J.4knee Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 The other thing that has been rolling around in my mind was a comment Nick made about listening to different type of music on different sources and speakers in another post. I too heard a reduction in the high-end detail on the selections he spoke of and a difference in SS vs. tubes for that detail. I got to thinking we were listening to Andys ALKs on 5/2 so I swapped mine from the 4/X to 5/2 and did not notice much loss of crispness but I have a solid state amp (receiver actually) , my source is different source and the only thing I tested that I could compare to the session we had was the Craig Chaquico/ Russ Freeman disk. OK here is what I see when listened to my system. The highs are crisper on SS than they were on the tubes. Now having said that I digress back to my earlier comment about matching up a SS preamp with Tomss VRDs. The soundstage was noticeably smaller. However when I listen to SS across the board I dont notice it. Now what I lack is the depth of bass provided by the K-horns, man I really wish I bought a pair when I had the chance when I was in the Navy and of course Toms Peach/VRDs to make a really valid comparison. Maybe this whole exercise is just a weak attempt at validation of my system in my own head but I do believe there is some merit to matching tube on tube and SS on SS. Dean also brought to light the difference of Titanium tweeter in RF 7s vs. the K77s. I definitely believe there is merit to that as well, didnt PWK like the result of adding the K76 to the HIIs better than the K77s in the original Heresys? The extended range fills in better even though it is out of reach of mine if not most of our hearing. For dynamic presentation and sound envelopment I believe the Tube combo does a nicer job and SS does off some high end detail enhancement by being a more accurate reproduction albeit perhaps a less musical one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Blacksmith Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 For the record, YES I AM A BIG GUY! There I said it, if it were as easy to change as admit, I would look like Nick! Jim, that was a great description of what you heard. Very interesting. I agree that there were many changes so a direct apples to apples comparison is impossible. I must say that either of the systems Peach/VRD or VTL/Sonic Frontiers would and do make me very happy. The reason Andy changed the taps on the ALKs is that when we played some music I was familiar with (Buddy Guy, nothing but the blues) there was a definite lack of high end. The sizzle of the cymbals was missing and the drums just didnt sound right, like a blanket was thrown over the speakers. Once the taps were changed, all that was missing came back in spades and once again I was hearing the edge on the music as knew it sounded. This might account for a little of the smoothness you are talking about. Another thing is that the VTL is nearly 20 years old and things change over time, both electronics and what the electronics were supposed to sound like. I guess I really should send the unit in to get a once over but it just sounds so good now to me that it is hard to justify spending the money. Even though it was made only 40 miles from my home and they would be happy to look at it, there is a several month backlog of repair work and I dont want to be without good music that long! This hobby is indeed a solitary one. If one is lucky, as Andy and Jim are, you have a wife (or husband (if you are a lady reading this)) that is into music as much as you are and you can share the experience. Alas, my wife is happy with noise of any sort and REALLY doesnt hear the difference between my audio setup and the cheep $2.00 speakers that came with her computer she says the only difference she hears is that I play my music too loud! She would not even be a good candidate for Blose speakers, she doesnt hear the difference anyway! Ah well, she DOES allow me to chase the moving target of great sounding audio without much comment or complaint so even though she doesnt share in the sound, I am blessed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 ---------------- On 2/22/2005 8:56:14 AM Cal Blacksmith wrote: For the record, YES I AM A BIG GUY! There I said it, if it were as easy to change as admit, I would look like Nick! ---------------- Me too, Wayne! We ought to get together sometime. Then we'll see how big those puny Khorns look to Nick... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 Greek versions of this get together are not looking particularly likely sadly. Jealous as hell over here. Looks like you all had a blast! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 Max, I'm up for a trip to Greece! Listen to music. Visit some of my old stomping grounds. Eat a ton of souvlaki. It would be cool. Requires some planning and I am not bringing any equipment. Fini, You're a big guy? I always imagined you as more the skinny beatnik type guy. Like Nick - but less fashionable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 ---------------- On 2/22/2005 9:52:49 AM Anarchist wrote: Fini, You're a big guy? I always imagined you as more the skinny beatnik type guy. Like Nick - but less fashionable. ---------------- I crap bigger than Nick... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 Thanks for the great thread guys! Wayne you look like a blacksmith, why would you want to look like a toothpick? Sorry Nick, you'll fill out when you reach puberty. