Frzninvt Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 I am bidding on some Cornwall B-3 crossovers and it appears they have the plastic horns and the midranges that were eventually used in the '86-'90 Cornwall II. So my question is the stock B-3 compaatible with the older K-55V midrange driver? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 1, 2004 Share Posted December 1, 2004 Based on my present understanding, I would say yes. I asked a similiar question not long ago about whether or not the ALK was compatible with the K-55-M. Al's response was that both the K-55-V and K-55-M have the same output. I don't think the B3 was used for the Cornwall II, my parts list for the Cornwall II doesn't show an autotransformer. Reading your post again, I guess you were just talking about the horns? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted December 2, 2004 Author Share Posted December 2, 2004 No Dean you had it correct I was talking networks. It appears these Corns had the composite K-601's with the K-57K midranges so I was wondering if the B-3's would work with my older K-55V's. They changed the midrange cap from the B-2 (3uf) to a (5uf) on the B-3. I guess I could very easily swap out the cap if needed. Just like there were some Heresy 1.5's it appears in 1984 or 1985 before the changeover to the II's some composite horns and different midranges were used. You are correct though the Cornwall II crossover was a completely different animal than the B-3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stig Posted December 5, 2004 Share Posted December 5, 2004 ---------------- On 12/1/2004 9:01:21 PM DeanG wrote: Based on my present understanding, I would say yes. I asked a similiar question not long ago about whether or not the ALK was compatible with the K-55-M. Al's response was that both the K-55-V and K-55-M have the same output. I don't think the B3 was used for the Cornwall II, my parts list for the Cornwall II doesn't show an autotransformer. Reading your post again, I guess you were just talking about the horns? ---------------- the schematic I have for Cornwall II shows autoformer #3507. tap 0 for ground, tap 2 for input, tap 1 for output to squawker. Total of three taps shown. Tap one probably same as tap three on T2A autoformer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted December 5, 2004 Share Posted December 5, 2004 ---------------- On 12/2/2004 7:28:48 AM Frzninvt wrote: No Dean you had it correct I was talking networks. It appears these Corns had the composite K-601's with the K-57K midranges so I was wondering if the B-3's would work with my older K-55V's. They changed the midrange cap from the B-2 (3uf) to a (5uf) on the B-3. I guess I could very easily swap out the cap if needed. Just like there were some Heresy 1.5's it appears in 1984 or 1985 before the changeover to the II's some composite horns and different midranges were used. You are correct though the Cornwall II crossover was a completely different animal than the B-3.---------------- O.K. I've been wondering about using the K55 with the B-3, too. So what would one expect to hear using the K55 if the 5uf cap was not changed back to the 3uf? I have the impression, with no particular reason why, that the K57 is more efficient than the K55. Does this change in cap compensate for the difference? Is the K57 slightly more efficient than the K55? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted December 5, 2004 Share Posted December 5, 2004 Funny this should come up. If anyone can do a geaneology on Cornwalls, that would really help here. In 1992, when I acquired my 1975 Cornwalls, I wrote the company asking about upgrades. As it turned out, I had a local PA repair shop make repairs, but this is what Lisa Sinyard from AK sent me. Looks like a form from 08/29/83. The numbers in parentheses are the cost effectiveness of the upgrade, presumabley on a 1-10 scale. At the time they showed the K33B,P, or J could be updated to E model (8 effective) K51V or K55V could be 'updated'(??) to K52k or H and that the K55 was (8) and that Xover B or B2 to B3 was an (8) or (2)and that squawker should also be done at same time. They recommended fully updateing B models but not B2 models at this time. Hope this helps shed some light, but I wonder about the upgrade of a K55V to a K52H, does this sound right? Where do my K57K's that I'm buying fit into this scenario? Maybe we need a chart with CW, CWII, verticals, years and all components to fully diagram the many configurations. Seems the CW was always in an experimental or update phase. Very confusing. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomski Posted December 5, 2004 Share Posted December 5, 2004 Frzninvt I have 83 corns and they came with B-3 crossovers and I believe the squakers are the K-55Vs (metal) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCturboT Posted December 5, 2004 Share Posted December 5, 2004 ---------------- On 12/1/2004 8:10:32 PM Frzninvt wrote: I am bidding on some Cornwall B-3 crossovers and it appears they have the plastic horns and the midranges that were eventually used in the '86-'90 Cornwall II. So my question is the stock B-3 compaatible with the older K-55V midrange driver? ---------------- Frzninvt, My 1984 vintage Cornwalls had the B-3 X-over with the K-57 plastic mid horn. These had the removable backs- so they were sort of a Cornwall 1 1/2.Looks like Klipsch started changing over sooner than 1986 model IIs. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted December 6, 2004 Author Share Posted December 6, 2004 Tomski, that is interesting if you have the K-55V's. This is the response that I got from Steve Phillips at Klipsch "Well, My suggestion would be no, you could not use the B-3 with the K-55-V. There spl differences between the 55-V and 57-K, 57 is about 2 to 3 dB higher I do not have specs on them, but the network differences are easy to notice. Not sure if you have the B-3, but I will send it along. Caps and tap points are different. You may be able to just change the tap points and the mid level be correct. I would suggest that it may not cause any problems using the network, just may not sound "right." The B-3's are going right to Michael when once I receive them since he has the matching components that they were designed to work with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomski Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 Frzninvt-I just put some DeanG Xovers in a couple days ago,since I