Woodog Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 I've been in heaven listening to my khorns, but last week at the church where I've put my cornwalls I was stunned by the soundstage they present. I've got two pair there, and I was listening to the 2 outer corns only. They are 35 feet apart and it is a large room. So I remember reading somewhere around here how khorns are happier on the long wall if you can swing it. My room is 11 x 20, and the horns were on the short wall. That put the sweet spot about 4 feet in front of the speakers. But tonight I figured out a way to get the horns on the long wall by moving this and that, and oh my. They are definitely happier on the long wall, so am I. Right now I'm sitting in the sweet spot as I type. I might never leave the chair. What a wealth of info here! thanks y'all! forrest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Robinson Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 Forrest, yeah, pretty impressive, heh? Glad you're improving your listening situation daily Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 Forrest, Congratulations! So, the difference is in the soundstage? Obviously, that would be wider, but does it improve the depth as well? I've got mine on a 16-foot wall in a (sort-of) 16X20 foot room (I say sort-of because I am including in the 20 feet the one-step-up entry hall that is separated from the room proper by symetrical flanking low cabinetry, and a square collumn on each side. I will have to post a picture ). This is the only place in the room where they'll fit. Anyway, I experience great width of soundstage, but not great depth. This is probably due to the size of the room, but I have also been wondering if this is an inherent quality of corner placement (you can't pull them away from the corners without building false corners). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 Lucky dog! I wish my room would accomodate the long wall. My corns love the long wall in my other room. Huge difference in soundstage and depth. When I remodel my room, I'm going to add about 6 feet to get them as far apart as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 Gary, Remind me plese, how far apart are your Khorns? And the Cornwalls? Are the Corns in the corners? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodog Posted January 10, 2005 Author Share Posted January 10, 2005 ---------------- On 1/10/2005 9:15:38 AM fini wrote: Forrest, Congratulations! So, the difference is in the soundstage? Obviously, that would be wider, but does it improve the depth as well? I've got mine on a 16-foot wall in a (sort-of) 16X20 foot room (I say sort-of because I am including in the 20 feet the one-step-up entry hall that is separated from the room proper by symetrical flanking low cabinetry, and a square collumn on each side. I will have to post a picture ). This is the only place in the room where they'll fit. Anyway, I experience great width of soundstage, but not great depth. This is probably due to the size of the room, but I have also been wondering if this is an inherent quality of corner placement (you can't pull them away from the corners without building false corners). ---------------- Fini, I had read (some review) before acquiring these that the soundstage of the Khorn imaged beautifully wide, but that there wasn't much depth. I've found that to be the case in my room as well. But the sound is so glorious you forgive the lack of 'holographic' image! The cornwalls, on the other hand, throw out an incredible 3 dimensional image (IMO) if you can swing the proper placement. In the room where I have my cornwalls, the outer pair are 35 feet apart, and about 6 feet in front of the back wall. I experienced that sonic 'hologram' with the cornwalls the other day when that song 'Radar Love' (I guess that's the name) was on the radio and I was listening to the outer pair only. It was like the first time I 'got it' when I looked at those 3-D pictures where you have to relax your eyes to see the image pop out. It was really quite impressive. I later took the 'Best of Blue Note' CD (thanks GARY!!!) to the church for the same effect with better music (again, IMO). That's what got me wanting to put the khorns on the long wall. Again, the imaging of the khorns is spectacular, but there isn't much depth. I'll still keep em though! Forrest p.s. Fini, thanks for the thoughts about refinishing (in another thread), but a little Oil Soap has cleaned them up nicely. I'm going to post pics soon, I promise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott0527 Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 ---------------- On 1/10/2005 9:46:53 AM Woodog wrote: Fini, I experienced that sonic 'hologram' with the cornwalls the other day when that song 'Radar Love' (I guess that's the name) was on the radio and I was listening to the outer pair only. It was like the first time I 'got it' when I looked at those 3-D pictures where you have to relax your eyes to see the image pop out. It was really quite impressive. I later took the 'Best of Blue Note' CD (thanks GARY!!!) to the church for the same effect with better music (again, IMO). That's what got me wanting to put the khorns on the long wall. Again, the imaging of the khorns is spectacular, but there isn't much depth. I'll still keep em though! Forrest ---------------- Forrest, Please stop playing that devil music in the house of the Lord will you!