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 Just remember one thing. My boy Nick has a mighty fine girlfriend if you all remember the photo. I do dig the pictures though. It appears Nick is only about 4 Coors Light's from front to back, while Wayne could fit a case of Coors. He does look like a 'proper' blacksmith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedball Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 I'll volunteer to personally hand rub the power cords just so all that equipment is happy to recieve the power. The glowing color of those K-Horns is a real treat! I can't figure why our local dealer will not stock at least one pair of K-Horns, I know they would sell and it would introduce lot's of people to them {especially me}. Oh well, maybe slim trim and teeny tiny is the name of the game nowdays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyKubicki Posted February 22, 2005 Author Share Posted February 22, 2005 Wow...all these posts to read and react...my ISP went down last night just as I was posting...I hate when that happens! Reacting first to Nick's colorful language (very nice writing!): And the first thing I noticed, the first thing that hit me like a slug to the chest, was not the striking interior decoration. It was not Andy's fine selection of equipment gleaming atop his Cherry finished cabinet like fake teeth. It wasn't even the evil Grin Tom shot over at me that almost had me crying for Mommy. It was The Mighty Klipsch Horns. I've never before seen these things in real life. My freaking God, these things are big! And here I thought my RF7's were monoliths! Oh no siree, I beg to differ, Andy had them sitting in each corner of his expansive wall, flanking his rack of drool-worthy gear. Utterly pristine in their condition, cloth grills as soft and fluffy as a baby rabbit, they were a stunning sight to behold. That, and the Belvedere sitting on top. Calling my name... (thank you though, Andy, for providing the much appreciated libations). My poor KHorns do need either refinnishing or veneering, but I can understand not noticing those shortcomings...the sound makes up for looks! This is a very interesting reaction after having read the other post here a few days ago about the RF7 vs KHorns. Nick, I though I did offer you a shot of the Belvedere, my apologies if I did not...I would have joined you in a drink! There is a story behind this fine Polish Vodka. Pictured on the bottle is the Belvedere Palace, which was built by my great great great uncle, Jakub Kubicki. http://www.poland.net/castles/mazovia/warsaw.shtml (That would sure make a nice home for my KHorns!) I wish my great uncle would have passed down some of his talents....I would not have been driving a truck for a living today! At least I can enjoy the architecture as I feel good drinking this fine Vodka! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyKubicki Posted February 22, 2005 Author Share Posted February 22, 2005 Craig laments: Andy, The end bells on Tom's VRD's were suppose to be replaced by Tom with some chromed versions he had done in LA. The End Bells that are on his amps were beat up ones I had around here I took a dremmel too the bottom so they could be removed without completely disassembling the amps. But Old Tom has procrastinated on replacing the end bells. I knew that! I had to give you a hard time about something . I was ready for a stronger reaction...Tom must have warned you! Despite my telling Tom they should cool down for about a week, he took them with him...darn! So I would not mind any production rejects if you have any with any ugly parts! Just send 'em over! Dean, If I do this again, and I would like to, it's just a matter of time permitting, I'll let you know early enough to send over any X-overs you would like to have listened to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyKubicki Posted February 22, 2005 Author Share Posted February 22, 2005 ---------------- On 2/21/2005 11:04:58 PM Marvel wrote: So you really have to explain -- Global On-Reflection Giant Gathering ---------------- Are you familiar with Gentle Giant? http://www.blazemonger.com/GG/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyKubicki Posted February 22, 2005 Author Share Posted February 22, 2005 ---------------- On 2/22/2005 1:40:04 AM J.4knee wrote: The other thing that has been rolling around in my mind was a comment Nick made about listening to different type of music on different sources and speakers in another post. I too heard a reduction in the high-end detail on the selections he spoke of and a difference in SS vs. tubes for that detail. I got to thinking we were listening to Andys ALKs on 5/2 so I swapped mine from the 4/X to 5/2 and did not notice much loss of crispness but I have a solid state amp (receiver actually) , my source is different source and the only thing I tested that I could compare to the session we had was the Craig Chaquico/ Russ Freeman disk. OK here is what I see when listened to my system. The highs are crisper on SS than they were on the tubes. Now having said that I digress back to my earlier comment about matching up a SS preamp with Tomss VRDs. The soundstage was noticeably smaller. However when I listen to SS across the board I dont notice it. Now what I lack is the depth of bass provided by the K-horns, man I really wish I bought a pair when I had the chance when I was in the Navy and of course Toms Peach/VRDs to make a really valid comparison. Maybe this whole exercise is just a weak attempt at validation of my system in my own head but I do believe there is some merit to matching tube on tube and SS on SS. Dean also brought to light the difference of Titanium tweeter in RF 