krace Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 Does anyone have any comments about Carver Amps? Specifically the Carver 6250 Integrated?? Any comments would be appreciated. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 i have never used that particular carver model that you are referring to..... but i have used an M400t, TFM-25, and an A500x over the years..... great amps with a ton of power..... but with klipsch speakers, i would recommend either a tube solution or a new digital amp...... i personally use a carver professional ZR1000 digital amp with my KLF-30's (no connection with bob carver)..... great sound and power - much smoother than any other ss amp i've ever tried and yet with all the power that is lacking in some tube amps.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krace Posted November 23, 2004 Author Share Posted November 23, 2004 Could you explain "Digital Amp" and are theer certain brands or models you would recommend? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 That is a very open question. I am not familiar with that model. I have a Carver M1.0 that is 200 wpc or 1000w mono. This is very powerful and clear. However, you will find that the sound will be very "harsh" on a horn speaker. I've hooked the carver up to my la scalas and the result was disappointing. jc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 ---------------- On 11/23/2004 1:22:40 PM krace wrote: Could you explain "Digital Amp" and are theer certain brands or models you would recommend? ---------------- digital amps are available as separate amps or in some of the newer receiver amplifier sections.... companies that make digital amps in separates form.... Tact audio solar hi-fi spectron bel canto carver professional theta digital ps audio yamaha receivers that are available with built-in digital amps.... (on certain models) panasonic sony kenwood denon there are more companies that are involved in the digital amplifiers - but these are the ones that i can think of right now.... for a more technical explanation of how digital amps operate.... http://www.tripath.com/downloads/an1.pdf and here are a couple of links from manufacturers listed above.... http://www.carverpro.com/2003/products/zramps.html http://www.belcantodesign.com/prod_evo2.html http://www.tactlabs.com/Products/Products_Frames.htm http://www.solarhifi.com/fusion.php http://www.spectronav.com/ http://www.psaudio.com/products/gca_amplifiers.asp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 "I personally use a carver professional ZR1000 digital amp with my KLF-30's (no connection with bob carver)..... great sound and power - much smoother than any other ss amp..." This was exactly the impression I had when the Carver I borrowed was here. We actually enjoyed it very much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 dupe, dope! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted November 23, 2004 Share Posted November 23, 2004 From a previous post: Every time the name Carver appears, I just have to take a poke. There are many solid-state amps that I feel are not a good match for the super-sensitive (95 dB/w/m or more) models of Klipsch and other horn drivers. Carver is one. What he has done with class D amplifiers and small powered sub-woofers is remarkable, but his older, traditional style amps are not a good match to horns: Two decades ago, I lived with a blue-gray solid-state Carver (M1.5t?) amp capable of 750-watt peaks per channel. It was capable of sustaining 350 watts RMS into an 8 ohm load with no more than 0.5% total harmonic distortion from 20 to 20,000 Hz. It pushed 600 watts per channel RMS into 8 ohms for musically significant periods. As for the power supply, the M1.5t is regulated to charge the output stages for a brief maximum of 1200 watts. The manual warns proceed gingerly in experimenting with the joyous undistorted sound levels the M-1.5t can drive them to. Amounts of on the order available here can easily - unseat woofer voice coils, damage cone suspensions, char or fuse tweeter voice coils and even demagnetize driver motors..."! The Carver units drove my super-sensitive walnut-oiled Cornwall 1s, with their B2 crossovers, like a diesel engine on a go-cart. Lots of raw power. Every once in awhile, we would tempt fate and turn up the volume in my small 100 year old New England home. The live cannon shots on Telarcs 1812 Overture smacked the floor, tickled the toes, raised dust, rattled windows, impressed teenagers and created a tsunami sound wave big enough to flatten Tokyo. You could feel it all right. Even with out a sub woofer, my Cornwalls had no problems with this unusual musical piece. The combination of the two components however did not make music. At the low power levels that sensitive horns require, the Carver had copious amounts of THD. Carver's amps are NOT a good sounding or practical spending match with sensitive horns. I think those models were precursors to the class D and H amplifiers that power subwoofers today. The advent of the class was birthplace of powered sub-woofers. Nobody is running around saying that class D or H amps are smooth enough to drive sensitive speakers. The noisy THD of the amp wore out my ears at normal listening levels and eventually, over a period of time listening, it lost its pleasure and "stereos" fell to the bottom of my hobby list. would love to hear a digital amp... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicholtl Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 Also wanted to note that Halcro makes digital amps too. Super pricey though. Like 15 large. www.halcro.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 I too, was very impressed with Carver amps with JBL monitors and Magnepan planar loudspeakers, but as soon as I hooked up my Cornwalls, I was soon looking for other means of amplification (and found it with McIntosh SS amps and later with my 300B SET). For many years I enjoyed up to three M-400t cube amps and a newer TFM-35x, and except for one used M-400t I won on eBay that later bit the dust, all my Carver components operated and sounded flawlessly! Both my previous JBL L112 Century II monitors and Magnepan MGLR1 planars sounded great through my Carver equipment...maybe due to these loudspeakers not being very sensitive, I don't know. But when driving my super-efficient Cornwalls, the Carver amps sounded harsh and thin; not very life-like at all. Carver's components of the '80s were always considered mid-fi at best (what a shame...I always considered them better than that). Since they're not the most musical sounding components with Klipsch loudspeakers IMO, I would pretty much look elsewhere for your amplification needs. Just my two cents worth... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brap Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 Powered my Khorns for years with a 1.5Mt along with the C-1 preamp. The sonic hologram back in the day was pretty cool. I agree with previous posts. There was always a predominant hiss coming from the speakers which was annoying. There is tons of power however. Going to a simple DIY 2A3 PP 12WPC amp enlightened me to how quiet the Khorns are with a nice driving signal not to mention the soundstage. You could run thesw e with a 9V battery. I didn't like the hiss and a harsh mid to high response that Carver and Klipsch seemed to produce. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 halcro is not a digital amp. the schematics are hard to understand but it is really a "normal" SS (MOSFET) amp with some very advanced thinking in PS filtering, distortion canceling and feedback application. tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 I forgot about the hiss. That was one thing that got in the way of an otherwise good sound. I did hear that on the one amp we had here, and is an important reason why the former owner (actually he still has the amp) is now using the very quiet SE OTL from Transcendent Sound. Actually, right now he's using the amps I made, and I'm using the OTL. Also: I just wanted to share that I just now finished building the Dope From Hope minibox to use for a dedicated center channel using one Heresy and one of my Moondogs. I've very curious to hear this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 I've tried a number of Carver amps (and a "Digital Time Lens" for CD) over the years, going all the way back to the legendary Phase Linear 400. Never liked any of them. I once had a trio of his M1.5t amps in my system which were supposed to sound "tube-like". They were used for no more than 10 minutes before I took them back to the dealer. His "Magnetic Field Amplifier" was a joke. A fine example for Julian Hirsch on how "all amplifiers do not sound the same". He even admited in one of the old hi-fi rags regarding one of designs that he didn't patent the "novel circuit", only the circuit protection scheme, because it wasn't worth anything without the circuit protection. I found all of his designs NOISY. They aren't the most reliable products on the market (regardless of price). And what's worse is that the Journal Of The Audio Engineering Society actually allowed PWK to publish a very tongue-in-cheek article, "The Ultimate LSH Loudspeaker" (reprinted in the Klipsch Dope From Hope newsletters), basically slamming Bob Carver regarding a very stupid statement he made in Audio Magazine (Feb. 1972) ("Whenever a loudspeaker engineer makes an attempt to extend or smooth out the frequency response of design, or to lower distortion, the laws of physics demand that the loudspeaker become ever less efficient.") On the bright side, his products are cosmetically appealing. I've always liked their looks and consequently, repeatedly tried to like the products. And some people on this Forum will swear by them (as opposed to "swear at them" like myself). Personally I think there are much better choices out there that go better with Klipsch, solid state, and tube, if you're so inclined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnlfrazier Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 I use a Carver 6250 with a 70's pair of Khorns. The unfinished models in raw Birch. I run a pair of JBL L100's in the rear. This setup sounds great. I got the amp from ebay and should have found a 6200 with about half the power of the 6250. It has what I would call "Tone to the Bone" great for all music and DVD's. I also run a Carver ct-23 preamp w/ a pair of Mcintosh MC30's in the winter to help with the heat. At that time I alsouse a Crown D75 to power the rear speakers. If bored I trade the Mac's out for the Hafler D220. Its all good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waylyn Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 I'm probably the newest member on this forum & I have to admit that I don't own a Klipsch speaker YET. However I do own a Pioneer SX-1980, SX-950 and a hk-430. My speakers are Polk Monitor 10Bs and Pioneer HPM 900s. The reason I joined this forum is to learn more about the synergy between the hk-430 and the Klipsch. From what little I do know I would stay away from Carver and look at the hk-430 or it's bigger brother, the hk-730. Having said all of that you can now blast me for not owning Klipsch speakers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minn_male42 Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 ---------------- On 11/24/2004 3:28:27 PM waylyn wrote: I'm probably the newest member on this forum & I have to admit that I don't own a Klipsch speaker YET. However I do own a Pioneer SX-1980, SX-950 and a hk-430. My speakers are Polk Monitor 10Bs and Pioneer HPM 900s. The reason I joined this forum is to learn more about the synergy between the hk-430 and the Klipsch. From what little I do know I would stay away from Carver and look at the hk-430 or it's bigger brother, the hk-730. Having said all of that you can now blast me for not owning Klipsch speakers! ---------------- Waylan, Welcome to the forum!!! no blasting here - this is generally a very cool forum to participate in..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmikid Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 Having said all of that you can now blast me for not owning Klipsch speakers! ---------------- I joined this forum not owning Klipsh and acquired my current Heresy's thanks to it, so there's no shame. Now get rid of your junk and get Klipsched! By the way, if you insist to get crucified (how do you spell that?) you can always start a topic called SET versus PushPull. Oh, yeah, welcome, Tim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted November 24, 2004 Share Posted November 24, 2004 I don't want to break the trend and tell ya Carver is smooth,detailed and tube like etc.I will tell ya if you got some big ol' 4 ohm speakers and want to rock the Carvers I've owned would bring down the rafters and hardly break a sweat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted November 25, 2004 Share Posted November 25, 2004 To tell you the truth, the very first time I ever heard Carver and Klipsch together was way back in '80, and I was very impressed! A doctor friend heard my dad's Cornwalls and was quite excited about them afterwards. Later, he bought for his own huge music room two pairs of walnut Klipschorns, one in each corner of the room (not in quadraphonic, but in stereo), each pair driven by two Carver M-500t Magnetic Field amps, and controlled by a Carver C-4000 Sonic Hologram preamp. Hearing that system play cassette tapes of live theatre pipe organ music recorded from his two Nakamichi 680ZX tape recorders was spectacular to this teenager, and the reason why I chose Carver later on for my own audio system. Again, the Carver gear I owned never failed me, and also sounded quite life-like with my JBLs and Magnepans. But the Cornwalls brought out their deficiencies in my much smaller listening room, and so the Carver amps were replaced with better sounding McIntosh amps! If I had kept my Maggies, I'd probably still own my Carver (or updated with Sunfire products). To each their own... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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