scott0527 Posted October 30, 2004 Share Posted October 30, 2004 Ok, for all of you who experience the "night and day" and "blows away" differences between components and things, I wonder if you can help me out here. I've just completed building my ALK crossovers(what a great kit and instructions were awesome). Installed one in the left Khorn and left the old AA in the right Khorn just to be crazy! Ran them for an hour or so and damn it, I can't tell any difference between the two speakers. What types of things should I be listening for? Or what are some simple tests or type of tracks might I try learn for what I should be hearing? Thanks in advance for any help for my "dumb@ss ears". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpg Posted October 30, 2004 Share Posted October 30, 2004 If you are running both at the same time, you might not notice the difference. Run one, then the other and listen critically. I've never heard the ALK's, but I would think you'd have a more smooth midrange, clearer, more pronounced highs, and tighter bass. Don't listen for all of those at the same time... focus on one at a time and note differences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted October 30, 2004 Share Posted October 30, 2004 I enjoyed your post! Great job with the networks, too! Sorry I can't help with your question, though... Erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meuge Posted October 30, 2004 Share Posted October 30, 2004 I've never had much success with A+B testing. Your brain will smooth out the differences in sound to make things sound more coherent. It has error correction mechanisms that we WISH we could adapt to digital technology! A/B testing (10 second passages) is a better way to do it. If you have access to a computer and some sound editing software, then all you need to do is rip you test tracks as WAV files (uncompressed), then split the left/right tracks and select some characteristic 10 second passages and burn a CD. Then do one or both of the following: 1) play 10 seconds on one side, then play the next 10 seconds on the other side 2) play 10 seconds on one side, then play THE SAME 10 seconds on the other The reason I am selecting 10 seconds is because it the about the length of a passage that fits into your intermediate short-term memory. It may be easier to try just playing several segments between 7 and 12 seconds to get a feel as to how much is comfortable. It was 10 seconds for me, but +/- 30% couldn't hurt. P.S. Give yourself 1-2 seconds of silence in between, but no more. You don't want to start making new memories before hearing the other speaker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted October 30, 2004 Share Posted October 30, 2004 Just like a freaking physician to make things so complicated you end up having to over-medicate to get through the procedure. You have to hook up both speakers, you can't do left/right because 1) you're in stereo, and the mix coming out of each channel is different, and 2) the speakers are situated in different parts of the room, so room acoustics will effect the sound of each speaker to some degree as well. Go back and hook up the AAs. Just use ONE song you're pretty familiar with. Sit and listen to the song. While you are listening, focus on just a couple of instruments (I usually listen to cymbals and vocals). When the song is over, swap networks. I don't think you'll have much trouble telling the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpg Posted October 30, 2004 Share Posted October 30, 2004 I've done the listen, rebuild, listen again thing... and by the time I rebuild, I forgot what it sounded like before-hand. I've never gotten anywhere like that... However, with such a huge difference, it might be very easily noticeable this way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynnm Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 Perhaps this user is not hearing any difference between the original cossover and the new is because the differences ( if any ) are so minimal as to be nonexistent a least to him/her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meuge Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 ---------------- On 10/30/2004 10:20:24 PM DeanG wrote: Just like a freaking physician to make things so complicated you end up having to over-medicate to get through the procedure. You have to hook up both speakers, you can't do left/right because 1) you're in stereo, and the mix coming out of each channel is different, and 2) the speakers are situated in different parts of the room, so room acoustics will effect the sound of each speaker to some degree as well. Go back and hook up the AAs. Just use ONE song you're pretty familiar with. Sit and listen to the song. While you are listening, focus on just a couple of instruments (I usually listen to cymbals and vocals). When the song is over, swap networks. I don't think you'll have much trouble telling the difference. ---------------- Good point Dean. I forgot to specify that one has to use only one channel's track and just transpose it to left and right as needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwinr Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 ---------------- On 10/30/2004 7:54:55 PM scott0527 wrote: Ok, for all of you who experience the "night and day" and "blows away" differences between components and things... ---------------- Unfortunately, Scott, I'm in the same boat as you. I can't hear the difference between so-called esoteric cables and budget one's. Or any other