Erik Mandaville Posted May 24, 2005 Author Share Posted May 24, 2005 ...and Paul: If you would, please advise me on the proper amplifier to use with our Klipschorns. In addition to that, if you would explain the reasoning behind your selection, as well as in what specific ways it would be an improvement over what I'm using right now, I would appreciate it. Also, please provide working defintions for your recent carefully chosen words, "hyperdetailed" and "hyperrealism" What exactly do you mean, and how will those change with a different amplifier? Lets forget headphones for a moment, but we can get back to them later if you like. Thanks again, Erik edit! oops, you already have mentioned what you think about naturally reproduced music. Sheesh, why didn't I see this before -- you ARE a subtle one, Parrot! I see, real music is neither very detailed nor very real-sounding. Alright, I think I understand, now. So, we use klipschorns because they help promote a lack of detail, or at least not very much detail, as well as because they sound rather unrealistic, just like natural music. Ok, I'm clear! please disregard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 You're having so much fun talking to yourself and interpreting me, I'm not sure if I should step in. First, headphones are fine to use if you don't want to disturb someone else, and also if you want to catch some fine detail. But one can hear too much detail. Think of an orchestra in which all the instruments are close-miked. The resulting recording might be interesting, but it would not be realistic. You need the sound waves traveling through air and interacting with a room to get that. Another way to hear too much detail is to use headphones, when you might hear the master tape scraping over the playback head or hear a splice or edit, for example, that would be missed if you heard it over speakers with the sound traveling through the air. Plus, the soundstage of heaphones is lousy compared to speakers. Hyperdetail simply means too much detail. Hyperrealism simply means you can go overboard on realism to a point where it isn't at all real sounding anymore. Think of, say, if a recording picked up every rustle of clothing of the players of an orchestra. That would be too much info! It's also too much info when you have headphones on and hear all sorts of tiny things that normally would be masked. And headphones tend to bring instruments too forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 I think you could just about knock me over with a feather, as I am in a state of shock and disbelief that the Parrot actually answered a direct question! Pretty lame answers, but perhaps that explains a lot of past posting habits... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 Shouldn't you be off somewhere listening to your Pat Metheny records? Anyway, Erik, before I was so rudely interrupted, you asked about amps. You went to great lengths earlier to explain why you don't want to change anything, so I would advise that you not change anything. Although, I must confess, I would not trust any amp called a "Moth." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 ---------------- On 5/24/2005 6:41:51 PM Parrot wrote: Shouldn't you be off somewhere listening to your Pat Metheny records? ---------------- Yes, I should. Unfortunately I'm collecting my salary while reading your usual drivel. Could be better, could be worse. How narrow of a mind does it take to try (twice now) to insult someone by noting that they listen to Pat Metheny?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 I suffered through a Pat Metheny concert around 1980. I was bored almost to tears by the time the first number was over. I guess I've been to worse concerts in my life, although I can't think of one right off the top of my head. I just find it amusing that you are so enamored of him and his "mood music." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 ---------------- On 5/24/2005 6:41:51 PM Parrot wrote: Anyway, Erik, before I was so rudely interrupted..... ---------------- That's really a hoot! I really am having a hard time keeping in line with the forum policy dictating that I can't call you names. You're really making this hard on me. Maybe we should go back to our little PM game! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 I understand your frustration. You haven't matured since your playground days, when calling someone a name made you feel like a tough guy. Since you are hopelessly outclassed when it comes to making intelligent arguments, of course you are going to mimic your Forum hero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 Again you display your ignorance of all but a narrow segment of music. Which "mood" would that be? All his records must sound like the concert you saw 25 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 ---------------- On 5/24/2005 6:53:11 PM Parrot wrote: I understand your frustration. You haven't matured since your playground days, when calling someone a name made you feel like a tough guy. Since you are hopelessly outclassed when it comes to making intelligent arguments, of course you are going to mimic your Forum hero.---------------- Paul, really, you've got to stop. I may get a customer, and they'd wonder why I'm laughing to myself and shaking my head... It's really just that so many wonderfully derogatory names spring to mind when get yourself all wound up and in full LPB mode! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Landau Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 I can't believe that I've just read the whole thread............... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 ---------------- On 5/24/2005 6:55:40 PM Guy Landau wrote: I can't believe that I've just read the whole thread............... ---------------- At it's best, it's better entertainment than TV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 Me too. I now have a headache. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 Don't blame the thread. It's that 120dB headbanger music you listen to all day, catching up to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 I wonder what is Paul's opinion of Ornette Coleman's "Skies of America" at 100-105 db? I doubt 3 watts would do it justice even on Khorns. And it would be just plain SILLY to listen to this through headphones. But I doubt Paul has ever HEARD "Skies of America," so I guess it's just another silly question posed near the end of a VERY silly thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 You're right, haven't heard that, but I do have Coleman playing on Yoko Ono/Plastic Ono Band. Now there's a woman who can sing circles around Helen Merrill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 CORRECT AGAIN! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Mandaville Posted May 24, 2005 Author Share Posted May 24, 2005 Paul: (I'm not talking to myself, I'm trying to explain specific things about which you either commented on or asked). Ok, now we're getting somewhere with this. So, you now seem to understand I'm using headphones on weeknights when my wife and like like to spend some time with each other after a tiring day, and she would rather watch TV than listen to music. I have to confess, too, that I will sometimes listen to headphones very early on weekend mornings. I get up early to work on projects, but my wife sleeps later. Sometimes I would just rather sort of meditate and/or listen to music than tinker with old clocks and electronics. Headphones are perfect for that. I used to listen to my old Atwater Kent and radiola horns speaker, thinking that it couldn't be heard downstairs, which turned out not to be the case. I have another radio on the way that I am thrilled about, and was built carefully by hand by a friend. An all tube regenerative receiver, it WILL have a headphone jack for old-fashioned, high impedance headphones!!! About the tape hiss issue? Are you saying that one is not able to identify master tape hiss with Klipschorns? I don't know about your specific speakers, but I have quite a number of recordings -- old recordings of Segovia come to mind -- where that comes through very clearly. I agree with you it isn't a musical sound, but it doesn't bother me, just as pops and clicks when listening to vinyl didn't bother me very much. I certainly don't agree that tape hiss, as one example, can only be heard with headphones. Once again, I hope you will acknowledge the fact that I use headphones when I don't want to disturb other people, regardless of some of the possible 'constraints' or limitations they may bring to a listening session. Good headphones are capable of extremely good sound reproduction, and for the investment are amazing. You still haven't responded to my question about the right amplifier I should be using for our Klipschorns, Paul. Our room is roughly 16 X 21 X 10. When we had the Klipschorns in the corners of the long wall, they seemed to excite the room in a way that wasn't good. They sound much better on the shorter wall, although I of course can't argue that bass response my be down a bit because of not being sealed into the corners. Overall, however, we both agree that they sound much better on the shorter wall. Tell me what amp you think I should use,as well as how it will sound different from our low-power triode amps. I can build a 6L6-based PP amp using reasonably good parts for about $275. I've already got the schematic! Based on what you have indicated, it seems what I should be looking for is an amp that sounds less detailed and realistic than any of the SET amps I have? Can that be right? Some how I think you really don't care what I listen to, Paul, nor does it matter to me what you prefer to use to feed your Klipschorns. People can sit down together for dinner and order completely different meals, and I submit the same might be true for how we each like to listen to music. In the first instance, the common thread is the food, conversation and friendship, in the second that music is being enjoyed by way of speakers that continue to sound as amazing now as they did 50 years ago. In these past years, please refer to even one time I said I thought you were ignorant or somehow uninformed with regard to your choice of something so individually based as an audio amplifier? I do remember indicating that I absolutely noticed how higher power reduced that sort of elongated reproduction of bass notes you mentioned -- do you recall that. I agreed with you, and have mentioned positive things about a number of higher powered tube amps on this forum many times since then. I worked on a $250 Baldwin 6L6 amp that stopped me in my tracks when I first tested it! I also recently repaired a design based on the ST-70 from Dynaco -- triode connected -- that was stunning, but I will say a little bright on the top compared to a single-ended 2A3 triode. It was still extremely good sounding to me. Shall we continue? I'd be happy to, but want at least half an hour with the Sennheisers and Moth this evening! Erik Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 How bad is this one, Allan? http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?style=music&bab=E&pid=6667581&cart=249310742 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted May 24, 2005 Share Posted May 24, 2005 ---------------- On 5/20/2005 7:35:13 PM Erik Mandaville wrote: Hi, Paul: "Do you still have your Klipschorns away from the corners? I can't remember for sure but I think somewhere I heard or read that you'll get better bass from Klipschorns if they are in corners." Yes. I have learned from reading many important hi fi audio-related magazines that we should pull our speakers far out into the listening room. When you do that, the sound from doing that is much better than how the sound sounds when you do not do that. The industry is known for promoting this fact, and things like soundstage and images sound better two. I have used my measuring tape, and so I know that the bass response is lower two. Erik ---------------- Ha...I just got it,very funny. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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