mmmalmberg Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 I have a pair of old Hereseys which have been living in the garage for a while, got them at an estate sale for less than $100. These have cane grilles, a blond mahogany sort of looking veneer, and are in pretty nice shape. But they sound a bit droopy compared to what I imagine they should sound like. Here's some info from them: Model: H700 Heresey Type: H-M2-12 Serial # 2G405 Inside, crossover type appears to be "C" but hard to read. It has a 2 uF 600V square can cap (WestCap) and another (Aerovox) which I can't read the value but it's rated 1000 VDC and is oozing some orange goop. Woofer = K-22 Mid = K-55-V Tweet = K-77 1/2" plywood backs. They seem to lack a bit of punch at either end - the highs are muted and the bass is not particularly impactful. They don't sound bad, just not quite hi-fi. They sound lifeless next to a pair of KEF Coda-90's I have, for instance. So, not being a Klipschionado (although I do also own a pair of their pro audio 12" 3-way PA speakers), are these worth pursuing? What would be obvious updates? I'm guessing the drivers are OK and maybe just finding some new caps might bring something back? Anyone know how old they are? Thanks much for any info and/or thoughts about these. Mark M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olorin Posted January 24, 2005 Share Posted January 24, 2005 It sounds like some crossover repair is in order. Edit: Never mind the rest I said, I should read more carefully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleJ Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 I believe that they are 68's. http://home.earthlink.net/~ivol/klipsch_cornwall/klipsch_date_codes.htm I don't know who to give credit, but I use this site alot to help in dating speakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodger Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 Those are original model H700 Heresys. If the woofer is an Electro-Voice, they are most likely mid to late 1960s. On the woofer and mid how is the pwk? dodger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted January 25, 2005 Share Posted January 25, 2005 Think that you are right that new caps on the crossovers would be helpful. Bob Crites (BEC) on this forum is a convenient source for them. Hearing you describe the sound, I sure wonder if the tweeter diaphragms are sound. If you can hear them they probably are, but would require putting one's ear close to confirm. I'd think they should sound pretty similar to your pro audio Klipsch speakers, but haven't had the opportunity to hear them. Maybe someone could chime in on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmalmberg Posted January 25, 2005 Author Share Posted January 25, 2005 Thanks, all. Dodger, if you mean the logos, it's the same on all drivers and on the grill, the old logo with the backward P, the PWK sitting over a big V. The woofer has a square magnet structure. Daddy Dee, Does BEC provide some sort of NOS caps, or can one use Solens or other popular caps, or is it critical to use a particular new cap? I know there are discussions of cap replacements around this forum but I don't think I saw anything for this old a unit, but it was a while ago I originally looked. They certainly don't sound anything like my Klipsch PA speakers, 'though they are the same size and format. Would be great if they could end up sounding more similar, that is for sure. I should probably disconnect the tweeters and see if it sounds any different... Again, thanks for these and any forthcoming thoughts. Mark M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnA Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 "G" is 1968. You need to have the crossovers rebuilt. You could also upgrade to the Type E for those drivers and have the sound of the later models of Heresy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott0527 Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 The way I understand it, those Hersey's should have the 16ohm woofer which need to have the Type C network. In '72 or '73 they changed to using an 8ohm woofer and changed the network to a Type E. I'm guessing that the 16ohm woofer had an orange surround, the 8 ohm didin't. In my 71 Hersey's, the woofer had been replaced with the newer 8 ohm woofer but the crossover was never updated. They sounded just like you described. At that point, I reworked my C network into an E network and they sounded great. The C and the E were close, but the C used a different capacitor, different taps on the Ta2, and was wired differently. In any event, it sounds like you need to rebuild those crossovers, oozing goo can't be good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodger Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 Having the logo you stated, confirms 1968. To answer your question, yes they are worth keeping and updating the cross-overs. they are a good find. Congratulations dodger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmalmberg Posted January 26, 2005 Author Share Posted January 26, 2005 Well, this is getting more interesting:) I have ordered caps from Bob to update the crossover to "E", as suggested. So now, the woofers... They don't have an impedance marked on them, just the number 4171 stamped onto the label. They do have an orangish cloth surround, and a stamped steel frame. This will be intesting, if it turns out I'm wiring a 16-ohm woofer with the later network designed for 8 ohms. I've no idea what the result of that would be. Sure not looking to replace the woofers at this point. I did put my ear to the