tweaks. It's funny, but when I mention blind listening comparisons to my friends who swear by such things, they all run for cover. But cross-over rebuilds and upgrades are an entirely kettle of fish. Speaker manufacturers always tackle cross-overs first in their ongoing efforts to improve sound - especially for their 'Special Edition' models. I would agree you would need both upgraded cross-overs installed before serious listening should take place. Only then would the overall effect and improvements become apparent and appreciated - especially in the very important midrange. I would go so far as to suggest that a properly executed cross-over upgrade would have a much more dramatic improvement on sound than merely changing from one amplifier model to another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 "Perhaps this user is not hearing any difference between the original crossover and the new is because the differences ( if any ) are so minimal as to be nonexistent a least to him/her." Those two networks are pretty different Lynn, it would be hard for me to accept one not being able to hear the differences unless they had substantial loss in hearing. Seriously. Of course, he did admit to having tin ears. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott0527 Posted October 31, 2004 Author Share Posted October 31, 2004 Thank you all for your responses and thanks for not suggeesting they need to "burn-in". I'm going to have to read through your posts again and try some things out. I'll let you all know if my hearing improves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBryan Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 Scott, As the others have pointed out, you'll want to burn-in the xover for a few days (100hrs. or so) before you can really sit down for a critical listen. You can A/B the ALK and AA fairly easily by playing a mono recording and using the balance control on your preamp. Play a familiar track through one speaker, then replay it through the other. Note that a SPL meter will help to match the gain of the xovers so you wont be fooled by the differing attenuation. After listening for a while, you may want to take the test one step further - upgrade the wire in one of the speakers, install the xover you prefer and run the same test. If you still can't hear the difference, carefully wrap the ALK xovers in a plastic bag and pack them well. Next, send them to me for further evaluation and I will forward my findings (eventually). Have fun -Bryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott0527 Posted October 31, 2004 Author Share Posted October 31, 2004 ---------------- On 10/31/2004 8:17:47 AM JBryan wrote: Scott, As the others have pointed out, you'll want to burn-in the xover for a few days (100hrs. or so) before you can really sit down for a critical listen. --Ha you funny Joe. If you still can't hear the difference, carefully wrap the ALK xovers in a plastic bag and pack them well. Next, send them to me for further evaluation and I will forward my findings (eventually). Have fun -Bryan ---------------- No way man, if my ears can't tell the difference, my eyes sure can. These things are a work of art, if i do say so myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 Hmmm -- they look almost the same to me, I can barely tell a difference. I guess I need to A/B them more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 Dean, You should be able to help a guy with tin ears ! That is one thing you have lots of experience with Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 That's true, I do talk to you at least once a week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 Now your lying I may call you once a week but you don't pickup the phone but every 3 weeks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 Scott, I just replace crossovers in 1 of my pair of cornwalls, and the difference to me, and a buddy of mine was BIG. The cornwalls had a much more extended high end, and because of this, I did not hear as much bass. The sound, to me, IMHO, was day and night, cause the high end was so much more extended. I am really trying to get use to the dufference in sound. I have compared to another set of cornwalls and there definately is a noticable LARGE difference. Time will tell if I like it better or worse Right now, I think I like it a lot better Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.4knee Posted October 31, 2004 Share Posted October 31, 2004 OK you cannot compare them the same time. Either put the crossovers into one speaker at a time and just listen to that speaker with a mono input, or put the same crossovers in both and compare the sound before and after. I did the ALK kits in my La Scala's and the difference is astounding but you have to listen it is not going to immediate unless your old crossovers were really bad mine were 20 years old and the difference was fairly quick to notice for me. But still you need to give it some time to listen to them. You should start to hear exceptional detail, a very clear sound. The bass should tighten some as well. Also did you set up with 5/2 or 4/X tap settings. I did 4/X and am just beginning to try the 5/2 but my ears feel like they are stuffed with cotton due to a cold so I cut the test off early until my cold passes. Choose music that is detailed and intricate that you are familiar with to do the test. Also if your ears are on your dumb@$$ try standing up to listen! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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