11:48 AM seti wrote: What effect does humidtity have an a system ? ---------------- As it was explained in the hearing and other notable areas, humidity affects: 1. Sinuses, allergies (molds, mildew, dryness) which then affect your hearing curve, high end hearing ability, certain mids - this is in the human body. 2. In the system, humidity affects the paper for the cones, electrical conductance - excess misture can lead to corrosion. It along with ambient temperature affects heat dissipation for speakers, tubes, transformers, and output transistors. The heavier the cone after absorbing moisture, the harder to move due to weight. Weight tolerance can be small. Coatings on the paper or cone material can be uneven. It can also speed corrosion on copper, silver. a. When combined with other airborne dust, dirt, contminants, it will combine to form a layer of "grime." 3. In speaking with one Rep, salty air, as found near an ocean speeds up corrosion and can lead to some pitting on CDs not evenly coated. 4. High humidity air is also more dense. A little harder to move. Some of the warm up time could be attributed to burning off etremely low levels of excess moisture. If you've driven behind a vehicle that is not warm, you may notice moisture dripping from the tailpipe. A much more major example, but it can be hard to tell with electronics. Especially if near cooking areas, below grade, areas of higher than normal humidity. A lot of these affects add up in higher humidity. In wooden speaker cabinets, some are not coated on the inside, or due to scratches, wearing of the finish affect the wood density, altering some timbre. Thus what you may hear today can be altered tomorrow by weather effects on the human body, air density and effects on Components. Even when installing vinyl siding one has to allow for expansion and contraction. Good question - exactly what percent these effects have is extremely hard to measure from person to person. The main part I have seen and heard is he effect on a human. Have your hearing tested on extremely dry, normal and humid days. How the humidity affects can alter your hearing. dodger EDIT: One more thing to thrown in: Time of day. If you notice, volumes have to be somewhat higher in the afternoon . Noise pollution, hearing fatigue. Note the volume setting on your stereo or TV, what may need to be say 14 on a TV or a 4 on Audio Systems can be dropped as you are in quiter surooundings. What needed a 14, can drop to a 9. Getting used to lower volumes can also be a factor. END EDIT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodger Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 ---------------- On 10/13/2004 10:03:08 AM NOSValves wrote: It makes your chicken real moist and juicy ---------------- Absolutely. It can add baste to your system also. dodger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 Audio frequencies travel through air at the same rate, no matter what the density, i.e., 20-20k moves at rate x with a density of m. It moves at rate y with a density of n. Warmer air transmits sound waves slightly faster than cooler air even though colder air is more dense. Humidity doesn't change the acoustic properties much, as 100 percent humidity is still only 4 percent of air. I'm still trying to track some solid info down, but sound travels more slowly through less dense air. Does this make an audible difference? Don't know, but it would seem that a speaker of a given surface area would not move as much air if the air was less dense. Yeah, probably more complex than we want to know. Where are those smart guys when we need them? Marvel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo33 Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 I'd hazard a guess that most PP people () on this board are liberal-conservatives. Real conservatives don't need "power"! Some people just want power to make them feel like they're worth something. "Insecure" is a disease! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 Neo, Do you have multiple personalities? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 "What effect does humidtity have an a system ?" In a typical listening room probably not much. But I've seen it said that in large concert halls high humidity can increase the reverberation in the higher frequency ranges. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo33 Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 "Do you have multiple personalities?" Sometimes I am Neo. And sometimes I am Trinity. But we are the same person, really! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodger Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 With a general question of what effect does humidity have on a system, all properties have to be taken into account. Effects on Equipment, Sound wave travel, the human body and its effects on aural via sinus, inner ear hairs, the movement of the actual ear drum. Even cloud cover caused by humid air will allow for changes in decay, transmission of frequencies. A very damp, humid basement will have different responses. To answer that general question extremes at both ends must be noted. I will attempt to borrow the pertinent notes and books from the Hearing and Speech Center, along with the changes in hearing per my own graphs vs any sinus dificulty factors. dodger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodger Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 A quick Google Search of "humidity effects on sound" Turns up several sources noting db effect at different frequencies vs temperature vs humidity. A Google search of "humidity effects on sound frequencies" also notes the differences. There are several notations pages 1 and 2 of this search. "Propogation of Sound" is one, there are several others on the first mentioned quick search. While not necessarily having a large effect, what is mentioned can be coupled to humidity effects on