Frzninvt Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 Khorns are not a waste in the rear I can assure you. I started with La Scala's & HII's, then Cornwalls & HII's, then two pairs of Cornwalls to my current Khorns & vertical Cornwalls. Each step yielded an improvement for the better! The Khorns in the rear made a big difference in the over performance, the vertical Cornwalls are the icing on the cake. I cannot see why it would not work, it certainly would not sound bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 Sorry, Got coyotee mixed up with oteedee jc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted January 30, 2005 Author Share Posted January 30, 2005 ---------------- On 1/30/2005 7:07:31 AM jwcullison wrote: Sorry, Got coyotee mixed up with oteedee jc ---------------- I'm sure I've been called worse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted January 30, 2005 Author Share Posted January 30, 2005 ---------------- On 1/30/2005 3:11:17 AM jheis wrote: Please correct me if I'm wrong (and I'm sure someone will ), but as I understand it, in HT only the front 2 channels are stereo while center, sub, surround and rear channels are all getting a mono signal. Seems a waste to use Khorns for rear channel "fill." James ---------------- James, while I don't know the technical answer, don't miss over my point (to the degree you are referring to any of my comments) that in addition to HT being in this basement room, with potentially my K-horns as my rears, I will ALSO comingle a 2 channel system in same room using same K-horns. I'll probably use my old yamaha 2070 (??) that I have (I forget it's number and always have to go look) Perhaps I'll get a new one. I'll use my Peach along with 2 2A3's for quiet, critical listening, and I WAS going to also use my Jolida 502 for when I want some serious thump. given I've gone through some tubes with two brand new Jolidas, I might end up selling it and march my hiney over the my McIntosh dealer and look into getting a Mac power amp that hovers in the vicinity of 100 wpc . Before anyone castrates me, yes, I KNOW that is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy overkill and I'll probably not go that big, but when I use THAT horsepower, I'm usually not in the room, or indeed, not even on that floor of house....heck... I might be down by the dock or at my neighbors Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 ---------------- On 1/30/2005 3:11:17 AM jheis wrote: Please correct me if I'm wrong (and I'm sure someone will ), but as I understand it, in HT only the front 2 channels are stereo while center, sub, surround and rear channels are all getting a mono signal. Seems a waste to use Khorns for rear channel "fill." James ---------------- It's been a while since you looked at surround, eh bro? In Dolby DTS, Dolby DTS-EX, Dolby Digital, and even Dolby PLIIx, the five main channels and the sub are all receiving discrete signals. The "surround back" speakers, depending on the processor, are receiving some sort of matrixed pseudo-stereo produced from a single sixth channel. We're a long, long way removed from the old ProLogic, where the surrounds and the center were receiving summed info derived from the stereo pair, friend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 to add to bro Griff's points, modern Dolby Digital and DTS also deliver full range 20-20K signals to all 'surround' speakers, not just the limited bandwidth delivered in the old ProLogic days. For all these reasons it is desirable to have as close a match not only across the three front speakers, but front and rear as well. The only 'specialty' speakers would be the subwoofer (required for 5.1 and above) and possibly center channel (where dialog is all important). Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fletcherkane Posted January 30, 2005 Share Posted January 30, 2005 Sell your academies for a mint. They are considered by many to be the "Holy Grail" of Center channels, especially for the Forte and Forte II's. There are many guys on this forum looking for one (me included), and trust me, the scuffing on the undersides will probably not be an issue. They are that rare of a find. I know my jaw hit the floor when you said that you had 3 of them, and not in use. Selling those three, you could fill out your Heritage Home Theater with just about anything you wanted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyclonecj Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 ---------------- On 1/29/2005 8:54:27 AM j-malotky wrote: ......I have my sides and rears flying. In my exparements, I found having the speakers over your head gives you a more 3D surround effects like the dipole can do. JM ---------------- JM.. I am glad to see this confirmed for me. Since I recently added a pair of cornwalls to my collection (they are not going to the school), I have been trying to figure out a way to use them as rear surrounds, however I have found that they do not work as well as my "lifted" Heresy's. I had always thought it was because of my high-back sofa, which places the horns too low for ear shot. I have spent the last week trying to find a way to lift the Corn's without making a scene. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shade Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 I have been trying to figure out a way to use them as rear surrounds, however I have found that they do not work as well as my "lifted" Heresy's. I had always thought it was because of my high-back sofa, which places the horns too low for ear shot. I have spent the last week trying to find a way to lift the Corn's without making a scene. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- I've been wondering about this sort of thing for a while. Lascallas, cornwalls, and several other heritage speakers seem fairly short. Since they would probably be below ear level, does this cause any problems? Do they need to elevated off the ground, or do they work out fine at that height? The only heritage speakers I've had the chance to hear were khorns, and those are anything but short. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwardre Posted January 31, 2005 Share Posted January 31, 2005 I have recently upgraded my surrounds to Khorns from Corns and the difference is dramatic. I don't know if it is the ear level thing like Mr Shady pointed out, but whatever it is I can vouch that having Khorns in all 4 corners is NOT a waste of good Khorn wood. Puts the sound at ear level. My front and rear centers are Belles. A SVS 20-39 provides the LFE effects, and all 6 Klipsch speakers are set to FULL. Also, keep in mind that the rear center (or rear two) as differentiated from the 2 surrounds, do in some instances have discrete information coming out of them. DTS-ES and I think DD6.1-EX both use the rear center as a discrete channel. When you put two speakers in that role (effectively making the "7" in 7.1), then this rear center is matrixed into 2 rear speaker channels. In any event, the 1 or 2 channels back there are not waste material and you will be better off using as good a speaker as you can! Why?? BECAUSE YOUR SYSTEM ONLY SOUNDS AS GOOD AS THE WEAKEST SPEAKER(s) WITHIN.