still had my cordless in the room I decided to look again. They both have B-3 Xovers,both are metal mids,and one squaker has no ink/#s on the magnet and the other has blueish ink on the magnet,although it is smeared to where you cant read the letter after the #. The 55 is clear enough to read. My corns were used as demos breifly before I bought them so maybe that has something to do with it. Tomski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted December 6, 2004 Author Share Posted December 6, 2004 If that is so then I would say that you could use the B-3 with the K-55's. Are the K-55's gray in color? If they are silver and flat they are not K-55's. A photo would confirm, now you got my curiousity going. Thanks for the info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 wooohoo, so then in the words of Nigel Tufnel (Spinal Tap) mine are ONE LOUDER!! wondering if this will be a bad thing with my harsh, tinny Yamaha receiver LOL actually, might be a good thing to have a little bit more mid for the Custom Cornwall Centers! ROCK AND ROLL! I'm getting so jazzed over this speaker building project, but may have to wait til spring, see I just moved and not one car, heck not even the lawnmower fits in the garage right now. aarrrggghhh Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomski Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 If that is so then I would say that you could use the B-3 with the K-55's. Are the K-55's gray in color? If they are silver and flat they are not K-55's. A photo would confirm, now you got my curiousity going. Thanks for the info Frzninvt Yes they are the grey/blackish with a cast iron look Unfortunately I dont have a digital camera,and like you said "now you got my curiousity going" I think your words apply to me now as well? Tomski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 The Cornwall II was released in 1985 (not 1986). Stig is right, it uses the 3507 autotransformer (as opposed to the T2A in the B, B2, and B3). My parts list didn't show an autotransformer because I evidently knew I would be using the ones from the original boards as opposed to replacing them with the UT 3619. At any rate, the drivers for the CII are the K-57-K midrange and K-79-K tweeter. I'm wondering if Steve made a typo when he wrote, "...you could not use the B-3 with the K-55-V. There are SPL differences between the 55-V and 57-K..." I think it's actually the K-57-K that can't be used with the B3. The B3 was the network used in the very early 80's with the K-55-M, and was used right up until they went to the Cornwall II with the K-57-K/K-79-K and new corresponding network. The K-55-V and K-55-M have the same sensitivity. I have no idea why Klipsch would stick a B3 network designed around the K-55-V/M and use it with the K-57-K. I think if you have a B3/K-57-K combination -- you've got the wrong network. You can't necessarily blame Klipsch though. People do all kinds of strange things to their speakers once they get them. I found the following using our searchless engine: It's an old post by Dennis (DJK) The K51V was the ceramic magnet version of the K55V driver made by Atlas. It was quite rare, Klipsch decided to go with EV making this driver desiginated as the K55M. After the K51V came the K52H. This was also a ceramic magnet driver, but with a 1-1/2" voice coil vs the K51V having a 2" voice coil. These were made by Hepner, who also made midrange and tweeters for Cerwin Vega. When Ray Hepner died Klipsch bought the tooling and started making then in-house and the drivers became a -K instead of a -H. This midrange driver eventually replaced the K55 for all new and existing models (excepting the K/B/LS). It was used in the Cornwall for quite a while before the change to the Cornwall II. The Hepner tweeter first showed up in the Kg2 and eventually replaced the K77 for all new and existing models (excepting the K/B/LS). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 Interesting. The '83 Cornwalls I own have the B2 network with the K51V, and K77 tweeters. I just looked and took a couple pics, I thought I had the B3 network.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 Are you certain about the K57K/B3 incompatiblity Dean? I just made a huge deal with Frzninvt about getting the B3's he obtained in the same auction I got K57K's out of same cabinet. Don't have s/n's yet but can't determine whether original owner(s) would have been of the ilk to make such a modification, particularly a non-approved one. Luckily I just made payment on all the above parts, so I hope that this set of components is compatible. So if I'm shopping again, what would be the correct network for the K57K/K601 combination? Michael- ready to toss the whole Custom Cornwall Center project in the trash can! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 A couple of years ago I won an Ebay auction with a B3 Xover and a K57/K601 the seller said came out of the same cabs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 Steve, Trey? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 O.K., let's look at it like this: The Type B and B2 both use the T2A with the #3 tap for the squawker. We know the Type B and B2 were used with the K-55-V and K-55-M. We know the B3 also uses the T2A, as well as the #3 tap for the squawker. We know the K-57-K has roughly 3db more output than the K-55-V/M, and the two are not interchangeable. If I'm building a Cornwall, I don't think I would use the B3 network with the K-57-K -- which is the driver for the Cornwall II, has 3db more output than the driver used with the B3, and used a network with the 3507 autotransformer. Questions I have at this point are: 1) Do the Cornwalls with the K-57-K/ B3 combination have the squawker attached to the #3 tap on the T2A? Maybe they're on the #2 tap. Someone needs to look. 2) What are the attenuation levels for the taps on the 3507? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted December 6, 2004 Share Posted December 6, 2004 Yes, please report an option here. Now I thing I'm buying a totally incompatible driver set for pretty good $$. I'm told they're out of same cabinet but can't believe the poor luck and news I'm hearing on the Forum. At least, it there a cost effective fix to the xover? A resistor in line with Squawker to soak up the 3 dB, anything? I'd hate to buy all this and then have to pay to have the xover rebuilt. Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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