Never thought I'd hear sound better than Khorns

[Hardhead]

Wait a minute, now. I'm not trying throw a clod into the churn, but we're assuming that Klipsch Audio Technologies owns the rights to produce the Jubilee. Do we know FOR SURE who owns those rights?

[Daddy Dee]

Hardhead,

Yep, I think that is a safe assumption.

[Hardhead]

It may be a safe assumption and still not be true. Do we KNOW?

[greg928gts]

The Jubilee is right there! Just buy the bass horn, put some veneer on it, and find a nice mid/tweet horn to go with it.

My guess is that PWK and others at Klipsch have probably tried a number of mid horns to go with the Jubilee bass bin. In other words, there really isn't a Jubilee speaker per say, there are many iterations of them. The real meat of the Jubilee is the new bass bin AND KLIPSCH MAKES THAT NOW!!!

Chris - yes I realize it's a three way, and I bet it sounds darn nice too. It's the bass bins that are of interest to everyone, AND THEY'RE RIGHT THERE FOR CRYIN OUT LOUD! All this talk about wishing Klipsch made the Jubilee . . . . cripes, am I the only one who can see that it's right there. If there was really a market for these at $15K a pair, it seems to me that Klipsch would be selling lots of Jubilee bass bins.

How about this, buy a pair of the Klipsch Jubilee bass bins and buy an old pair of La Scalas and make a new top horn section using the La Scala components. A few tweaks, a little Sapele veneer, a little oil . . . and there you have it.

I still say the Jubilee bass bins are not that hard to build. Isn't someone over in Updates and Mods building a pair?

Tell you what, I'll set up a shop here in Maine, hire a few cabinet makers that I know, and we'll make a production run of Jubilee speakers. The cabinets will be built with MDF and custom veneered with the customers choice of veneer once they place their order with a deposit. Dean can make the crossovers, we can find a supplier for horns, (maybe Klipsch has something already on the shelf), and there's plenty of choices out there for woofers. I bet we could build them for less than $15K a pair and still make a tidy profit.

Greg

[ben.]

Greg,

Doesn't the Pro Jub have two 12s in the bass horn, and the home version two 15s?

[customsteve01]

Trey just posted on the pilgramage tread that

all we need is 50 prepaid orders....$20k

With that I bet we can get-r-done......

Steve

[ben.]

I can do it with 30 PP orders at half that price. Email/Pm for my Paypal address.

[greg928gts]

I'm with you Ben. There's no need to spend $20K on a pair of those. I don't know the answer to the 12" vs. 15" question, I thought they were all double 12" woofers. The one in the picture next to PWK looks like it would be small enough for double 12's. Are you building a pair of Jubilee bass bins?

A million bucks! Yeah, I could get it done too. Heck with building houses, let's go into the speaker business!

50 prepaid orders, yeah right, it won't happen.

That's it, I'm going to build a pair of Jubilees. It may be a while, since I have too many projects going right now, but I'm going to do it and see what all the fuss is about.

Greg

[Chris Robinson]

----------------

On 3/7/2005 6:27:17 AM greg928s4 wrote:

That's it, I'm going to build a pair of Jubilees.

Greg

----------------

You rock, Greg! Now THIS is going to be a fun project to watch!!

[Deang]

Greg is 3 steps ahead of me - slow down!! Don't beat me up too bad, but I want Klipsch's blessing on the project. We obviously can't sell or market it without their approval -- even to forum members.

I can build any network, and do a good job, but the design has to come from someone who actually knows how to add and subtract. We are even looking at the possibility of having to have a new horn designed for it. Something fancy with cardboard and staples like Al's building. Seriously though, if we don't get help from Klipsch -- every single step will have to be carefully thought out. Without Klipsch, we will obviously have to tap into the brain trust here (you know who they are).

[JohnA]

I heard all of the excuses about the Italian HF horns being too expensive and cracking. It I were doing it I'd at least TRY building one out of the pressure-filled epoxy laminates some modern gun stocks are made from. The material is designed not to crack or distort over time and with humidity changes. It is also designed to control vibrations. If you shot a rifle with some (most?) foam-filled fiberglass stocks, you'd see why. The glass stocks ring like a tuning fork. It machines a lot like wood. You can have most any colors you'd like.