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodog Posted January 10, 2005 Author Share Posted January 10, 2005 ---------------- On 1/10/2005 10:12:56 AM scott0527 wrote: Please stop playing that devil music in the house of the Lord will you!!! http://forums.klipsch.com/idealbb/images/smilies/11.gif"> http://forums.klipsch.com/idealbb/images/smilies/6.gif"> ---------------- The house of the Lord, according to the neon signs, is up the street about a mile and a half. I have no desire to talk religion here, however. I mentioned 'church' only because that's where I keep my four Cornwalls. The size of the room and the placement are what let me hear the *deep* soundstage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 congrats forrest on improving your soundstaging with the k-horns! I am surprised that the corns do a better job depth-wise, could it be a toe-in issue? I wonder what improvment might be reaped by placing the k-horns in false corners and toeing them out or in slightly? regards, tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 I originally designed my room to accomodate Khorns on the 18.5' wall. One day (20 years ago), I figured I'd "try" them on the long wall (28'). Needless to say, I was overwhelmed by the improvement and they've been there ever since. The soundstage was far more "realistic" in both perspective and scale. This was before hooking up the center speaker. The center speaker, when properly adjusted for volume level, with a properly mixed L+R signal ADDS even more depth (as well as precision) to every part of the soundstage. Khorns really need more room, adequate spacing, and some distance between them and the listener(s) (not to mention excellent acoustics)if you want to hear what the system capable of. Glad to see you also made this discovery! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 ---------------- On 1/10/2005 9:46:53 AM Woodog wrote: Fini, I had read (some review) before acquiring these that the soundstage of the Khorn imaged beautifully wide, but that there wasn't much depth. I've found that to be the case in my room as well. But the sound is so glorious you forgive the lack of 'holographic' image! The cornwalls, on the other hand, throw out an incredible 3 dimensional image (IMO) if you can swing the proper placement. In the room where I have my cornwalls, the outer pair are 35 feet apart, and about 6 feet in front of the back wall. I experienced that sonic 'hologram' with the cornwalls the other day when that song 'Radar Love' (I guess that's the name) was on the radio and I was listening to the outer pair only. It was like the first time I 'got it' when I looked at those 3-D pictures where you have to relax your eyes to see the image pop out. It was really quite impressive. I later took the 'Best of Blue Note' CD (thanks GARY!!!) to the church for the same effect with better music (again, IMO). That's what got me wanting to put the khorns on the long wall. Again, the imaging of the khorns is spectacular, but there isn't much depth. I'll still keep em though! Forrest p.s. Fini, thanks for the thoughts about refinishing (in another thread), but a little Oil Soap has cleaned them up nicely. I'm going to post pics soon, I promise. ---------------- I have to disagree with this to some extent. Khorns will blow Cornwalls away in terms of imaging a 3 dimensional image, when properly setup. The caveat is that Khorns require a specific placement location and projection angle, and consequently are more sensitive to room acoustics. Cornwalls are more forgiving and flexible. When speakers get farther and farther apart, the "hole-in-the-middle" may need a center-fill speaker, as the "sweet spot" is no longer a "spot", but more spread out and less localized. This has been known from the early Bell Lab experiments on auditory perception and has pretty much been industry standard in the motion picture industry for decades. If the Cornwalls are providing better depth of imaging and sound localization, then in all likelyhood its due to the much larger space (with better acoustics), along with your being able to control the projection angle of your choice thats making the difference, under those specific conditions. For the most part, you are not listening to the sound from the speakers. You are hearing what the room's influences on the speakers are. I've owned both speakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodog Posted January 10, 2005 Author Share Posted January 10, 2005 ---------------- On 1/10/2005 5:35:27 PM sunnysal wrote: congrats forrest on improving your soundstaging with the k-horns! I am surprised that the corns do a better job depth-wise, could it be a toe-in issue? I wonder what improvment might be reaped by placing the k-horns in false corners and toeing them out or in slightly? regards, tony ---------------- I think it's because the Cornwalls are, in effect, about 6 feet in front of the back wall. You can see the room if you do a search for the thread "New Klipsch User..." by me. I have pics of the room there, and where the Heresys were is where the 2nd pair of Cornwalls is now placed. I briefly (about the same length of time it takes to sneeze) entertained the idea of building false corners, and transporting the Khorns to the church to see what kind of depth of soundstage they would offer there, but honestly, I'm NOT that ambitious. Forrest if you are so interested, more pictures of the church's main room, pre-cornwall, are at http://www.uubgky.org/uufoto.htm Scroll down to the 4th picture, and there I am behind the partition where I keep the keyboards (blurry, of course).. but the cornwall placement I was talking about is in the corner to the left, and the corresponding corner on the far right of the room. There are no parallel surfaces in this room. There are also no good corners for the khorns if I ever did get a notion to haul them down there. (It won't happen). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IB Slammin Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 ---------------- On 1/10/2005 6:59:40 PM Woodog wrote: ---------------- On 1/10/2005 5:35:27 PM sunnysal wrote: congrats forrest on improving your soundstaging with the k-horns! I am surprised that the corns do a better job depth-wise, could it be a toe-in issue? I wonder what improvment might be reaped by placing the k-horns in false corners and toeing them out or in slightly? regards, tony ---------------- I think it's because the Cornwalls are, in effect, about 6 feet in front of the back wall. You can see the room if you do a search for the thread "New Klipsch User..." by me. I have pics of the room there, and where the Heresys were is where the 2nd pair of Cornwalls is now placed. I briefly (about the same length of time it takes to sneeze) entertained the idea of building false corners, and transporting the Khorns to the church to see what kind of depth of soundstage they would offer there, but honestly, I'm NOT that ambitious. Forrest if you are so interested, more pictures of the church's main room, pre-cornwall, are at http://www.uubgky.org/uufoto.htm Scroll down to the 4th picture, and there I am behind the partition where I keep the keyboards (blurry, of course).. but the cornwall placement I was talking about is in the corner to the left, and the corresponding corner on the far right of the room. There are no parallel surfaces in this room. There are also no good corners for the khorns if I ever did get a notion to haul them down there. (It won't happen). ---------------- Try stacking the second pair of Corns atop the first pair. Tweeter to tweeter. THEN, you will B.Slammin! Listen to the four CW's and listen to the Klipschorns. Compare the two and get back to me with your impressions of Radar Love. Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Bell Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 Some years ago I read an article written by PWK. He said always go with the long wall for better sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 Fini, My corns are in a 13x24 room and are 12 feet apart on the long wall. Having the open space to the sides really opens up the soundstage. The khorns are in a similair size room but are on the short wall (no choice). Lousy acoustics in the room but Khorns seem to find a way to sounds good nonetheless. The sweetspot is only about 10 feet back unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodog Posted January 10, 2005 Author Share Posted January 10, 2005 ---------------- On 1/10/2005 7:38:47 PM IB Slammin wrote: Try stacking the second pair of Corns atop the first pair. Tweeter to tweeter. THEN, you will B.Slammin! Listen to the four CW's and listen to the Klipschorns. Compare the two and get back to me with your impressions of Radar Love. Terry ---------------- LOL! I had to sneak the Cornwalls into the main room as it is. We have this Design and Aesthetics commitee that has to approve each and every single change that occurs with the room, and I bought and installed the 1st pair of Cornwalls without asking anyone. Amazingly enough, no one said anything. The second pair, same deal. Again, no one said anything. Stacking those beasts, if it didn't kill me, would set off the alarm bells, I'm pretty sure. However (he ponders).. I might just do it some night during the week just to see how it sounds. Might be big fun. Forrest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted January 10, 2005 Share Posted January 10, 2005 ---------------- On 1/10/2005 10:12:58 PM Woodog wrote: ---------------- On 1/10/2005 7:38:47 PM IB Slammin wrote: Try stacking the second pair of Corns atop the first pair. Tweeter to tweeter. THEN, you will B.Slammin! Listen to the four CW's and listen to the Klipschorns. Compare the two and get back to me with your impressions of Radar Love. Terry ---------------- LOL! I had to sneak the Cornwalls into the main room as it is. We have this Design and Aesthetics commitee that has to approve each and every single change that occurs with the room, and I bought and installed the 1st pair of Cornwalls without asking anyone. Amazingly enough, no one said anything. The second pair, same deal. Again, no one said anything. Stacking those beasts, if it didn't kill me, would set off the alarm bells, I'm pretty sure. However (he ponders).. I might just do it some night during the week just to see how it sounds. Might be big fun. Forrest ---------------- I'll bring the chips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 Here's the manual that came with my 83 KHorns..applied to all Heritage speakers included in the manual..Heresys, Cornwalls, LaScalas, Belles and the KHorn.. They should all be on the long wall..my music room is 21 x 15..with this ratio I should have the short wall at 13 feet..anyway, I just lean a little forward now and then.. sometimes I surprise myself when it comes to saving paperwork.... Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomac Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 I just measured and my Cornwalls are 18' apart on the long wall which is 26'. The back wall is 12' so 18' X .618 = just over 11'. Sitting on a sofa that is up against the rear wall, I should be in the zone right? I have them towed in a little and the imaging is quite good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 according to the manual (which featured a note from PWK) you are on the money..I should have brushed up on that manual before finalizing my music room plans! BTW I tried the short wall one time as an experiment..and it was HORRIBLE! I must have had standing waves or something, as the bass was unbearable! I had an extra copy of this manual, and sent it to Klipsch for their archives. I don't believe they had one. Really. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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