Multi-amp shootout at Tony´s house featuring the Teac A-L700P

[sunnysal]

I have now spent the better part of four weeks listening to an unmodified Teac A-L700P in my main system, my HT system and my patio system. I compared them with my current JFL PP DHT amp, Dynaco MkIVs, Esotec SM-6, Leok´s 6 watt Tripath amp and my McIntosh MA6400 integrated. I had friends over to help with the equipment swaps and listening session, Here are the results:

1. Main system

In my main system the Teac did remarkably well, it had decent extension in the treble and bass, very even frequency response, decent slam and more than enough power to drive the k-horns beyond comfortable listening levels. I felt (and almost all of my buddies agreed) it was bested by all the other amps tried (though some thought it was better than the LeoK and Esotec);

The JFL maybe gave up a tad of slam in the bass to the Teac and Dynaco (though I could not be sure about this, nor could my friends) but won hands done in upper mids and treble clarity and extension, this was a surprise. The JFL also had an overall warmth everyone found pleasing as well as an airiness in the top end that seemed more realistic, like the live event. It had a big, wide soundstage. The JFL was considered the best amp for extended listening to the widest variety of music.

The Dynaco mkIVs once again showed how great they are, especially when dragged of a box im my closet to fight with all the others. This was the second favorite amp of the entire group in my main system. The slam factor was there as was a great mid range and treble. The top seems to roll off just ever so slightly, or slightly less airy compared to the JFL but was nice and smooth up top. Big, wide soundstage.

The Mcintosh seemed to be the Teac, only perfected. It shared the same even sound, clarity and extension BUT upped the slam factor by an order of magnitude (it was the slam king out of the 5) it also seems to go both lower and higher than most others. It only fell behind the JFL and Dynaco in the midrange and treble where it did not seem to have all the body and air of the two tubes units. Slight smaller soundstage but everyone loved the sound though.

The Marantz Esotec SM-6 had big bass, a smooth, nicely warm midrange and a smooth, non-grating treble. It seemed rolled off a bit in the highs and was somewhat slow in the bass. It also seemed to sound just a bit congested or confused when complex loud passages came in the music. It did however have a nice big soundstage. It fell way behind in the airiness factor and seemed by some to sound a bit lifeless.

With the LeoK 6 watt Tripath people really liked the clarity of this amp, the even frequency response and the top end extension. However it lacked slam and the soundstage was pretty reduced compared to the others. It also seemed to lack warmth. It did the airiness thing in spades and seemed to have a really open, easy treble. At loud volumes it seemed to get a bit strident compared to the tube units (and the McIntosh) and clipped in an ugly way BUT hell it is a 6 watt amp.

The Teac I think suffered from the jack of all trades syndrome. It sounded VERY good in all aspects of playing music. It played loud. It played the top end and low ends with good extension. It had a very even frequency response. I had decent slam in the bass. But it seemed to lack some of the airiness of the tube amps, its soundstage was among the smallest of the group and it had less life in the sound produced than most. It seemed to separate less the instruments when playing a given piece than the JFL for example and did not have the warmth of any of the tubes amps. It was an extremely competent amp however and no one could say it had any flaws, just shortcomings in specific areas when directly compared to the other amps.

2. Patio system

The order was pretty much maintained except that the LeoK could not play very loud on the patio speakers (Klipsch SA-2). The differences between the amps was very hard to note on the patio and, in the end, we decided that virtually any amp with balls sounded pretty much the same out there. The Esotec was pointed out by some to sound much better in the patio system then in the main system. The JFL was the fave again.

3. HT

I combined these amps with my NAD surround sound receiver, replacing the front left and right channels only, the speakers were inefficient ribbon tweeter speaker from Aurum Cantus here are the results:

The McIntosh was the favorite in this arena, it had tremendous slam, clarity and extension. It made movies sound great and made the speakers jump. It also sounded best when music was played on the HT system. Easily and unanimously the winner here.

The Esotec did well, it still lacked some life compared with the McIntosh, and at lower volumes did not seem as extended but it had the balls to play movies and sounded good with music. I think this amp likes inefficient speakers, it likes to get into the middle of its wattage rating to give its best. This amp was placed just above the Teac by a little more then half the group (I suspect because it had more power reserves).