tweeters and my belief is they are working, just muted. I guess I'll post my findings once I have rewired/rebuilt the networks. Perhaps I should first, however, resolve this issue with the woofer spec. Can the impedance be measured with DC, i.e. a vu meter? Thanks one and all... Mark M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmalmberg Posted January 26, 2005 Author Share Posted January 26, 2005 Well the DC resistance of the woofer voice coil is in the neighborhood of 6.5 ohms. So perhaps these are the 8-ohm woofers and just as suggested need the later xover in which case I'm feeling good... hope so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott0527 Posted January 26, 2005 Share Posted January 26, 2005 Well I'm pretty sure those are the 16 ohm woofers if you have the orange surround and No, you don't want to replace those. Someone will have to chime in on whether you should update to the E. I would say no, just rebuild the crossover as a C. I don't think anybody has a C schematic, but I made notes on mine that I can dig out if needed. The C used a 2uf cap and a 1uf cap, the E used two 2uf caps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
formica Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 ---------------- On 1/26/2005 8:54:22 PM mmmalmberg wrote: Well the DC resistance of the woofer voice coil is in the neighborhood of 6.5 ohms. So perhaps these are the 8-ohm woofers and just as suggested need the later xover in which case I'm feeling good... hope so. ---------------- Assuming you measure the driver disconnected from the x-over... sounds like the 8ohm variety. Don't be shy and ask Bob about the switch... he is quite helpful. ---------------- On 1/26/2005 9:25:08 PM scott0527 wrote: Well I'm pretty sure those are the 16 ohm woofers if you have the orange surround and No, you don't want to replace those. Someone will have to chime in on whether you should update to the E. I would say no, just rebuild the crossover as a C. I don't think anybody has a C schematic, but I made notes on mine that I can dig out if needed. The C used a 2uf cap and a 1uf cap, the E used two 2uf caps. ---------------- My understanding is recone kits were offered with either the orange or black surrounds, in either 8ohm or 16 ohms. I have a pair of 8ohm Alnico K22 with the orange reconed surronds... as well as some with black surronds. Later... Rob PS: It's my opinion that the Heresys are pretty bass SHY by design... they aren't a Klipschorn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmalmberg Posted January 27, 2005 Author Share Posted January 27, 2005 I think I may need to try to measure the impedance with an ac load to be sure, given these variables. Would the later 8-ohm speakers have the same older logo on the back? Were the 16 and 8 ohm versions both refered to as K-22's? thanks... Mark M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted January 27, 2005 Share Posted January 27, 2005 I don't have a schematic of the Type C crossover, but I think the woofer circuit in the C and E may be identical with just a 2.5 mH inductor. Also, you may want to note that the Klipsch schematic for the Type E crossover states at the woofer output: K-33-E 11 ohms. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmalmberg Posted January 28, 2005 Author Share Posted January 28, 2005 I don't know the value of the inductor in the "C", which is marked 2133. Comparing to the Type E diagram, the woofer wiring is identical. It appears to me, if I'm not crazy, that the woofer is out of phase with the squawker and tweeter in the Type E configuration, and in phase in the C configuration. Bob I've done a sketch of the C schematic which I can email to you (or anyone...) if you're interested. The tweeter goes to the #2 tap through a 2.1uF cap. The squawker is going to tap #1, and the woofer goes through the inductor and a 1uF cap to tap #5. So in any case I'm figuring the woofer's probably not a problem, although I don't know if there's a correlation between the woofer impedance and the selection of cap values - ? Should I drive these units off the 16 ohm output of my amp? Why would the phasing be different between these two crossovers? thanks... Mark M. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 "It appears to me, if I'm not crazy, that the woofer is out of phase with the squawker and tweeter in the Type E configuration, and in phase in the C configuration." Reversing the squaker leads was a positive change made by Klipsch in the early seventies and continued. A bulletin was sent to Klipsch dealers to rewire all their stock with the reversed connections. Information about this can be found in the "Dope From Hope" papers. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted January 28, 2005 Share Posted January 28, 2005 The 2133 should be a 2.5 mH inductor. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hurdy_gurdyman Posted January 29, 2005 Share Posted January 29, 2005 Thought I should mention that my 1975 Heresy's have an orange surround with 8 ohm woofers. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmmalmberg Posted January 29, 2005 Author Share Posted January 29, 2005 Well that seals the deal on woofer confusion, I'm sure I'd need to measure to know for sure at this point. I'll probably go one step at a time, get some new caps in there, test with different wirings of the crossover and see where that gets me, based on sound.. Clearly given the differences between the C and E networks there's some room to play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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