[Daddy Dee]

Miss Valerie's Jubilee is the same one in the picture with Mr. Paul. I'll tell you, though, it looks bigger in person than in does in the picture. In fact, I'd thought it was so big it must have the twin 15's, but it is indeed the home twin 12 in version. Miss Valerie's Jubilee has a black composite horn, though, not the wooden horn in the picture. To my eye, it is still quite elegant in it's looks, and I'd consider the wooden horn a luxury option... Very cool,.. and completely elegant. but not essential to the overall package. IMO the black horn picks up on the black grill cloth nicely.

If Klipsch LLC were to find a way to sell the plans alone, with a DIY only license for use, that would get the design into the hands of the people who so deeply admire Mr. Paul. It would also be a compliment to Mr. Paul's design and certainly not without precedent. It is my understanding that Mr. Paul had some arrangements that allowed fabrication of his designs outside his own factory. Also, Klipsch has got the necessary muscle to make sure that Jubilee builders do not sell these for profit. Klipsch already is handling issues like this with unauthorized distributors that pop up on Ebay and other venues.

[ben.]

OK, I must have been on something. For some reason, I thought they were twin 15"s.

I agree with the sentiment that this be done above-board if possible. You'd think that Klipsch would like to see horns built that reflect PWK's intent and will find some way to accomodate the obvious, though small scale, demand for his masterwork.

[Daddy Dee]

----------------

On 3/7/2005 3:55:14 PM ben. wrote:

OK, I must have been on something. For some reason, I thought they were twin 15"s.

----------------

Yep, it sure is what I thought, too. Makes the authority of that design all the more impressive. I'd like to hear the pro version bass bin, too. However, if Mr. Paul had thought the twin 15's were necessary to the home version Jubilee, they'd be in there for sure.

[seti]

I have heard it mentioned that Klipsch doesn't sell that many khorns/heritage line to warrent more investment. But how much new marketing/advertising is going on for the heritage line? What would happen if they did invest more in marketing? More sales perhaps? Or is the heritage destined to coast slowly into the sunset. There are more expensive horn loaded speakers out there selling for alot more than khorns so there is obviously a market and price is not the limiting factor in sales.

Perhaps I am just a ramantic but it would be great to see an agressive marketing campaign on the heritage line and what would be a better way to do that than one of PWK's last designs as the flagship designed and built in Hope, AR. The Jubilee built in Hope now that would be cool.

[sunnysal]

Greg, what do you mean the jubile is "right there"??? if you mean the jubilee pro bass bin I have no reason to believe it has anything to do with the jubilee home version other than the name...do you have other information/indications? regards, tony

[Colin]

Thanks for the post Daddydee, now I want oneerr, two!

Hard to imagine something better than upgraded Klipsch corner Khorns

Why is the home version Jubilee better? The double 12 bass? Is it still corner loaded? Which horn is used?

Is the bass bin for the professional theater Jubilee the same as the home version?

What are the specs?

Why doesnt Klipsch have a $10 or 15K state of the art showpiece?

Maybe they should simply publish the plans, like Nelson Pass did with the F1 amplifier!

What drivers are in the AK-4? How is that crossover different than my AK-2?

Yeah, but the Viper is gorgeous, roomy and beefy looking compared to a Vette

The Trio is not only a gorgeous loudspeaker, but sounds incredibly flawless on small group or orchestral music-

I thought the home Jubilee was the prototype for the professional Jubilee and the home version will never be made-

Lets see, Klipsch will make pairs for $20K, Ben will make them for 10K, OK, I will take ONE from Ben for $5K, or upgrade my horns to Altecs, add anew crossover and a more more powerful subwoofer and save $3K

[3dzapper]

Pro Jubilee specs:

KPT-904-HF

FREQUENCY RESPONSE: 600Hz -19kHz±4dB

SENSITIVITY: 111dB @ 1 watt/1 meter

POWER HANDLING: 50 watts (20V) 800Hz - 8kHz

CALC MAX CONTINUOUS OUTPUT: 128dB

COVERAGE ANGLE: Horizontal 80° ±20° 800Hz-16kHz

Vertical 40° ±20° 1.5kHz-19kHz

DIRECTIVITY INDEX (DI): 8dB ±1dB 1kHz-8kHz

NOMINAL IMPEDANCE: 8 ohms, 7.8 ohms minimum at 2.5kHz

TRANSDUCERS: One K-510 horn using one 3" KDE-75-8P titanium diaphragm compression driver

DIMENSIONS: 11.75" (29.9cm) x 15.125" (38.4cm) x 10" (25.4cm)