The Teac sounded just like it did in the main and patio systems, it was clear and extended and had decent slam, it could play loud (strange we did not get it to clip even though it had far less power then the others amps above it). I felt it was better sounding than the Esotec and came very close in sound to the McIntosh but I was in the minority. This amp only was a smidge behind due to its lower power output in my demanding HT system. It sounded VERY good a lower volumes. I would have placed it second.

The JFL and LeoK did not have enough umph to get these speakers jumping. The JFL sounded great as far as it went but it was a poor match for this system and is not a HT amp!

Well, this has gotten so long that I feel bad about adding details like music and movies played and additional details about the amp´s various technologies and more about ancillary equipment (cables, sources, preamps, etc.). but I wanted to post the thoughts that me and my buddies put together during these geeky test/listening sessions.

IMHO the Teac is an amazing amp for the money. I suspect that with some tweaking it could sound even better. It is currently powering my patio speakers.

Best Regards,

Tony

[D-MAN]

Tony! Don't stop now! Sheesh, just when it was getting good!

DM

[franczyk]

Thanks! Reviews like that are the best, because there isnt much reason for you to be biased one way or another, and it gives us a good idea of how these amps sound in comparison to each other....

Thanks again. I wish there were more shootout reviews.

[Daddy Dee]

Sunny,

Thanks for the review.

I think your description resonates with my Teac experience.

Some time back, I think you discussed the DHT. Of course, I've had an attack of amnesia and can't locate the thread. Would you say more about that? It's 2A3 PP, but to what does the DHT refer?

[3dzapper]

Good show tony!

There is a problem with your review. It seem that you are biased toward your amp. You seem to like your's best.-)

DHT- Direct Heated Triode 45,2A3,300B, ect.

[sunnysal]

Thanks for the comments guys,

d-man - I will post more details if people express interest in it, but I suspect that what is there is enough for most...

franczyk - I too love shootouts, IMHO they are better than just auditioning things. I had listened to the Teac in my system for a full week before my buddies showed up for the shootout, I was convinced it was as good any anything I had, but once we got down to business and started swapping amps the small differences showed up and helped put each amp in perspective. I wish audio mags did shootouts just like the car mags do with automobiles.

Dee - I will ask jeff to post a short description of the amp he built for me, zapper explained what DHT stands for.

Zapper - What a surprise huh that I loved my amp!? I waited a LONG time to get the amp of my dreams, and the JFL is IT (unless you count the Seth, lol). In all seriousness everyone who came to the shootout liked the JFL the best. Some guys wanted to go home and get their amps (Levinson, Krell, Cary and VAC) to include in the shootout but I asked them to limit themselves to my amps for this session. Those amps have already been in my system, some for shootouts before (I posted the Krell versus Dynaco and JFL shootout, I think, last year). perhaps I will do another shootout before the end of the year AFTER I have a chance to tweak up the Teac and/or buy the Seth from Jeff (I can dream can´t I?).

Warm regards, Tony

[bkrop]

There is certainly a lot of talk about "shooting" down San Salvador way...

[sunnysal]

well...it´s a fact of life, and death, down here...sad but true. regards, tony

[Painful Reality]

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On 4/15/2005 9:12:47 PM sunnysal wrote:

Dee - I will ask jeff to post a short description of the amp he built for me, zapper explained what DHT stands for.

----------------

Here it is...

Your PP2A3 is a rather simple class AB design able to deliver a whooping 10W.

It was mostly inspired by a design I did many moons ago. Being a transformer freak, an iron was taking care of the phase splitting duties. It's rather simple to implement and, providing the interstage transformer is of really good quality, the sonic results are excellent.

The driver was as simple as it can get, two halves of a 6SN7 operating in parallel to lower the output impedance of the driver stage.

Here is the schematic.

By the way, I'm glad you still enjoy this PP 2A3! And don't you ever sell the wood crate I built for this amp...

[Chris Robinson]

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On 4/15/2005 9:12:47 PM sunnysal wrote:

I waited a LONG time to get the amp of my dreams, and the JFL is IT (unless you count the Seth, lol). Perhaps I will do another shootout before the end of the year AFTER I have a chance to tweak up the Teac and/or buy the Seth from Jeff (I can dream can´t I?).