metal, paper, plastic, strings and again your own hearing if it affects the Sinus or Aural pathway. This is not meant to be a large disagreement, but it can be a similar factor on why joints and bones ache at different pressures, different humidities. Thus one day your hearing may extend to different ranges. An experiment is to fill a bag with ice, place it over your nose so that you breathe drier air at first, then condensation as the ice melts. See if there is any difference in your hearing, or what you hear. Also your ability to breathe may change, there may be a correlation as it affects your hearing. Hearing curve is not a constant. It also changes due to noise, pressure on the ears, congestion, caffiene, amount of sleep and blood pressure. For the most the effect is minimal, but for someone at the edge in "quality" of hearing, the effects can be noted. Also most anechoic chambers have constant temperature and humidity. The same is true for some Recording Studios. But what we actually ask our systems to do is produce bthe most accurate rendition of recorded music. Then we also have to factor type, make, model of microphone. Any amplifiers used, speakers, recording mixer, recorder, tape, quality of pressing or burning machines. We ask a lot. The quest is as one put it - recorded sound accuracy. dodger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 Higher humidity can raise the "density altitude" (i.e., thinner air) by a small percentage. See the website http://www.csgnetwork.com/dadtcalc.html. For example, it needs to be factored in somehow in aviation, when the altitude, temperature, and humidity make for marginal takeoff conditions. That's the limit of what I know about this.... Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 Wow thanks for all the replies. I thought it was just me at first but some days my system sounds better than at other days. I suppose weather and especially sinus problems would make sense in the sound of a system and how we hear a system. Now I need a silent dehumidifier....well maybe thats a little extreme. I still have to tone my room down it is a little too live need to get some tapestries for the walls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 See below...(double post) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 But what if you keep your air conditioning on for the majority of the day during the summer months, and the heat on during the mornings and late in the evenings when it's colder outside? What about a ceiling fan that's constantly on (I like air circulating around me at all times, even during the cooler months), what part does that play in the overall sound of my system? Frankly, I have no problems with humidity and moisture in my home...my cones aren't moldy, and my tubes have no condensation on them in the mornings. I don't think I really hear any difference in my system due to humidity or barometric pressure, but that's just me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodger Posted October 13, 2004 Share Posted October 13, 2004 ---------------- On 10/13/2004 5:43:01 PM jt1stcav wrote: But what if you keep your air conditioning on for the majority of the day during the summer months, and the heat on during the mornings and late in the evenings when it's colder outside? What about a ceiling fan that's constantly on (I like air circulating around me at all times, even during the cooler months), what part does that play in the overall sound of my system? Frankly, I have no problems with humidity and moisture in my home...my cones aren't moldy, and my tubes have no condensation on them in the mornings. I don't think I really hear any difference in my system due to humidity or barometric pressure, but that's just me. ---------------- I didn't mean to imply that there would be condensation on your tubes or that your cones would be moldy. Just enough light moisture can be a possible in tube and system warm up. The changes in hearing can be very subtle. I've had days without changes, high humidity, or allergy, sinus problems that have affected my frequency hearing response. For the most part, we don't notice the changes as they are subtle, if they are present. BUT, it can be enough to have one feel that their system does not sound quite right today when it sounded great yesterday. My note of condensation was more of the extreme. But how can we tell all of the thermo-dynamics and moisture changes as our systems warm up? Not everyone will experience the problems just as not everyone gets the aches and pains before a storm. But it must be something for Recording Studios, test chambers, even some high end audio shops to have controlled heat and humidity. The same with large computers - why are the rooms heat, humidity and sometimes even light controlled. Tape is iron oxide. Too much humidity can equal a rusting. I've seen McIntosh amplifiers where the owners have not been as good as you are about cleaning come up from Florida pitted and more rusty than would be the "norm." Leave a metal tool in your basement where the humidity is higher - you may well see it rust. The same can happen on the inside of an amplifier - higher temperatures plus higher humidity = rust. I've given my case, presented search criteria for Google. I am not saying it will happen all the time, but it is possible. It's like car rusting, doesn't always happen, but sometimes it does. Or if you have a headcold, or sinus problems there will be some changes. The severity of all of the possibilities depends on the severity of the affecting factors. What causes pitting on a chrome chassis? What causes oxidation and corrosion on contacts? Heat, humidity, lack of cleaning, cleaning to hard? If tubes are in a higher degree of humidity why do the pins oxide/rust? I have 35 years plus working with sound. There are cases. dodger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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