7s vs. the K77s. I definitely believe there is merit to that as well, didnt PWK like the result of adding the K76 to the HIIs better than the K77s in the original Heresys? The extended range fills in better even though it is out of reach of mine if not most of our hearing. For dynamic presentation and sound envelopment I believe the Tube combo does a nicer job and SS does off some high end detail enhancement by being a more accurate reproduction albeit perhaps a less musical one. ---------------- I would like some day to get the Audire amp to match the preamp and listen to that combo, though I am very happy with tubes. The synergy might not exist for that pre with tube amps. In theory, what we like with tubes is the coloration (aka distortion). SS is probably more acurate in terms of the input signal/output signal comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyKubicki Posted February 22, 2005 Author Share Posted February 22, 2005 Jim, I was surprized at his immediate reaction to the ALKs. I've had mine for a while now and have gotten used to them, but I remember the day I put them in and how wonderfully detailed everything sounded. That was a major upgrade for me, right up there with switching to tubes and Wayne's Spin Clean for records! Jim writes: We seemed to settle the question of Redbook CDs vs. SACDs when we A/Bd Dave Brubecks Time Out in both formats. The clear winner was eth SACD, Toms Sony did justice all the way around. Nicks Classe sat up and sang for us as well Let's not forget that when we played the SACD and Redbook version of Celine's All the Way, the difference was more subtle, which says that the Brubeck SACD must have been remastered as well. Now that can also be a tribute to Sony's Redbook recording and mastering of this CD, for it to sound fairly close to the SACD version shows that though Redbook is limmited, it can get close when done right. Wayne opines: This hobby is indeed a solitary one. If one is lucky, as Andy and Jim are, you have a wife (or husband (if you are a lady reading this)) that is into music as much as you are and you can share the experience. Alas, my wife is happy with noise of any sort and REALLY doesnt hear the difference between my audio setup and the cheep $2.00 speakers that came with her computer she says the only difference she hears is that I play my music too loud! She would not even be a good candidate for Blose speakers, she doesnt hear the difference anyway! Ah well, she DOES allow me to chase the moving target of great sounding audio without much comment or complaint so even though she doesnt share in the sound, I am blessed. My wife is not into the hobby nearly as much as I am, but we do share a love and passion for music, though not the same music ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicholtl Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 This is so cool. We're all still savoring the experience like the whole ordeal was just today! And yes, for the record, I AM A SKINNY GUY! Andy, that's awesome about you and the Belvedere. All the rappers who flow about it in their songs should give you a "shout out." Maybe next time we'll throw a couple down the ol' hatch. Thanks Anarchist for getting my back! Oh, and Wayne, if you weren't a powerfully built guy, nobody would trust you as a blacksmith. It's like trusting a rail-thin chef. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Blacksmith Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 Nick, you are being too kind, thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyKubicki Posted February 22, 2005 Author Share Posted February 22, 2005 This is unbelievable! I was just listening to my recently re-cleaned record and noticed that the bass was very much more balanced to the right. Now, there can be a small difference as the left corner is not a tight corner, but when I panned all the way left, all the bass was gone! I have no idea when, but we blew the fuse on the x-over! I wonder if we listened to it that way for some time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Blacksmith Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 I can't guess when that could have happened. The bass was tight and solid until I left anyway, remember, we watched/listened to your DVD and it sounded great! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyKubicki Posted February 22, 2005 Author Share Posted February 22, 2005 Right! It took me a full song to notice the balance was way off...Maybe the fuze was just brave...hung in there despite all the current it took and when the performance was over, like an old soldier, it just faded away! After you guys left I toned it WAY down with that Yo Yo Ma DVD, and I was in the kitchen, so not in front of the horns. Well, new fuze in place and the bass is balanced again! But it is a funny thought that we may have been listening that way...NOT! Someone would have noticed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted February 22, 2005 Share Posted February 22, 2005 Hey Nick - Don't worry about the "skinny guy" comments. Some day you'll be old and fat like the rest of us. Funny you guys should mention the Brubeck SACD. It's one that always seems to show up at these events. When Boomac was over for a visit a couple months back, we compared the SACD, the original LP and the digitally recorded LP on my system (Khorns/Sony 555ES/Basis TT). The original LP won by a pretty good margin, followed by the SACD, while the digitally recorded LP didn't fare well at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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