Warm regards, Tony

----------------

Tony, that about sums up my experience with JFL designs and build quality. The top shelf of the top shelf. Thoughtful, intelligent designs painstakingly executed.

I hope someone thoughtful and intelligent scoops up those SETH amps and pre-. They are very likely to be that person's LAST amps.

Chris

[fini]

Nice review, Tony!

Was this done over a few days, or all in one? Your back must be killing you!

Could you please describe for me (again) any mods or updates (driver/cap boards, etc.) to the Dynaco MkIVs? I am hoping the dust settles enough here so that I can at least start thinking about (and buying parts for) mine. Thanks!

[sunnysal]

Thanks for the kind words.

Jeff, that crate is VERY safe in a closet and thanks for the great amp, I think of you often while enjoying my music!

Fini, the shootou took place over two nights, we could not get it done in one. re: the dynaco amp; the MkIV was not really modded, ciruit-wise the Selenium rectifier was replaced by SS diodes and the caps were refreshed with Sprague orange drops, some resistors with modern type. The "mods" were new input and output jacks (good RCAs and five-way binding posts), and I had a switch installed that allows me to go from Pentode UL to Triode mode whenever I want (very easy to do, it just switches in a 10watt resistor between two output tube pins and disconnects another pin).

I forgot to mention that I have not gotten around to rebuilding the Esotec amp since it is a room heater I fully expect that the caps have dried out by now, leaving itat a disadvantage to the other amps in the shootout. I think once that unit has new caps, some new resistors and perhaps a tweak or two in the PS section it should be a GREAT SS amp...someday I will get around to it.

warm regards, tony

[Audio Flynn]

The Dynaco mkIVs once again showed how great they are, especially when dragged of a box im my closet to fight with all the others. This was the second favorite amp of the entire group in my main system. The slam factor was there as was a great mid range and treble. The top seems to roll off just ever so slightly, or slightly less airy compared to the JFL but was nice and smooth up top. Big, wide soundstage.

+++++++++

Are the Dynacos stock or what updates do you have in them?

[sunnysal]

flynn read one post above. regards, tony

[Deang]

I guess it's time for me to come out of the closet: The Teac, like the Sonic Impact -- is a bare bones, least you can do it with design. To hear what this technology is capable of when implemented in a more serious fashion -- try the QSC PLX-1602, or one of the Carver Pro Z Series amplifiers. Having tried both, I preferred the QSC. QSC doesn't use Tripath, but it is a "switcher". These amps are insanely clean and open, and completely redefine "grain free". No conventional solid state, or tube amp I've ever heard does a better job of getting out of the way.

[Erukian]

For those of you who do have tube amps, which does the Teac sound more like? A tube or a SS or does it meet in the middle somewhere?

I've only really heard SS, and to me, the Teac sounded much smoother than any SS while keeping the power in the bass but eliminating the grainy highs.

I'd assume that the only thing the teac lacks is the warm/bloomy distortion that you get with tube amps.

-Joe

[Deang]

I don't think it sounds much like either.

[sunnysal]

I would have to go with dean, it sounds different than both. More like a SS with an improved transparency and smoother treble IMHO. not warm enough to be tubes. I have been tempted to try those pro digital amps BUT now I am saving my pennies for a Seth...anyone out there want a hugh crate of audio goodies? $2,500 exactly. tony

[leok]

Tony,

Thanks for including the P6D in your review collection. One thing I had tried to do early on with the amp was to loan it to various people so we could use it as a common reference for discussing audio qualities of various amplifier technologies and topologies. That use never quite worked out.

The comparisons and discussions that have taken place on this forum in the past few weeks have been very much what I was looking for then (before I had built either of the no-feedback tube amps).

I am finding that there is a lot of similarity in how people, including me, perceive the behavior of various digital amps in relation to medium quality ss, and various tube topologies.

Isn't it curious that one still hears the phrase: "All amplifiers sound the same." I guess if speakers are bad enough that might be true.

Leo

[sunnysal]

I think you are right Leo, to say "all amps sound the same" HAS to be a reflection on one´s speakers and rest of the audio chain. I think "all components sound different" is truer!

BTW after the shootout, I loaned the LeoK amp to one of the guys to use in his office system with a pair of Lowthers in small ported cabinets, and he is loving it! Six watts of really clean, clear sound from that baby!

Regards, Tony