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jheis Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 I stand corrected. However, I still think Khorns in the rear and LaScalas in front is certainly less than optimal. The rear channel is still getting the least "discrete" signal and is mainly being used for the surround effect in HT. On the other hand, with a 2 channel source, my B&K Ref 50 gives me 7 channel stereo (actually 6 channel stereo because the center channel is still getting a mono signal). So, if your pre/pro does something similar - other than for HT, having your "prime" speakers in the rear wouldn't be to bad, but you might have to turn your listening chair around . By the way Coytee, if you need a Niles DSP-1, I have two of them I'm not using. One of them was used for about a week before I bought my Ref 50 and the other one is brand new in the box, never opened - say $55 each if you're interested. James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjgeraci Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 James, good thoughts, suggestions, and offers for Coytee. When I initially moved to an all Heritage front (Belles and Vertical Cornwall), I moved my RF-7s to the rear to use as rear surrounds and ran them off of my Classe pre/pro (which has similar 6 channel processing as your B&K). While this worked great for movies and multichannel discrete, the two-channel sound of the RF-7s was still somewhat lacking. I ended up acquiring another preamp to go with the RF-7s (Marantz 7T) so that I could run a better two-channel setup with my rears - and it is switched over by a Niles DPS-1. So, for the rear, my RF-7s get either the Marantz 7T/Dynaco Mark IIIs (2-channel) or Classe pre/Rotel SS amp (as rear surrounds). Since Coytee plans on using two-different amps for his K-horns, another inexpensive 2-channel pre/pro would do his 2-channel K-horn setup justice (along with one of your Niles). Owning a Peach, I don't see a way to do what he wants - at least while running two different amps for the K-horns. It should work with one amp though (with the HT bypass). Peach owners, am I missing something here? Carl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olorin Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 ---------------- On 2/2/2005 5:15:08 AM jheis wrote: I stand corrected. However, I still think Khorns in the rear and LaScalas in front is certainly less than optimal. The rear channel is still getting the least "discrete" signal and is mainly being used for the surround effect in HT. James ---------------- Um, discrete is discrete. There is no less discrete, more discrete, moderately discrete, or supremely discrete. It is discrete or it is not. Not discrete is matrixed. DD 5.1 and DTS 5.1 and 6.1 are not matrixed. At least two posters have commented on their experience at upsizing their surrounds. That experience was positive. What you have here is empirical data supporing the theory that, with five discrete channels of full-range information, surround speakers that match the main speakers are a boon. With all due respect, it's time you shifted your paradigm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 Well put, Olorin. The dark days of Pro-Logic, with its wimpy underpowered back channels that deliver nothing more than a delayed version of the extreme left and right panned information from the mains, at much lower volumes, and even wimpier cheezball surround speakers that barely moved at maximum power, are gone. The new 5 and 6 channel discrete surround mixes, with balanced amplifiers that deliver equal power to all channels, demands a different paradigm, one that recognizes the need for timbre and efficiency matching around the entire room, to create a full and vibrant surround effect the way the engineers who mixed the given projects imagined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jheis Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 Griff & Olorin: My point is not that you can or should use cheesy speakers for your rear or surround channels, but rather that your processer is sending most of the information to the front and center channel speakers. Khorns will certainly work for rear channels, and I'm sure LaScalas make great front channel speakers, but it is not the optimal use of Coytee's equipment. James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted February 2, 2005 Author Share Posted February 2, 2005 Thanks guys. Yeah, to reiterate, the room dictates Khorns on the left side and LaScalas on right side, hopefully hidden under the stairwell behind a screen I build into the wall. If the wifey "lets" me put the HT system on the left side of the room, then the Khorns will be my mains. If she (continues) to insist it must go on the RIGHT side of the room, then my LaScalas will become my mains. (HT system above, is defined as the viewing screen which was probably obvious to you all) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griffinator Posted February 2, 2005 Share Posted February 2, 2005 ---------------- On 2/2/2005 5:29:16 PM jheis wrote: Griff & Olorin: My point is not that you can or should use cheesy speakers for your rear or surround channels, but rather that your processer is sending most of the information to the front and center channel speakers. Khorns will certainly work for rear channels, and I'm sure LaScalas make great front channel speakers, but it is not the optimal use of Coytee's equipment. James ---------------- I'm sorry, James, but you're wrong on this point. Where the information is going is completely dependant on the information provided by the DVD. Most modern surround mixes are heavily employing the rear 3 channels to enhance the movie-watching experience. If you need empirical data to support this notion, just watch the rainstorm chapter of Tombstone - right after Russell's brother gets shot and he goes out in the middle of the rain and freaks out. Tell me again that most of the info is going to the front three, and I'll tell you that you don't have your system properly calibrated, nor are you employing proper timbre-matched speakers to appreciate the effect. The first time I played that section on a client's system (after I calibrated it for the room) with timbre-matched three-way LCR's in a 7.1 configuration, I stopped and looked out the window to make certain the weather hadn't suddenly turned - it was that dramatic an effect. This is the kind of impact high-quality rear speakers can have on a system, and it's an impact I recommend to anyone who has the option of making it happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jheis Posted February 3, 2005 Share Posted February 3, 2005 Griff: Perhaps I didn't word it correctly but, obviously, the processor is sending the information were the source tells it - which is primarily to the front and center channels - not that the surround and rear channels are unimportant. I agree that you should use the best equipment you can afford all around. That said; you're right, I'm wrong. Coytee's system will sound EXACTLY the same regardless of whether he uses the LaScalas for the front channels and the Khorns for the rear or the Khorns for the front channels and the LaScalas for the rears. You win. Goodnight. James Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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