WEIGHT: 21 lbs. (9.5kg)

KPT-KHJ-LF

FREQUENCY RESPONSE: 45Hz - 1kHz±4dB

SENSITIVITY: 105dB @ 1 watt/1 meter

POWER HANDLING: 400 watts (40.5V) 40Hz - 800Hz

CALC MAX CONTINUOUS OUTPUT: 128dB

COVERAGE ANGLE: Horizontal 90° ±20° 200Hz-1kHz

Vertical 90° ±20° 200Hz-1kHz

DIRECTIVITY INDEX (DI): 6dB ±2dB 200Hz-1kHz

NOMINAL IMPEDANCE: 8 ohms, 4.1 ohms minimum at 120Hz

TRANSDUCERS: Two K-1080-KP 15" woofers

DIMENSIONS: 39.75" (100.9cm) x 41.5" (105.4cm) x 24.25" (61.6cm)

WEIGHT: 180 lbs. (81.7kg)

KPT-XII

FREQUENCY RESPONSE: 150Hz - 1.3kHz±4dB

SENSITIVITY: 105dB @ 1 watt/1 meter

POWER HANDLING: 250 watts (42V) 150Hz - 1.5kHz

CALC MAX CONTINUOUS OUTPUT: 128dB

COVERAGE ANGLE: Horizontal 90° ±20° 250Hz-3kHz

Vertical 50° ±20° 600Hz-3kHz

DIRECTIVITY INDEX (DI): 7dB ±2dB 200Hz-1.5kHz

NOMINAL IMPEDANCE: 8 ohms, 7 ohms minimum at 180Hz

TRANSDUCERS: One K-150 horn and one K-425-KP 12" woofer

DIMENSIONS: 26.75" (67.9cm) x 42" (106.7cm) x 23" (58.4cm)

WEIGHT: 128 lbs. (58.1kg)

45 Hz -4Db is not significantly different from a Belle or a LaScala and not up to Khorn standards. A more compliant woofer might subtract a couple of Hz but, IMO unless there are ports, with their own set of problems, 20-30Hz are out of the question.

A 400Hz Tracix horn with a full range driver and a Belle or Khorn would be a better bet for Klipsch I think.

Rick

[Daddy Dee]

Colin,

The Jubilee is not corner loaded like Khorn. Corners are not required. It is a simpler bass bin and is of about the width of a Khorn with false corners added on.

The pro version Jubilee has twin 15's. haven't heard it to compare, but to my ears, the home version would be hard to imagine being better. Perhaps the pro version is "better" in the sense that it can load a larger room.

On the AK4 Khorns, I think they use the K-55-X mid driver. Not sure what is on the top end. I'd like to hear the bad boys.

[greg928gts]

Daddy Dee, do you know what mid horn and driver you heard at Miss Valerie's? Does anyone know for sure what mid horn and driver are considered THE ones that are part of the Jubilee speaker? I doubt there is an official mid horn for the Jubilee.

Tony, what I mean is that IF the Jubilee is in fact better than a Khorn, then it is certainly due to two things. One, the bass horn that has a wider bandwidth, and two, the fact that it's a two-way design. I hear some people saying that they'd pony up $15K for a pair of Jubilees if Klipsch would just make them. Well it's right there as far as I'm concerned. Buy a pair of Jubilee bass bins and find a horn and crossover network for them. A little veneer, a little oil, and there you have it. I bet it would cost less than $15K. I just don't think that too many people really would put up the money. If they were really game, they'd do what I suggest above.

Frankly, I think I'd rather have the dual 15's, the larger midbass horn, and a high end horn. I love the idea of lowering the frequency response of the mid horn rather than raising the response of the bass horn. This is sort of what I'm experimenting with in my own system. With a lower response mid horn, in a biamp system, more midrange information comes from the amplifiers used on the upper horns. The use of very high quality sounding amplifiers that are not necessarily very powerful will work well in this situation because they are not being asked to produce the power-hungry bass notes. The bass bins are left to produce just bass and more power can be used to boost the bass output without boosting the low-mid frequencies at the same time. I just think it's a better balance, at least for the way I like to listen to my music. I could go on but I'll stop.

Anyone know how much that 3-way industrial Jubilee system costs? How does one find out the cost?

I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that there's already a bass horn design out there that is very similar to the Jubilee. That would mean a Jubilee clone could be built without the Klipsch blessing.

Greg